Iizuka: There will not be a Sonic Adventure 3 & what future Sonic titles will be like

[Badnik Mechanic]

Polygon has interviewed Iizuka and brought up the SA3 question... and before mods decide to lock the topic... he actually gave some VERY different reasons as to why SA3 is not happening this time which also gives a slight insight into what Sonic Team is doing as a unit.

 

“I hear people saying that they want Adventure 3, but the path that we’re on and ... Adventure 3, what fans want that to be, might not be an advancement of the series, [...] So I don’t want to do an Adventure 3 and step the franchise back just to give the fans what they want.”

Basically, Sonic Team does not see a return to the adventure series as being an advancement of the series but a step backward, he then goes onto explain future development plans and strategies.

“From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going,”

 

So every new Sonic game from now on is going to have some kind of gimmick or something new, the co-op buddy thing looks like it's the first major step in that direction 

He then returns back to the SA3 issue and states that if SA3 were to come out, it would be in name only and would not be what people expect it to be.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/19/16333174/sonic-adventure-3-will-never-happen

[pppp]

Because it's not like the SA1 Sonic stages, while rough on the edges, have immense untapped potential and are the best bet we have for 3D gameplay that pleases most.

Then again, this is the same moron that thought Sonic Mania wouldn't find success so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just now, pppp said:

Then again, this is the same moron that thought Sonic Mania wouldn't find success so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Can I see the quote for that?

[Blue Blood]

Quote

I hear people saying that they want Adventure 3, but the path that we’re on and ... Adventure 3, what fans want that to be, might not be an advancement of the series, [...] So I don’t want to do an Adventure 3 and step the franchise back just to give the fans what they want.

So what is Mania then?

Quote

From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going

That doesn't mean literally making the games play themselves.

[Dr. Mechano]

The Adventure games certainly were not perfect, but they actually had decent platforming. You had to stop and line up your jumps. Enemies were actual threats for you to deal with. The level design was engaging, generally.

If that's not an "advancement" over the hallway-like design of the boost games, where you just plow through enemies and there's scarcely any actual platforming, then I think it's time for me to give up on the 3D games. I'll stick around for the ineveitable Mania sequels, and will at least keep myself in the loop about the 3D games' cutscenes and characters, but I will not buy another boost game. They aren't fun, they aren't well-designed, and they aren't an "advancement of the series," as Iizuka believes.

[JosepHenry]

Sigh....

Iizuka... Is a really nice guy. He gave us Colors, Generations and Mania after the Dark Age but...

 

He is lack of self-awareness in person. People don't want just Adventure 3 for the fishing. They want Adventure 3 because those games had focus on characters, story and had a solid gameplay for Sonic. Not just that, you want to keep doing new things instead of doing that works and can be improved on? Even after Mania? Which was improving over an old formula?

 

I'm sorry, but after Forces he has to stop being the director for Sonic games. While he is in charge, the games will keep being "a mess" like people like to say. Hire someone that keeps close contact with the fanbase, and can strike a good balance.

[Diogenes]

While I trust Iizuka about as far as I can throw him, in general I agree with him on this. I don't think there's anything particularly special about the Adventure formula, and at this point SA3 has largely become defined around the pursuit of SA3 rather than what the game itself would actually be. And while I disagree with the direction the series has been going, and I think it's a bit hypocritical for him to say it when they've been packing in so much nostalgia bait, I do think that 3D Sonic has got to move forward and not constantly look backwards.

Just now, pppp said:

Because it's not like the SA1 Sonic stages, while rough on the edges, have immense untapped potential and are the best bet we have for 3D gameplay that pleases most.

Yeah, no, I really don't think there's anything special about SA's stages. If it seems like the best bet for satisfying 3D gameplay, that speaks more to the failure of the other 3D Sonics than of any particular strength of SA's gameplay. The series needs to aspire to something better than that.

[KHCast]

11 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

So what is Mania then?

