Sonic Forces - Story Trailer (English and Japanese)

[Clewis]

But seriously, this trailer was one of the first things related to Forces that didn't instantly have me rolling my eyes. I mean, there's still a large (LARGE) chance the game's plot will end up being incredibly dumb like in most Sonic games, but at least the way the trailer itself was edited made me slightly more interested in seeing how it plays out, so good on you for that, Sonic Team.

Although I will say I'm tired of having Fist Bump regularly shoved in my face. Please stop it. It sounds stupid.

30 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Really? That's the worst thing about that shot?

[Chaos Control Freak]

Just now, Lord-Dreamerz said:

No they don't. Modern Sonic levels so far are little more them empty hallway simulators. And Classic Sonic levels so far are far worse then they were in Generations. Much more flat land masses and extra automated to a Dimps degree.

Yeah, they do. They look absolutely fine. We've seen about a grand total of, what, like, 3 minutes of footage out of Modern and Classic's stages. There's nothing particularly offensive about them. They just haven't shown us a whole lot.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Classic green hill is eh (there's not a whole lot that you actually do), the other stages aren't really worse than the standard for this type of Sonic game though. They're just really compact and short, which leads me to believe there's a lot of them.

[Chaos Control Freak]

4 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Classic green hill is eh (there's not a whole lot that you actually do), the other stages aren't really worse than the standard for this type of Sonic game though. They're just really compact and short, which leads me to believe there's a lot of them.

Absolutely.

My two big worries, at this point, are the Custom Character's gameplay and the length of the game. Really hoping it's not super short.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

10 hours ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

There's nothing particularly offensive about them.

Zhahaa haa!.... No... Lots of whats been shown of the gameplay of Forces has been some of the worse/dullest level design by Sonic Team for a good while. Even Lost World had more interesting level design half the time. Here... go read few pages of this topic. A lot of people (and I don't mean just people here) don't think the levels shown so far look all that hot.

 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

I saw several people making cracks about how his inclusion in the game's actual story doesn't make sense. Which isn't true. It's also not "slapshot". The events of Sonic Mania clearly have a direct and substantial impact Forces' story. That's about as far from "slapshot" as you can get, honestly.

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Sure, Classic Sonic's gameplay isn't accurate to the original Genesis games. But, it's still fun and offers variety.

If you're talking about this thread specifically than no you haven't. Everyone here, at least, has been highlighting that his inclusion  is just wholly unnecessary. When they ask "What is he doing here?" they're asking that in a real-world sense, not based on anything the in-game story says. The events of Mania might have an substantial impact on Forces's story but I have serious doubts that it'll be written in a way that'll make Classic Sonic's presence feel as though this game absolutely needed him. If anything it'll be a completely tertiary thing that'd have worked even better had it been made to be something from the dimension they're already in. It certainly won't be anything that'll be as far from slapshot as you can get. 

I don't care if his gameplay isn't accurate to the Original Genesis games as I'm not really a fan of the classics. I don't really find it all that fun and I don't need this kind of "variety". There's no reason why they should have felt the need to shoehorn his gameplay into this product when Mania managed to get high marks focusing on being what it was. Instead of allowing this 3D Sonic game to be what it needs to be, they pushed for Classic Sonic to be in it because they're under the impression that if Classic Sonic's gameplay is around the reviewers will be nice to them for it. It reeks of forced corporate synergy. His inclusion in Generations was built around a concept that at the time worked because of what they were trying to do by merging the two styles together for the 20th anniversary. That entire game was build from the ground up to support that premise. Just like Colors was built to be a vehicle for the wisps.

This pattern they're doing of taking the thing that was given praise from the previous games and shoving them into the next one just makes it look like a mish-mash of ideas that don't go well together. That's why the wisps in Lost World were a completely sloppy after-thought (and in some cases a huge liability). 

This game feels like it's actually about Sonic and the fan character teaming up to take on Eggman. So do the game like that. It'd save the developers the headache of also trying to find ways to fit in Classic Sonic levels and forcing in a 2D perspective in a game that really should have been the pure 3D action-adventure platformer to compliment Mania being a pure 2D sidescroller for the 25th anniversary.

As it stands it's just a really bloated and ugly sore thumb that's getting more and more annoying and harder to look at. This game would feel undoubtedly less confused if he were gone. 

[Chaos Control Freak]

5 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Zhahaa haa!.... No... Lots of whats been shown of the gameplay of Forces has been some of the worse/dullest level design by Sonic Team for a good while. Even Lost World had more interest level design half the time. Here... go read few pages of this topic. A lot of people (and I don't mean just people here) don't think the levels shown so far look all that hot.

 

Eh. If you say so.

I'll probably end up enjoying them just fine.

