Sonic Forces - Shadow DLC and new Screenshot

[Zippo]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Colors had 44, and Lost World had 34. Unleashed only had fifteen, though.

Huh? The HD version of Unleashed alone has 59 stages. The DLC added a huge amount of new levels.

[Tracker_TD]

Well this is... something. 

[Someguy]

While it doesn't excuse things like Green Dust Hill Zone Classic, I wonder if the level from the video is particularly... boxy... because they're approaching these three Shadow-exclusive DLC levels with the same level of importance as Generations missions or Colors non-main act wide yellow spring type levels, a quickie filler reuse assets level rather than the main attraction that would feature more focus on new level geometry with all the baked global illumination and whatnot?

That'd definitely be a downgrade from DLC like Lost World's Yoshi's Island/Legend of Zelda Zones, but Shadow himself at least has new animations and functionality it seems, so I could see them going "Shadow and his cutscenes are the main attraction, let's toss some prefab objects together to show off his special move" and calling it a day.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

Well this is... something. 

My favorite kind of boxes are Box Lunches in particular.

[The Deleter]

36 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Well this is... something. 

But Lost World didn't use any boxes...?

[Strickerx5]

There's been one thing that's been biting at me for a couple of months now and I think today's footage kind of legitimized the feeling in me. Now understand me when I say that I love the boost. It's as divisive as night is to day here but from the very beginning it's been one of my favorite gameplay styles to have ever graced the series. With that being said, there was always one game that utilized it that, also from the beginning, I was never really fond of. That game being Colors.

Like, I've been reading all these post about "blocky level design" and that was a term I distinctly remember using back in bloody 2011 XD. When Generations was coming and I saw the boost formula returning, I was ecstatic much like I am with this game. Though, if there was one worry I had back then it was that I had hoped they would take more inspiration from Unleashed (and other things like plot too but that didn't pan out) rather than from Colors.

To me, Colors enjoyed the method of creating 2 actual levels and then re-using them across 6 separate acts with little changes in order to expand the game. These changes often boiled down to how many blocks were piled up in section A as opposed to B. It was almost as if the developers dumped the two levels into some sort of basic level editor to do this and most of these acts felt like they ran on a grid because of it. Didn't help that the game was mostly 2D too.

With this new gameplay and from some others that we've seen, Forces seems to be going down this path too. The jury is still out for me as to if it'll be on the level of Colors in this regard (or even be that big of a problem outside of this Shadow dlc in general) but the fact that I've been drawing so many parallels to it at all is worrying to me. The sad part of all this is that I can see why they would do it too. Colors, for as much negativity as it seems to garner from these places nowadays, is still considered a great game by many. Why not try to emulate it?

At the end of the day, this game still seems to be rocking more of what I want from this series than anything else that has come out over the better half of the decade (and the addition of Shadow continues that)... but damn if this monkey paw meme isn't hitting home here. After LW, I was hoping for the boost to come back and right when it does it seems to be taking more from the game I've actively spoken out against for years rather than from Generations or Unleashed.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

1 hour ago, Zippo said:

Huh? The HD version of Unleashed alone has 59 stages. The DLC added a huge amount of new levels.

Well that's DLC, isn't it? Aren't we talking base game here? I mean you might as well count all of Colors' game land stages or Generations' missions.

[Sega DogTagz]

Basic sentiments seem to be on the nose for this. Of course the knee-jerk reaction is "O God this looks like Colors trash tier level design all over again", but I do also need to give credit where credit is due.

Forces took one MAJOR step forward by re-introducing Shadow as a playable character. Its a hurdle we've been asking them to take for years now, and they even did so in the style best befitting the franchise. Shadow represents a playable character, in the build of Sonic, with additional moves and features that makes his gameplay experience a little but different.

 

That's the magic formula. That's the MONEY formula. That's the formula most of us have been waiting for. Forces hits that out of the park. That is the mindset we need in the franchise moving forward. Letting the other characters play to their strengths within the playground of whatever Sonic formula they are utilizing. 

If Forces has any kind of lasting impact on the series going forward, I hope it is this. Integrating known characters back into playable roles by working with Sonic's moveset and branching out. 

 

[Zippo]

9 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Well that's DLC, isn't it? Aren't we talking base game here? I mean you might as well count all of Colors' game land stages or Generations' missions.

I'm talking about the full games here, DLC included. Just because Game Land and many of Unleashed's smaller levels are optional doesn't mean they don't count when It comes to a full level count.

[Joellui]

Since this is a prequel to the main events of the game, would we see a version of Park Avenue that's not destroyed? Or we're just gonna get small changes from the main level. I would hope not, I would wish to bring variations to each characters level like from Sonic Adventure 2, but boy knowing the Sonic Team at this point they would never put that much of an effort. That would at least justify playing the other two characters but....

 Although I am glad Shadow is playable, I'm just happy that there's more of a focus to the story in this game. But yeesh those box placement in that video, I feel like they made they're own version of Super Mario Maker and just put whatever they wanted without a cohesive design to the actual level.

[Silvereyes]

I think Shadow looks fine. I'm going to be honest, my expectations are low for Forces. Really, I just want a good time, with at least a couple of fun Zones in it, and some character moments. Personally, my big excitement is the sheer hope that Sonic Team/Sega are finally beginning to come around to the idea that Sonic's friends are not cancerous, and that they could be a focus for a future game. I do wonder if this is them putting their toes into the water on the subject, and hopefully Mania might have added some more good will too.

Forces may not be great, but I just hope it is a fun time. No idea if I will pre-order it or wait for a sale, but I just hope it is a fun experience.