That doesn't mean literally making the games play themselves.

Sounds like he's talking out of his ass tbh since he's a mouthpiece for sega and has to pretty much always make excuses. Not that I want sa3 mind you. But gameplay wise, I don't think it couldn't be upgraded and updated 

 

plus, wasn't he teasing for the longest time that it could happen?

[Detective Kaito]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

Sigh....

Iizuka... Is a really nice guy. He gave us Colors, Generations and Mania after the Dark Age but...

 

He is lack of self-awareness in person. People don't want just Adventure 3 for the fishing. They want Adventure 3 because those games had focus on characters, story and had a solid gameplay for Sonic. Not just that, you want to keep doing new things instead of doing that works and can be improved on? Even after Mania? Which was improving over an old formula?

 

I'm sorry, but after Forces he has to stop being the director for Sonic games. While he is in charge, the games will keep being "a mess" like people like to say. Hire someone that keeps close contact with the fanbase, and can strike a good balance.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Takashi_Iizuka

According to this, Iizuka isn't a director, but a Supervisor. Though I do agree, Takashi Iizuka and Morio Kishimoto should NOT be working on Sonic anymore.

[Marcello]

I just want Sonic's gameplay to be more similar to the Adventure games. I don't care about the name.

[Blue Blood]

I generally think Iizuka comes off much worse in interviews than he really is. From what I understand, he was part of the driving force behind Mania. He genuinely believed in that project and allowed it to become what it is. If he was given free reign to direct a new Sonic game withotu being strong-armed by anyone higher up in SEGA, I wonder what we'd get.

The Adventure style gameplay (for Sonic, not the rest of the genre roulette) is the way forwards for Sonic in 3D. It's almost 20 years since SA1 first came out. There's a lot of way it could be improved and expanded upon.

[Blue Wisp]

13 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

They want Adventure 3 because those games had focus on characters, story and had a solid gameplay for Sonic.

Characters yes absolutely. 

Story? While I absolutely love Chaos, Sonic Adventure 1's plot was disjointed with the multiple characters, Big and Gamma serving no real interest to the plot and Amy barely qualifying. And Sonic Adventure 2's story was awful. How the fuck is "a black hedgehog with red stripes is confused with our beloved hero Sonic" a good plot point? I can suspend my disbelief for a videogame, but come the fuck on. 

Gameplay, while I like how Sonic handles in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, the rest of those games were not very fun. If I like a third of a game, what's the point of wanting a sequel with just that third? It's not a true sequel if it's only a third of the game. 

While I would like the Adventure SONIC gameplay to get another shot at someday, I'm glad Adventure 3 proper is never happening. The Adventure games, while a third of those games is fun, it's not something I would like revisited. 

fucking tails in a mech grumble grumble

[Detective Kaito]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, no, I really don't think there's anything special about SA's stages. If it seems like the best bet for satisfying 3D gameplay, that speaks more to the failure of the other 3D Sonics than of any particular strength of SA's gameplay. The series needs to aspire to something better than that.

 

To be fair, SA1's gameplay is probably the closest thing we've got to "Classic Sonic in 3D." Yes, it's very flawed, but like you said, every Sonic game after it has failed to provide gameplay that's better than it, which is why Sonic Team should go back to this gameplay style, make it control better, make the level design better, etc. since the technology today allows for it. Level design in SA1, while it doesn't come close to the classics, still has the basic idea of mixing speed, platforming, and exploration. Sonic Generations Modern Stages (namely Seaside Hill) is the kind of level design 3D Sonic should have if Sonic Team wants to stick with the boost formula.

The only logical next step would be to make something like Sonic Utopia where it's literally Classic Sonic in 3D, physics-based, open levels, etc.

[DonWaffleleven]

"Doesn't want to do an Adventure 3 because it would be a regression of the series.

Happily greenlit the classic throwback Sonic Mania."

