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Sonic Forces file sizes revealed

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Oh man! So you're telling me Forces has 83 terraflops of gigabuzzies and 32 specks of ram?

I'm impressed. Cause I totally know what file size numbers are and how they work and what this means just like the rest of you. Of course I do. I'm not stupid. I went to College!

Pfft.

Yeah. I'm hip.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Oh yeah another odd thing.

Switch version didn't have the tag team level..

The others however did.

 

...lol You don't think... that's the reason for the file size?

Or, y'know, the Switch demo is just an E3 build.

I'm sorry, but making this kind of assumption is weird. Like, Switch version looks to be pretty much the same game compared to other consoles, just with a very low graphical fidelity and 30 FPS(apparently unstable too). It's not like Unleashed, where an older gen is a completely different game compared to a newer gen.

I'll gladly eat my words if SEGA confirm that tag stages aren't in Switch version of this game tho.

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8 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Oh yeah another odd thing.

Switch version didn't have the tag team level..

The others however did.

 

...lol You don't think... that's the reason for the file size?

Or maybe because the Switch build was a very early one? We have seen how games can change drastically between E3 demos and final release. Mario Kart 8 had significant changes from E3 to release, Deluxe had changes and bug fixes from it's show demo. So did 3D World. Even Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Racing Transformed had optimisation improvements. 

I know the Switch version will likely run at 30fps. But the audio issues and input lag should not be there in the final game. 

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On 9/23/2017 at 11:18 AM, Strickerx5 said:

If I remember correctly, Unleashed had a file size of around 6gb. LW was 8gb and Generations is 11gb.

File size is rarely the best indicator to go on in terms of game size. Half the time the reasons you see big games getting big file sizes is due to poor optimization techniques and extremely massive texture files. If you're not going for photorealism, the latter reason is out. It's why games like botw can get away with low file sizes for the most part.

File size on its own rarely is. But it's that we keep getting shown the same handful of levels in conjunction with how short the levels we've already seen in addition to how small the game's file size is, and the fact that SEGA's selling it for only $40 leads me to believe it is.

I mean, there's multiple data points to suggest that Forces is indeed a small game. Hopefully I'm wrong here, but don't be surprised if that's the case.

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Just now, shdowhunt60 said:

File size on its own rarely is. But it's that we keep getting shown the same handful of levels in conjunction with how short the levels we've already seen in addition to how small the game's file size is, and the fact that SEGA's selling it for only $40 leads me to believe it is.

I mean, there's multiple data points to suggest that Forces is indeed a small game. Hopefully I'm wrong here, but don't be surprised if that's the case.

I was just commenting on the file size and it flat out not being the best indicator. Though, even at that point, I'd say 16gb actually goes against it being a small game. If the game was only a couple of levels there wouldn't be the need to even be the size of LW unless this game is packing 4K textures which (if previews are to be believed) it isn't. Let alone double it.

Platformers generally just don't need that kind of space. Even then, there are so many factors at play under the hood that it's like shooting a shot in the dark with it. Some game engines generally require more files to render same sized levels as other engines. Sometimes the way developers save data is less compressed than others. Maybe a game has more models to save than another. All these little things make it impossible to really say. The best we can do is go off of past ST game files and going by them, Forces is at least on par with Generations (which can be a good or bad thing depending on who you are). But even then who knows.

But, and this is off topic, can we please get past the notion that $40= small game. Just about every platformer under that sun is being priced like that. The only one I can bring up atm that isn't is Odyssey and I think that's largely Nintendo's habit of overpricing content than anything *see current price of any of their decade+ old DS games*. The price isn't about the game length, it's about where the genre is going in this industry.

Seriously, the only credence to this argument is that Sega themselves have only shown a couple of short levels. Though, even that has as much merit as the idea of them holding back a majority of the game for plot/ surprise reasons. I guess what I'm saying here is that we're really jumping the gun on the game's actual size at this point.

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1 minute ago, Strickerx5 said:

I was just commenting on the file size and it flat out not being the best indicator. Though, even at that point, I'd say 16gb actually goes against it being a small game. If the game was only a couple of levels there wouldn't be the need to even be the size of LW unless this game is packing 4K textures which (if previews are to be believed) it isn't. Let alone double it.

It's 16gb for the PS4 version of the game, which it's highly possible that there are indeed some higher res assets if it's optimized for the Pro. Add in cutscenes, especially pre-rendered ones... I mean there's a reason why games these days are utterly massive, even ones that aren't optimized for "pro" consoles.

1 minute ago, Strickerx5 said:

Platformers generally just don't need that kind of space. Even then, there are so many factors at play under the hood that it's like shooting a shot in the dark with it. Some game engines generally require more files to render same sized levels as other engines. Sometimes the way developers save data is less compressed than others. Maybe a game has more models to save than another. All these little things make it impossible to really say. The best we can do is go off of past ST game files and going by them, Forces is at least on par with Generations (which can be a good or bad thing depending on who you are). But even then who knows.

There isn't that much data to base that off of though. I mean, what else do we have in comparison? Mario Oddysey? It's a Switch first party game, it's going to be smaller by necessity. Super Lucky's Tale? A pretty low-key release which there isn't a ton of info off of. Snake Pass? Another pretty small indie release.

