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Sonic Forces - Shadow DLC and new Screenshot

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Anyway to stop memeing for a second, I find the level to be fine as is, gameplay wise. My main problem is the presentation. It look super poor with these copy and pasted platforms and boxes. It's honestly something I would expect from a early "proof of concept" mod for Forces, not something official.

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12 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Maybe he doesn't feel like criticizing it?

Yep.

14 minutes ago, KHCast said:

So then why not criticize it vs simply shrug and say you like it. All that does is send the message to ST that what they're doing is fine, and that they don't need to improve to get your money. Criticism can still happen if you like something 

I don't feel like taking my time to analyze how bad the level design is, there is many other people already on the case.

Now the game is almost here, I can only hope the level design gets better throughout the game.

While that I'm gonna just play the levels and have fun anyway.

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Watched it several times (I really like Supporting Me remix, okay?)
Shadow looks to be a Sonic clone + light speed attack for the weird chains of badniks, which is okay I guess, didn't really expect him to be different to Modern. I like how fluid he (and therefore Modern Sonic) looks to be control-wise (although I can't really be certain until I play the actual game). 2 main problems and 1 nagging feeling I have about the level they've shown off

1) It's 2D, which is eugh

2) The level design here is the worst I've ever seen. Yes, Classic's GHZ for me looks better than this. Like, it's filled with flat bland platforms and a huge amount of steel crates. Hell, the part of level layout repeats in that footage, how do you even manage that?

At least they made this Episode free, the story is intriguing and, despite level design being bad, the game still may be fun (yeah I'm a freak, deal with it, I don't look at games very critically), so eh.

Oh, and I also have that nagging feeling that the level isn't completely new and was taken from either Modern's level or Avatar's level, removed objects from there and put a bunch of other objects and a shitload of steel crates to make it look like a completely new layout (aka Generations missions). I can't really prove that, but it sure feels that way.

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3 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

Oh, and I also have that nagging feeling that the level isn't completely new and was taken from either Modern's level or Avatar's level, removed objects from there and put a bunch of other objects and a shitload of steel crates to make it look like a completely new layout (aka Generations missions). I can't really prove that, but it sure feels that way.

It's very clearly this level.

 

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So I have a question: If you were gonna make Shadow playable anyway why can't he be the 3rd character? I'm pretty sure people would prefer that over a stupid OC character.

Also that level design is lazy as all hell, Morio Kishimoto should be fired and replaced by Hiroshi Miyamoto so that Sonic levels can have platforming that isn't generic blocky platforming.

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I rather like the idea of incorperating Shadow through DLC. One, I rather hate how modern video games companies' misuse of DLC has created the perception that DLC are a core part of a game what that's not what its meant for or good for. Rather, only what's on the base disc/download can be considered part of the core game. The rest is add-ons. For that I am glad Sonic Forces recognizes and respects that by not making Shadow an obligatory (whether explicit or implied) purchase. Two, I proposed something like this awhile back as a way to incorporate multiple playable characters as a compromise between people who want multiple playable characters and people who don't. The idea is that the base game only features Sonic, but players can for free download others with their own playstyles. In that, I think Shadow DLC is a missed opportunity, as the base game already has multiple playable characters. Sonic Team also hasn't taken advantage of the extra time that could be alloted to them when working on DLC, which could theoretically allow them to spend more time on new gameplay styles in much the same way that the &Knuckles expansion of Sonic 3 bought Sonic Team more time to refine the gameplay and include Knuckles. Neither was taken advantage of.

I am very happy to see Omega and Rouge return. Hopefully they are depicted well.

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Hell yeah! Once I get the option to play as Shadow in the Modern stages I'm never playing as Sonic again. I'm gonna savor this because, if history has taught me anything, the critics are going to slam it for daring to exist and SEGA is going to respond by nuking anything "edgy" so hard the next Sonic game will make Caillou look like Hatred by comparison.

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3 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

They're just doing this again. It's shameful.

You know what's the last glimpse of hope I have left?

Colours.

It was a low budget product, an in-between-games game. It came out in 2010, Generations came out in 2011 and it blew it out of the water.

Forces is a low budget product too, 40€ pricepoint. The only thing that keeps me going right now is hoping that next year an actually good 3D Sonic game will come out.