Can we add "hypocrite" to the list of colourful words we use to describe Iizuka?

[SSF1991]

Hoo boy...where to start.

Well, firstly, I understand where Iizuka is coming from. Wanting the Sonic franchise to "move forward" and "advance" and "evolve" makes sense. The problem is is that actions speak louder than words and...well...they don't seem to reflect what he's saying.

Quote

So I don’t want to do an Adventure 3 and step the franchise back just to give the fans what they want.”

Problem #1: This..can give off the wrong vibe. It can easily be interpreted as "we don't want to please the fans" and...yikes. That's not what you want to do at all, with any fanbase.

Problem #2: It's also massively awkward to say something like that just a month after you released a game that does the opposite of this. Sonic Mania was made as a love letter to fans. It was also technically a "step back" for the franchise, a Classic era-type game. It seems very strange to want to talk about not "stepping the franchise back" when this is exactly what they did with Sonic Mania and, to a degree, Sonic Forces. It feels like he's contradicting himself. Which is awkward.

Quote

“From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going,”

Quote

“I hear people saying that they want Adventure 3, but the path that we’re on and ... Adventure 3, what fans want that to be, might not be an advancement of the series

Problem #3: He makes it sound, to me, like an Adventure-type game can't be done because they wouldn't be advancements and new steps, when that isn't the case at all. The Adventure game introduced new gameplay styles like crazy. Adventure 1 and 2 are not that similar whatsoever. Making another Adventure-type game really isn't that far-fetched of an idea, even in Sonic's current state. All the Adventure-era characters are still around. The franchise is still trying new gameplay styles, i.e. Lost World and even with the Boom branch with games like Rise of Lyric. An Adventure 3 or Adventure-like game would fit in with Iizuka's "advancing/evolving the series" rather nicely.

The mindset Iizuka has isn't wrong, but man is the current state of the franchise contradicting him. It doesn't reflect that mindset of his whatsoever.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I take what he said with truck of salt.

[JosepHenry]

12 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

While I trust Iizuka about as far as I can throw him, in general I agree with him on this. I don't think there's anything particularly special about the Adventure formula, and at this point SA3 has largely become defined around the pursuit of SA3 rather than what the game itself would actually be. And while I disagree with the direction the series has been going, and I think it's a bit hypocritical for him to say it when they've been packing in so much nostalgia bait, I do think that 3D Sonic has got to move forward and not constantly look backwards.

Yeah, no, I really don't think there's anything special about SA's stages. If it seems like the best bet for satisfying 3D gameplay, that speaks more to the failure of the other 3D Sonics than of any particular strength of SA's gameplay. The series needs to aspire to something better than that.

Sigh

They can't just base themselves on the controls of Adventure and polish the level design and physics?

[Marcello]

Also, that's a lot of strangely negative talk about back steps and lack of advancement and new directions for someone in charge of a series so in love with reliving and relying on the past.

[KHCast]

I mean Mario and Zelda for the longest time didn't at the  fundamental level, change up the formula big time with every new 3D game. Hell, Odyssey is going back to 64 style gameplay and making updates and upgrades to it. Sonic doesn't have that luxury of being able to stick with a working formula, or go back to one, that has potential to be tweaked and upgraded for years before it gets stale? He always needs to bring some innovating new concept?

[Waveshocker Sigma]

"It’s not that Iizuka isn’t on the same page, he said. It’s just that Sonic Team isn’t interested in repeating itself."

...Okay, Iizuka? Seriously, Iizuka?

SHUT UP.

You need to just shut up never speak your mind in public ever again because every time you do, you say something so completely bassackwards that all it does it make people question whether or not you actually thought before saying it or why you're even in the position that you are now.

Because goddamn, "Sonic Team isn't interested in repeating itself"? You don't want to "step the franchise back just to give the fans what they want"?

Then what the fuck are Mania and Forces supposed to be, you fucking hypocrite?

I don't get it.

