Sonic Forces Twitter Infos Thread

[Diogenes]

Just now, Crazy_Diamond said:

But they still needed to come up with some explanation.

They really didn't, though. Generations barely has a plot of any sort, and it really had no interest in examining the effects of time travel to any extent. It was all just an excuse to bring back classic Sonic and remake some levels. Actually thinking through the implications of the game's story is far beyond what it was ever meant to be.

[Dr. Mechano]

4 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

That's true. They could have come up with any number of explanations. But they still needed to come up with some explanation. This is simply the way they chose to do it, so I'd still say it resolves a plot hole.

And creates a bunch more.

Sonic 4 - a game starring modern Sonic - claims that it "takes place after Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Sonic CD." But now Iizuka says that Sonic 3 and Knuckles  and Sonic CD never happened in the modern games' canon. Sonic 4 also uses Little Planet in a direct callback to the events of CD. Eggman makes a Death Egg II instead of just a "Death Egg" because he already made the first one in Sonic 2. Retconning the classic games out of existence makes this "Death Egg II" make no sense.

Actually, I can do you one better: Sonic Pocket Adventure. A game where we literally see classic Eggman change into his modern outfit, using both designs in the same game for the same character.

How does this change of appearance square with the "classic's a different dimension" retcon?

[Crazy_Diamond]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

If the classic games never happened in the "modern dimension," then why are locations like Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and (almost definitely) Sky Sanctuary here? Why are there all these iconic locations from adventures that modern Sonic never went on?

No, no, you miss what I'm saying. The Time Eater went back in the past to right after the events of 3&K. The split happened at that point. So the Classic games (minus Mania of course) happened in both dimensions. It like in the Zelda timeline. Skyward Sword, The Minish Cap, Four Swords, and the majority of Ocarina of Time happened in every dimension, because those games take place before the split.

[Balding Spider]

*Looks around*

Shit like this is why I checked out of the Sonic cannon when the moon fixed itself.

[Razule]

21 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

That's true. They could have come up with any number of explanations. But they still needed to come up with some explanation. This is simply the way they chose to do it, so I'd still say it resolves a plot hole.

You know that assuming it's a split timeline and not just a retcon is an assumption, right. If they see him and start calling him "alternate dimension Sonic" right out of the gate, then.. retcon.

18 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

And creates a bunch more.

Sonic 4 - a game starring modern Sonic - claims that it "takes place after Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Sonic CD." But now Iizuka says that Sonic 3 and Knuckles  and Sonic CD never happened in the modern games' canon. Sonic 4 also uses Little Planet in a direct callback to the events of CD. Eggman makes a Death Egg II instead of just a "Death Egg" because he already made the first one in Sonic 2. Retconning the classic games out of existence makes this "Death Egg II" make no sense.

Actually, I can do you one better: Sonic Pocket Adventure. A game where we literally see classic Eggman change into his modern outfit, using both designs in the same game for the same character.

How does this change of appearance square with the "classic's a different dimension" retcon?

1. An alternate version of the classic events occurred in the modern dimension. Didn't someone who worked at SEGA say something like that a long time ago? That "Sonic 1-3K happened in some form (woth CD somewhere there)". It was in a different context and he claimed Generations wasn't canon though.

2. Because it's a obscure game most people don't know about, and is probably just an oversight on the developers.

"Ah crap we used the wrong Eggman design, let's just stick the new one in the next level we're making"

[Almar]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

And creates a bunch more.

Sonic 4 - a game starring modern Sonic - claims that it "takes place after Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Sonic CD." But now Iizuka says that Sonic 3 and Knuckles  and Sonic CD never happened in the modern games' canon.

How does that fit with Amy flashing back to Sonic CD in Sonic Adventure?

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Almar said:

How does that fit with Amy flashing back to Sonic CD in Sonic Adventure?

That flashback already created its own can of worms, because the devs were too lazy to bother modeling classic characters for the flashback. So we end up with a distorted version of Sonic CD where the characters had their modern designs.

[Razule]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

That flashback already created its own can of worms, because the devs were too lazy to bother modeling classic characters for the flashback. So we end up with a distorted version of Sonic CD where the characters had their modern designs.

Yes! So, in the alternate version of the events of the classics, the characters always had their modern designs. Problem solved. I don't think it's that they were too lazy though. Keep in mind, it's not like SEGA thinks they aged. It was just a redesign, an update. They always looked like that. That's why Sonic 4 used the modern design despite it allegedly being immediately after 3 and Knuckles. If they wanted to use the classic designs, they already had classic models of Sonic and Tails in the game.