[KHCast]

40 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Also a quick note regarding Classic Sonic, yes he's obviously just there because people like Mania and Generations, but also I don't care because his levels can still be fun anyway.

Even if they're good, it once again just shows that his gameplay is a lazy crutch for sega to fall back on because of a lack of confidence in themselves. That I think is the problem and why many people DO care 

[Chaos Control Freak]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Even if they're good, it once again just shows that his gameplay is a lazy crutch for sega to fall back on because of a lack of confidence in themselves. That I think is the problem and why many people DO care 

Or, ya know.... They just felt like doing it...?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So Eggman had more input in Infinite's development than just "find monster, use it to conquer the world." Now that I can get behind more than the usual Monster of the Week they've done in past games. The way the trailer has it, it almost makes one think Eggman created Infinite, which would be better if true.

The presentation is better here. Makes me think they might actually pull this story off, and I really hope they do...now they have to explain Classic Sonic beyond a marketing clutch. And Shadow and Chaos on the bad guy's side, but there's still a lot of unknowns.

Ironic this is garnering a much more positive light given all the reveals. 

[Dr. Detective]

I still love the fuck out of this trailer. It's just really putting into perspective just how right my initial reaction to the Forces trailer was upon seeing Classic Sonic.

Super sweaty hype followed by immediate anger and disappointment. 

Seriously, it'd have been better if Modern Sonic actually got hit by the building in the Reveal trailer. It would have been funnier and he'd have been fine. He's survived worse. 

[KHCast]

5 minutes ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

Or, ya know.... They just felt like doing it...?

They felt like needlessly including classic sonic for no real reason, bad mimic gameplay and all, despite the fact Mania already exists to give Classic fans something. Sure sounds much more believable than doing it simply because people liked it in Gens, sega is on a nostalgia high, and it was easy assets to carry over and fill the game up more.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

16 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Even if they're good, it once again just shows that his gameplay is a lazy crutch for sega to fall back on because of a lack of confidence in themselves. That I think is the problem and why many people DO care 

See and I think that's assuming a lot. I mean, how is it any more of a crutch than the custom character, or hell, even modern Sonic when compared to the rest? Because one type of gameplay has been around longer? He doesn't move a whole lot slower than the rest do in 2D. It doesn't seem to take less effort to make one type of level, otherwise they'd focus solely on that which is seemingly most efficient, right? It's not like this entire game is only classic Sonic, it seems like he's more an afterthought than a crutch. Like, they realized classic did big halfway through making their Sonic-and-Avatar game, and sprinkled classic on top, rather than they had a Sonic-and-Avatar game, realized they needed more to it, and stuffed it full of classic levels.

Do you get what I'm saying here? The werehog is slow as shit, so even though his levels take a hell of a long time to finish, their size compares interestingly with regular Sonic. He was used to pad out the game, and the devs themselves admitted to it. Classic Sonic's levels are both as long and as big as modern Sonic and the Avatar, and he doesn't take much more time to traverse them. I'm not saying I agree with his inclusion (though again, I honestly don't mind it since he's fun), just that if this is really a crutch or padding tool, then it'd actually occupy more of the game time, wouldn't it?

[KHCast]

I mean, I'm not a fan of the CaC either, and would prefer a standalone 3D game, but it's the nature of the boost games. Alternate playstyles are needed to pad out the game to sega. Both CaC and Classic are padding, it's just in this situation, CaC is kinda promoted as the big special thing about Forces 

[Chaos Control Freak]

3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

They felt like needlessly including classic sonic for no real reason, bad mimic gameplay and all, despite the fact Mania already exists to give Classic fans something. Sure sounds much more believable than doing it simply because people liked it in Gens, sega is on a nostalgia high, and it was easy assets to carry over and fill the game up more.

The only assets I've seen being reused are Classic Sonic's model (which, Modern Sonic's model gets constantly recycled, so that's a moot point), and bits of Green Hill. The Ruined City's looking pretty fresh and new. So's that factory within the pyramid, in the Tag Team level.

[Spooky Mulder]

 

52 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

On top of that the environments as a whole are still bland and lifeless as fuck. Seriously just compare the future city from Forces:

To Grand Metropolis from Heroes:

Mise en scène really does matter SEGA. Figure it out already.

Call me crazy but I kind of think that might be Grand Metropolis...

Act 2 of Grand Metropolis was Power Plant so maybe this has something to do with the "Chemical Plant" referenced during in-stage dialogue. I know we all assumed it was either a throwaway line or meant CPZ is in the game, but maybe something else is going on here.