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To some this is a bad 3d game. To me and thousands of others it's amazing and runs great.  lol the only gripe i see are people joking where's shadows gun. I honesrly wise we were getting a collectors edition so I could get a statue of infinite

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21 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

I rather like the idea of incorperating Shadow through DLC. One, I rather hate how modern video games companies' misuse of DLC has created the perception that DLC are a core part of a game what that's not what its meant for or good for. Rather, only what's on the base disc/download can be considered part of the core game. The rest is add-ons. For that I am glad Sonic Forces recognizes and respects that by not making Shadow an obligatory (whether explicit or implied) purchase. Two, I proposed something like this awhile back as a way to incorporate multiple playable characters as a compromise between people who want multiple playable characters and people who don't. The idea is that the base game only features Sonic, but players can for free download others with their own playstyles. In that, I think Shadow DLC is a missed opportunity, as the base game already has multiple playable characters. Sonic Team also hasn't taken advantage of the extra time that could be alloted to them when working on DLC, which could theoretically allow them to spend more time on new gameplay styles in much the same way that the &Knuckles expansion of Sonic 3 bought Sonic Team more time to refine the gameplay and include Knuckles. Neither was taken advantage of.

I am very happy to see Omega and Rouge return. Hopefully they are depicted well.

What's the difference ultimately tho in them being in game vs them being DLC? You can choose not to play them if you really don't like them. Either way, it's content you're missing out on regardless of if it's in the digital store to download or ingame

The "Sonic's shitty friends" group will still attack the DLC as being pointless, a waste of time and resources, etc. 

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6 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

To some this is a bad 3d game.

Debatable. I'd argue it seems like a bad 2D game.

7 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

To me and thousands of others it's amazing and runs great.  lol the only gripe i see are people joking where's shadows gun. I honesrly wise we were getting a collectors edition so I could get a statue of infinite

That and the numerous amounts of level criticisms. Homing chains, straight lines with enemies that don't do anything ect. I'm hearing this a lot, especially after Mania came out swinging.

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11 minutes ago, KHCast said:

What's the difference ultimately tho in them being in game vs them being DLC? You can choose not to play them if you really don't like them. Either way, it's content you're missing out on regardless of if it's in the digital store to download or ingame

If its in game, then there will be the expectation that the game, story, etc. were designed with that character in mind and  therefore should incorperate the characters into the plot, unlockables, etc, to the point where none of those things would be good without them.

For example, in Sonic Adventure, you could just not play as Big or Knuckles if you hated them so much. But then you'd miss how Chaos got one of the emeralds he needed as well as what happened to the ship Tails left behind when it crashed on the Egg Carrier (with the subtle reassurance that no, Eggman is not going to find Tails's plane in the wreckage of the Egg Carrier and reverse engineer it for evil). With Knuckles you'd miss a really big chunk of the plot as well including his personal story. You miss Tikal giving information about the lore of a game. You'd also completely miss the final story, which is only unlocked when you complete the 6 previous stories. Meaning that you don't get to see the conclusion of the game or a chance to fight Perfect Chaos. Also, Big and Knuckles are needed unlock some stuff and get acheivements, so you're going to miss out if you don't play as them.

Meanwhile, with DLC, there isn't the expectation that the game, its story, etc. were designed with that character in mind. So it is more acceptable to not bundle the game with unlockables or story content pertaining to the DLC character, but instead come up with something that's more individualized.

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2 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

If its in game, then there will be the expectation that the game, story, etc. were designed with that character in mind and  therefore should incorperate the characters into the plot, unlockables, etc, to the point where none of those things would be good without them.

For example, in Sonic Adventure, you could just not play as Big or Knuckles if you hated them so much. But then you'd miss how Chaos got one of the emeralds he needed as well as what happened to the ship Tails left behind when it crashed on the Egg Carrier (with the subtle reassurance that no, Eggman is not going to find Tails's plane in the wreckage of the Egg Carrier and reverse engineer it for evil). With Knuckles you'd miss a really big chunk of the plot as well including his personal story. You miss Tikal giving information about the lore of a game. You'd also completely miss the final story, which is only unlocked when you complete the 6 previous stories. Meaning that you don't get to see the conclusion of the game or a chance to fight Perfect Chaos. Also, Big and Knuckles are needed unlock some stuff and get acheivements, so you're going to miss out if you don't play as them.

Meanwhile, with DLC, there isn't the expectation that the game, its story, etc. were designed with that character in mind. So it is more acceptable to not bundle the game with unlockables or story content pertaining to the DLC character, but instead come up with something that's more individualized.

But couldn't they just make them optional without the need to make them DLC? Like end game bonus stuff like we used to do in games once upon a time?

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