1 minute ago, Strickerx5 said:

But, and this is off topic, can we please get past the notion that $40= small game. Just about every platformer under that sun is being priced like that. The only one I can bring up atm that isn't is Odyssey and I think that's largely Nintendo's habit of overpricing content than anything *see current price of any of their decade+ old DS games*. The price isn't about the game length, it's about where the genre is going in this industry.

I mean, I know that. I've been playing Samus Returns, it's a pretty massive game for 2D Metroid standards, and it only retails for $40. I get that. But generally you're not going to see a supposed massive AAA game that's pushing 10-20 hours of content with high quality assets, expansive level design, pre-rendered CG cutscenes and all that for $40. That's not economically feasible.

That's why a 3DS game can retail for $40 or less, is because it's a system of low expectations. You don't need a massive overblown AAA budget to create a big game for the system.

1 minute ago, Strickerx5 said:

Seriously, the only credence to this argument is that Sega themselves have only shown a couple of short levels. Though, even that has as much merit as the idea of them holding back a majority of the game for plot/ surprise reasons. I guess what I'm saying here is that we're really jumping the gun on the game's actual size at this point.

I mean, it's not really jumping the gun at this point is it? As I've stated, there's multiple data points to support my position. I get that it's all speculation in the end, and I could easily be proven wrong, but I'm also looking at the facts as they are presented to me and drawing a conclusion from all of them.

And seriously think about this for a second. This has been a problem with Sonic since Unleashed. Sonic games have always been short since then, and that's because that this gameplay style that Sonic Team has created demands a ton of manpower and resources. It literally took them days to calculate the GIA for Daytime levels with hundreds of computers on-hand, and while newer technology is going to make that easier, that doesn't change that it's still something to this day is something that is very clearly that takes a ton of effort to pull off.

All that geometry. All that scripting. All that texture work. All that GIA. All that animation. All those fancy particle effects. All that adds up. And it adds up to Modern Sonic being VERY expensive and labor intensive, and... We can actually see this taking its toll. There's so many goofs in Sonic Forces that are being seen at this point in the games development that wouldn't have flew back in Unleashed. Just... Look at this animation:

dat_still_frame.gif

Look at that. Sonic is just sliding there. There's no indication from his quills or his ears or anything to indicate that he's actually sliding other than a completely static animation. He is just perfectly still here. This isn't an isolated incident, we're seeing multiple examples of corners being cut in ways that wouldn't have been cut before.

I can be proven wrong. Really I can. The game could still release, and it turns out that it's a fully-fleshed out Sonic experience, and we got more than our $40 worth of gameplay. But that's not what I'm seeing right now.

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@shdowhunt60Again, I'm not here to debate the quality of the game. That's a fools errand around here and it's not even the topic for that. I'm just saying that this game can easily not be as small as some are thinking.

Though, with that being said, I think we've talking about two completely different points of discussion. I'm saying it can easily be as long (in terms of gameplay length) as Generations, Colors, LW, basically any of the recent titles. This is around 4-6 hours give or take. Is/ was anyone expecting a "10-20" hour game length? Is that what you're hoping for? I just don't expect that from a Sonic game outright. The only games that even come close to that are Unleashed and 06. The first one purely due to the werehog and medal collecting and the other for it's long cutscenes and load times. None of the adventure, classics, or recent games come close to the 10 hour mark for completion.

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4 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

@shdowhunt60Again, I'm not here to debate the quality of the game. That's a fools errand around here and it's not even the topic for that. I'm just saying that this game can easily not be as small as some are thinking.

Though, with that being said, I think we've talking about two completely different points of discussion. I'm saying it can easily be as long (in terms of gameplay length) as Generations, Colors, LW, basically any of the recent titles. This is around 4-6 hours give or take. Is/ was anyone expecting a "10-20" hour game length? Is that what you're hoping for? I just don't expect that from a Sonic game outright. The only games that even come close to that are Unleashed and 06. The first one purely due to the werehog and medal collecting and the other for it's long cutscenes and load times. None of the adventure, classics, or recent games come close to the 10 hour mark for completion.

Something to add is that SA2 minus emblem hunting and plus a few extra Sonic stages would be a shorter game than Colors. Yet because of the way it's conveyed it feels much more grand and epic. Game length isn't as important as presentation when it comes to delivering a feeling of satisfaction. 

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With Boost levels in particular, you have to be careful about using terms like "small" versus "short."  It's quite plausible to suggest that the game will be absolutely packed with visual detail which Sonic just blasts past in a second.

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Alien Isolation comes in at about 20GB on PS4 and let me tell you that game is absolutely massive and packed with detail.                                                                                                                

I'm not a programmer or coder ,but don't let size deceive you.

Now if there is anything that does make me me wonder about the content and quality of Forces , its the price point. I Pre-ordered this at the start of August from Amazon.co.uk and the price started off at £37.99 which i thought was a steal. since then the price has fallen dramatically - now at £27.99. Its got me baffled as the marketing for this hasn't been on the cheap side and the production seems high end from what we've seen i.e having the London Philharmonic Orchestra do the soundtrack would've cost a fortune alone. 

 

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I really hope the Switch version is smaller due to compression, and not due to missing content. I’m aware it won’t  compare to the graphics and framerate of PS4, and Xbox One, but it shouldn’t have to look as bad as the Switch version’s E3 demo...

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