People say "We want another game like the Classic Genesis titles!" and Sonic Mania is made.

People say "We want another boost game like Colors and Generations!" and Sonic Forces was made.

But when people say "We want another 3D game similar in controls and designs to Sonic's speedy platforming portions of the Adventure series!" all they basically get is a pile of excuses that just amounts to:

"No. I don't care if you want it or how much you'd pay for it. I'm not making it cause I don't wanna."

Good lord, why don't you just kill off the Boosting series and the entire Modern Sonic line and force the series to being Classic only in gameplay and character/world designs just to fully give me a reason to quit this franchise forever?

At least it'd guarantee that you'd be in an endless cycle of critical praise and support until/unless people finally get sick of the same thing over and over like what happened to Mega Man and the New Super Mario Bros series.

Thank god for Sonic Utopia. Even if it'll take awhile for anything else to happen with it, at least it's not only something, but it's something good that Lange and Murasaki care about.

Goddammit, I hate being a person who started being a fan of this series via Adventure.

Yes, I am hilariously mad. Confused and mad.

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

To be fair, SA1's gameplay is probably the closest thing we've got to "Classic Sonic in 3D."

I mean, yeah, I totally agree that it's their closest attempt (because they basically stopped trying at all immediately afterward). But just being the best they've tried doesn't mean it's good enough to be worth using as a base. SA Sonic is a severely flawed game, and I don't see the value in starting there and trying to fix all its problems compared to reexamining the series' core mechanics and strengths and building a new interpretation of 3D Sonic from scratch. There is so little I can point to in SA and say "yes, this is good, learn from this" compared to how many places the game falls short.

[Phos]

18 minutes ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

How the fuck is "a black hedgehog with red stripes is confused with our beloved hero Sonic" a good plot point? I can suspend my disbelief for a videogame, but come the fuck on. 

There's a zero percent chance of this being the actual reason but I just thought that if the gun robots all only had thermal cameras the differences between Sonic and Shadow wouldn't have been obvious.  Of course, thermal cameras are a terrible way to identify someone. 

 

35 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

Sigh....

Iizuka... Is a really nice guy. He gave us Colors, Generations and Mania after the Dark Age but...

 

He was also instrumental in Lost World, the director on Shadow the Hedgehog...

[Marcello]

26 minutes ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

Characters yes absolutely. 

Story? While I absolutely love Chaos, Sonic Adventure 1's plot was disjointed with the multiple characters, Big and Gamma serving no real interest to the plot and Amy barely qualifying. And Sonic Adventure 2's story was awful. How the fuck is "a black hedgehog with red stripes is confused with our beloved hero Sonic" a good plot point? I can suspend my disbelief for a videogame, but come the fuck on. 

1

Can't Sonic dye his hair? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DonWaffleleven]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't see the value in starting there and trying to fix all its problems compared to reexamining the series' core mechanics and strengths and building a new interpretation of 3D Sonic from scratch.

They did that. With the Boost. Plays nothing like the Adventure formula other than A = Jump, Homing attack and can jump on enemies. Sonic Utopia is closer to the Adventure formula than Unleashed/Colors/Gens/Forces. Like it or not, that's where we are now. That's the hill Iizuka is killing this franchise on. I can't see Sonic Team going back to a formula that worked (despite it's "severe flaws") unless Iizuka & Co. get the shaft as a result of some massive fan migration & dip in sales.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just now, Marcello said:

Can't Sonic dye his hair? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's always been a really simple solution that no one's ever brought up in regards to some of the "plotholes" in SA2. It's always "HURR DURR PLOTHOLES EDGY SAWNIK IS BAD BECUASE I CAN'T THINK FOR MYSELF AND AM REPEATING WHAT POPULAR OPINION SAYS WITH NO BRAIN CELLS".

For the record I'm not saying there aren't issues with the story, just that it's mind boggling how people just don't like to pay attention or think of obvious solutions to the supposed problem.