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Do you think Knuckles and Tails should be able to use elemental shields powerups?


molul
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Been thinking about this for a long time. Insta-shield, back in the day, was really short compared to Knuckles' glide/climb and Tails' flying. This was compensated with only Sonic being able to user elemental shields powerups.

With the drop dash, Sonic feels balanced, but only Sonic being able to use the elemental shields powers seems a bit unfair now.

I think this would be great for future games:

-Press A button to jump.

-Press A button after jumping to:

  • Sonic: Drop Dash.
  • Tails: Fly.
  • Knuckles: Glide/Climb.

-Press B button after jumping to activate the elemental shields extra power.

Also, I'd give the normal shield the insta-shield extra power.

What do you think? It can't break the game. Actually, I think it balances the game.

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No they shouldn't. Elemental barrier powers are an extension of Sonic's insta shield and that belongs only to him. Tails and Knuckles already have abilities that deal with altitudes, these are Sonic's and they mesh completely with his playstyle, they are uniquely his. 

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Did you actually read the whole post? XD Elemental shields powers made sense as a Sonic exclusive to compensate Tails & Knuckles abilities (much better than insta-shield). Now, with drop-dash, I think Sonic is kinda OP compared to Tails & Knuckles. That's my point.

EDIT: also, Sonic has no insta-shield anymore, so your point feels a bit weak... Not to mention that "it's been always like this" is already weak as an argument. With that mentality, there would be no spindash, Tails fly, insta-shield, drop dash...

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The thing about Knuckles and Tails is that their abilities give them extra air mobility whereas Sonic never has any such tactics. The elemental shields give him an edge in air control that the other characters don't really need.

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7 minutes ago, molul said:

Did you actually read the whole post? XD Elemental shields powers made sense as a Sonic exclusive to compensate Tails & Knuckles abilities (much better than insta-shield). Now, with drop-dash, I think Sonic is kinda OP compared to Tails & Knuckles. That's my point.

EDIT: also, Sonic has no insta-shield anymore, so your point feels a bit weak... Not to mention that "it's been always like this" is already weak as an argument. With that mentality, there would be no spindash, Tails fly, insta-shield, drop dash...

Read Sean's post he explained it well. And Sonic should have the insta-shield. This isn't a "those were the days" sorta shit, it was a complete moveset that was balanced with the other two characters in how you moved in the air. 

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4 minutes ago, Sean said:

The thing about Knuckles and Tails is that their abilities give them extra air mobility whereas Sonic never has any such tactics. The elemental shields give him an edge in air control that the other characters don't really need.

I disagree: Tails might not need a double jump, but surely coud use the bubble and flame shield powers. And Knuckles could use the three abilities.

But on the other hand, I find it a pity that Sonic loses drop dash when it gets an elemental shield. To me, it's like losing spindash. Tails doesn't stop flying when he has a flame shield.

This is why I actually started thinking about adding elemental abilities to Tails & Knuckles: because losing the drop dash makes no sense. When insta-shield was Sonic's extra ability, it made sense.

 

Currently, I only see people is ignoring how drop dash has balanced Sonic, Tails and Knuckles abilities while they have no shield. 

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Considering Sonic has to give up the drop dash when he gets an elemental shield, I don't think it's too unbalanced. Sonic has more flexibility, in a sense, since he can switch out which special move he has, but he still only has access to one at a time, and none of his special moves can cover nearly the same distance as flight or gliding/climbing.

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The point is that Tails can fly for a relatively long period of time wherever he wants. Knuckles can glide so he can land wherever he wants. And they are both slow as fuck. 

Sonic when he has these abilities can have some sort of air direction that doesn't cover nearly as much ground as the others, but it operates much much faster, it's a harsh nudge in a direction that can be used much more in a period of time due to the time duration, and that is uniquely how Sonic is supposed to play. Sonic should have never lost the insta-shield anyway, it never lived up to its full potential.