[KHCast]

I'm referring to classics gameplay being unchanged outside the dropdash mainly 

[Chaos Control Freak]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

I'm referring to classics gameplay being unchanged outside the dropdash mainly 

Modern's looks mostly unchanged too, in relation to the other Hedgehog Engine games.... I'm not seeing the problem.

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

Modern's looks mostly unchanged too, in relation to the other Hedgehog Engine games.... I'm not seeing the problem.

And moderns still looks uninspired and disappointing too.(actually less interesting so far then Gens) Maybe not to you personally, like what you want, but people aren't being unreasonable for being unimpressed 

[Chaos Control Freak]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

And moderns still looks uninspired and disappointing too. Maybe not to you personally, like what you want, but people aren't being unreasonable for being unimpressed 

I'm reading less "being unimpressed" and more "I hate this, and this looks really bad", but okay.

I wanted them to return to the Boost Hedgehog Engine formula (which I think is the best Sonic's ever been in 3D), and they are. So, I'm a happy camper, personally.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

8 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean, I'm not a fan of the CaC either, and would prefer a standalone 3D game, but it's the nature of the boost games. Alternate playstyles are needed to pad out the game to sega. Both CaC and Classic are padding, it's just in this situation, CaC is kinda promoted as the big special thing about Forces 

Okay, but how is that in the Boost games' nature? Colors exists, and the wisps don't make the game take nearly as long as the werehog did. Most of them don't even really slow you down much more than a platforming section would, even in Unleashed. How in any way can you know for sure that the devs aren't designing these things because they actually want to put them in the game?

6 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I'm referring to classics gameplay being unchanged outside the dropdash mainly 

Well...yeah? Because that's how Classic Sonic tends to play. I know there are concerns about the physics, but I also am pretty sure none of that stuff got to Sega when Generations came out. Otherwise, what did you expect? If it was radically different, what would be the point of selling it as Classic Sonic?

1 minute ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

I'm reading less "being unimpressed" and more "I hate this, and this looks really bad", but okay.

Please do not say things like this. All-around loving Forces paints a target on you here to start with, does the sarcasm really improve things for you?

 

[Chaos Control Freak]

4 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Please do not say things like this. All-around loving Forces paints a target on you here to start with, does the sarcasm really improve things for you?

Not really concerned with "being a target" or "improving things for myself"... I'm just talking about Sonic, and how I honestly feel.

Wasn't trying to be sarcastic, in that instance.

[KHCast]

6 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Maybe not to you personally, like what you want

Apparently that doesn't mean anything I guess?

3 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Okay, but how is that in the Boost games' nature? Colors exists, and the wisps don't make the game take nearly as long as the werehog did. Most of them don't even really slow you down much more than a platforming section would, even in Unleashed. How in any way can you know for sure that the devs aren't designing these things because they actually want to put them in the game?

Well...yeah? Because that's how Classic Sonic tends to play. I know there are concerns about the physics, but I also am pretty sure none of that stuff got to Sega when Generations came out. Otherwise, what did you expect? If it was radically different, what would be the point of selling it as Classic Sonic?

Please do not say things like this. All-around loving Forces paints a target on you here to start with, does the sarcasm really improve things for you?

 

Personally I'd argue the wisps were the padding of colors as they were multiple different styles thrown throughout the game, and the game relied on their use in many stages.

and what? "What would be the point of classic sonic if it wasn't a flawed mimic? What did you expect? Improvements?"

[Chaos Control Freak]

Just now, KHCast said:

Apparently that doesn't mean anything I guess?

It does... Wut?

Just reiterating my feelings...

[Milo]

1 hour ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

Yeah, they do. They look absolutely fine. We've seen about a grand total of, what, like, 3 minutes of footage out of Modern and Classic's stages. There's nothing particularly offensive about them. They just haven't shown us a whole lot.

What exactly is fine about putting a dash panel inside what is an already automated tunnel? A automated gimmick placed in what is already an automated setpiece?

And that is just the tip of the iceberg of what are several questionable design decisions with the Classic Sonic Green Hill Zone stage.

I'm actually among those who thinks Classic Sonic's gameplay in Generations, while far from ideal Genesis gameplay, was still an enjoyable experience due to what I would consider satisfactory, if not particularly great, levels to play through. However, Classic Sonic's Forces gameplay for me doesn't look like it's even going to meet that standard at all (let alone be an improvement over Generations) if this Green Hill level is not only what the designers think is good Genesis Sonic level design, but is also what they decided would be the best level to represent the classic Sonic gameplay they have.

If you're personally not fussed either way about the complaints people have and are still looking forward to the game, that's absolutely fine. More power to you. At the same time though, if you're going to say there's nothing problematic about the Classic Sonic Green Hill level in this game, I'm afraid to say you're going to need some stronger arguments to explain your position.