[MegasonicZX]

I'm really mixed on this whole thing. On one hand, playable shadow is great and the fact that sonic team even bothered making him (even as essentially just an alt. skin) really shows that they are willing to give other characters a shot again...but, and I know people who are excited are probably tired of hearing this, that level design just looks so, non-existent, that it actually baffles me how anybody can be excited for it (not saying anybody can't mind you but it just has me scratching my head), it just feels so fan game-ish both in looks and design and that's not really a good thing. At this point i'm just going to hope and pray that this is just a case of sonic team just showing us the worst so that when we get to the good stuff it will feel better but right now I can't find any reason to be excited for this dlc beyond the superficial sense of playing as one of my fav characters in the franchise (who doesn't even truly get his own levels).

[Whatever the WhoCares]

1 hour ago, Joellui said:

Since this is a prequel to the main events of the game, would we see a version of Park Avenue that's not destroyed?

No way. Park Avenue literally has grass growing through the cracks in the concrete. It's been a long time since Eggman took over, and he probably did it without Shadow. 

[Detective Kaito]

Man, I can't wait for them to show the auto-scrolling level!

[Crazy_Diamond]

14 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

Man, I can't wait for them to show the auto-scrolling level!

I'd be down for a Bridge Zone return tbh.

[rosedust]

shadow... in a sonic game.. again.

it's time to crank up emo jams and chug my monster energy drink in my glittery black pumps. i'm going to serve goth with a side of edge while i play this e10+ sonic game.

[Tenko]

I realize he's popular, tho I've always failed to see why, but wouldn't a character with a move set including something..different from Sonic have been vastly more worth while. Tails and his flight, Knuckles and his climbing/digging etc. Not just..another Sonic with a slightly different boost mechanic and a light speed dash...

Even Silver with his abilities would have been more interesting...and that's saying something when I dislike him even more than Shadow.

[Shadowlax]

14 minutes ago, Tenko said:

I realize he's popular, tho I've always failed to see why, but wouldn't a character with a move set including something..different from Sonic have been vastly more worth while. Tails and his flight, Knuckles and his climbing/digging etc. Not just..another Sonic with a slightly different boost mechanic and a light speed dash...

Even Silver with his abilities would have been more interesting...and that's saying something when I dislike him even more than Shadow.

Shadow also has abilities that would differentiate him. They aren't using them. So it being a different character wouldn't have mattered much if sega wasn't going to put the work in. You would have silver except for his jumps are a bluish green. Or maybe shadow does something else later, I don't know

[DiamondX]

Shadow was most probably added to see a different side of the story. And he's the closest out of that group to Sonic, (well, he and Metal) so he was the one to ve made playable.

[Salamander]

It strikes me as unlikely that this decision stemmed from the plot first and foremost.  The decision to make Shadow playable will have been largely to do with his popularity, with an element of experiment in the use of other playable characters, since as you note he could easily be adapted from Modern's moveset.  The story angle is just window-dressing, really, to explain the new levels; granted, there are other justifications they could have used (score attack, character showcase, fun bonus etc.), but I'll admit that going for a story-based angle is one of the better ones.  Hopefully Shadow's storyline will be better than his gameplay.

So, does this mean that Shadow has more playable stages in this game than Modern Sonic?

[Bobnik]

5 minutes ago, FFWF said:

So, does this mean that Shadow has more playable stages in this game than Modern Sonic?

If all Modern stages are playable as Shadow, then technically yes?

But according to Jeffhog he'll be playable "in several Modern Sonic stages", so maybe some stages can't be played as Shadow.

[Red Hot Jack]

So does that mean there are way more than 11 stages for Modern Sonic (and each character)? Btw, I agree that they're not putting any effort in these stages like they did for the missions in Generations, the Unleashed DLC and the minor acts in Colors, the ones that were gimmicky. They are just an extra.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

8 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Well that's DLC, isn't it? Aren't we talking base game here? I mean you might as well count all of Colors' game land stages or Generations' missions.

Game land stages are not DLC....nor are the Generations' missions... if you are going to compare Unleashed with those, compare it with Unleashed's townspeople missions that were also in-disc.

Unleashed's DLC was wayyyy better than any other DLC Sonic Team has spitted out since. And Unleashed was their first ever game with DLC! Where are the standards. You're suppose to aim high, not lower.

Shadow's DLC looks like it has been made last minute. Something to pad the game a little more (which is scaring me as it can indicate Forces is a short game). These levels look like they were made from Super Mario Maker or LittleBigPlanet. And that's a little insulting since top played SMM/LBP levels have a lot of creativity in them.

 

[Marcello]

What really bothers me is how boring the marketing from SOA is. They just take a tiny portion of a level and throw it up uncut. They've already done multiple times and it really fails to make these videos exciting. This should've had scenes from each of Shadow's levels, Sonic's stages and the story bits. Unedited videos of levels should be separate.

3 hours ago, Bobnik said:

If all Modern stages are playable as Shadow, then technically yes?

But according to Jeffhog he'll be playable "in several Modern Sonic stages", so maybe some stages can't be played as Shadow.

Modern Sonic also has the Tag Team stages, assuming they don't switch the partners for each one out.

[Johnny Boy]

1 hour ago, Marcello said:

What really bothers me is how boring the marketing from SOA is. They just take a tiny portion of a level and throw it up uncut. They've already done multiple times and it really fails to make these videos exciting. This should've had scenes from each of Shadow's levels, Sonic's stages and the story bits. Unedited videos of levels should be separate.

 

Agreed. That Japanese story trailer was beyond epic but all the American branch has done is just show the same damn levels over and over again while also still showcasing music from Mania. Would it kill them to just release an English version of the story trailer or the radio broadcasts from Eggman and Knuckles?