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To me, losing the drop dash when you get an elemental shield is incoherent (do Tails or Knuckles loose their "natural" abilities when they get a shield?). Losing the insta-shield made sense, if you think of the insta-shield as some sort of "spark" that elemental shields fully use. Drop dash is different. 

Another approach: let all characters use drop dash (press down and any button while on air, instead of just any button), bring insta-shield back, let only Sonic have elemental powers.

My point: current moveset is lacking coherence. 

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1 minute ago, molul said:

To me, losing the drop dash when you get an elemental shield is incoherent (do Tails or Knuckles loose their "natural" abilities when they get a shield?). Losing the insta-shield made sense, if you think of the insta-shield as some sort of "spark" that elemental shields fully use. Drop dash is different. 

Another approach: let all characters use drop dash (press down and any button while on air, instead of just any button), bring insta-shield back, let only Sonic have elemental powers.

My point: current moveset is lacking coherence. 

This is why I don't like Drop Dash anyway. Insta-shield meshes way better with Sonic's moveset, Drop Dash feels odd in 2D. I think something like a drop dash would be a lot more suited to a 3D game. 

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I initially assumed that the Drop Dash would be tied to the down button, and if that change allows it to co-exist with the insta-shield and elemental shield powers for Sonic - and the other aerial abilities of Tails and Knuckles - then that seems reasonable.  Otherwise, you have to alter the one-button control scheme of the classics, which begins to raise other questions.  I'm not a particular fan of making the character movesets in 2D too technical; I found that a lot of the additional moves in the Advance and Rush games felt redundant in practice.

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10 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

This is why I don't like Drop Dash anyway. Insta-shield meshes way better with Sonic's moveset, Drop Dash feels odd in 2D. I think something like a drop dash would be a lot more suited to a 3D game. 

Oops. I do love it. Actually I use it all the time. To me it's already as "normal" as spindash. First time I saw it I thought "How did nobody figure this out in 20 years?".

Homing attack does make sense in a 3D space and not in a 2D one.

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I really don't get the idea that it seems "unfair". It's not a matter of being fair, it's about designing different ways to play the games with their own strengths and weaknesses.

The shields give Sonic the extra mobility that Tails and Knuckles have by default. Knuckles in particular is supposed to be hindered by his lower jump height. The shields would undermine that.

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1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

Knuckles in particular is supposed to be hindered by his lower jump height. The shields would undermine that.

First argument I actually agree with.

Then I'd go with giving drop dash to all characters and bringing back insta-shield. 

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I guess not, because it helps give Sonic something worth playing as. Sonic is always stuck with the trickiest gameplay. Tails has the easiest, and Knuckles is somewhere inbetween. It makes sense to let Sonic have exclusive effects for sheilds.

It may not make any well explained sense, but as a way to help the main character have something to stand out from his friends, it works. Sonic can't fly, climb, or glide,. While drop dash is a nice ability, I still don't think it alone changes much. It's mostly useful for speed runners, but I doubt it would be much use for beginners. It's still just a different way to access the spin dash, it won't help Sonic get up lengthy platform sections or water sections with ease, like Tails or Knuckles.

At least Tails and Knuckles can go super, unlike that unexplained tease in Sonic Heroe's climax... I liked the final battle in Heroes, but man, did that bother me. When I saw those glowing auras appear around Tails and Knuckles, I thought they were really turning super, instead, Sonic just protected them and brought them with him. Where does it state that only Sonic, Shadow, Silver, and Chaos are able to use the emeralds for transformations?

Sorry, went off topic a bit, but the main point is Tails and Knuckles have enough abilities that spice up their gameplay. Giving them Sonic's elemental sheild abilities might overdo it. Remember how Cream and Cheese made Tails feel obsolete in the Advance games? due to playing exactly like him, except with long range attacks? In a way, Tails and Knuckles could have done the same with Sonic, but the elemental sheild abilities give players a reason to want to try playing as Sonic.

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