[Gabz Girl]

48 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

People are making this unnecessarily  complicated. I also don't get the people that are shitting on Sega. Don't you realize that this actually fixes a plot hole instead of creating one? Think about it. In Generations, if Classic Sonic is Sonic's past self, then why does Modern Sonic have none of his memories? Modern Sonic should already know that the Time Eater is controlled by Eggman, because his "past self" already experienced it. So why doesn't he? Well, it seems that Sega is using the Many-worlds interpretation to answer that question. To use an example that people know about, let's take Zelda.

Okay, but then why does Sonic say “Enjoy your future, it’s gonna be great!” to Classic Sonic? Unless that was something the English script added and not the Japanese one.. >_> 

[Razule]

5 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

Okay, but then why does Sonic say “Enjoy your future, it’s gonna be great!” to Classic Sonic? Unless that was something the English script added and not the Japanese one.. >_> 

It's not. The whole premise of the game is that Sonic is teaming up with his past self.

[Gabz Girl]

That quote makes it sound like Classic Sonic still has many adventures ahead of him that Modern Sonic has already been through, so he’s telling him that he’s going to have a great future! 

..Okay they are two separate dimensions with one (Modern) being way ahead of the other (Classic). There. 8|

[Marcello]

I think you guys are overthinking things. Canon is whatever SEGA says is canon at any given moment. In other words, there's no actual canon.

[Almar]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

That flashback already created its own can of worms, because the devs were too lazy to bother modeling classic characters for the flashback. So we end up with a distorted version of Sonic CD where the characters had their modern designs.

I don't see how that's a problem. I would assume that Sonic Adventure's design updates would by default established they already looked like that even if you assumed there was a timeskip of a year or two between Classic and Modern Sonic.

Anyway, it's obvious IIzuka is just throwning in whatever out of things like being territorial and the backlash against Modern Sonic. Just look at him saying humans and toon animals live in different worlds despite what we see in Classic Sonic to Sonic Adventure 2.

[NegaMix]

If they're really going with this "separate dimensions" deal then I think, at the very least, that both Classic AND Modern Sonic have experienced the events of the classic games, just with some minor differences. However, we (in real life) have only watched/played Classic Sonic's "version" of these events. Or something like that.

[Razule]

Hey, more proof that Classic Sonic is now from an alternate dimension entirely, and not just an alternate timeline! 

Quote

Has anybody noticed that Mighty the Armadillo is missing?

Iizuka: Mighty is a part of the Classic world and the Classic group of characters, and some of the Chaotix did get interpreted for the Modern vision of the games. However, Mighty still exists in the Classic world, so maybe we'll see him in the future in some Classic iteration.

Classic was from the past, now he's from another dimension, where classic characters like Mighty and Fang exist. Modern Sonic had similar adventures to Classic in the past. This is just the canon now. Honestly the least complicated reason is always closer to the one they actually had in mind (unless they spell it out in-game), logical or not. Like, Gerald didn't make Shadow look like Sonic because he saw the Hidden Palace mural (especially when we don't even know if it still exists), he just does because they wanted an anti-Sonic. It's a dumb coincidence.

[Shiny Gems]

12 minutes ago, Razule said:

Hey, more proof that Classic Sonic is now from an alternate dimension entirely, and not just an alternate timeline! 

Classic was from the past, now he's from another dimension, where classic characters like Mighty and Fang exist. Modern Sonic had similar adventures to Classic in the past. This is just the canon now. Honestly the least complicated reason is always closer to the one they actually had in mind (unless they spell it out in-game), logical or not. Like, Gerald didn't make Shadow look like Sonic because he saw the Hidden Palace mural, he just does because they wanted an anti-Sonic. It's a dumb coincidence.

That makes me think now, will there be all new characters that are EXCLUSIVE to the classic world? I mean, we already have the Hard-Boiled Heavies, so why not?

[Almar]

15 minutes ago, Razule said:

Hey, more proof that Classic Sonic is now from an alternate dimension entirely, and not just an alternate timeline! 

Classic was from the past, now he's from another dimension, where classic characters like Mighty and Fang exist. Modern Sonic had similar adventures to Classic in the past. This is just the canon now. Honestly the least complicated reason is always closer to the one they actually had in mind (unless they spell it out in-game), logical or not. Like, Gerald didn't make Shadow look like Sonic because he saw the Hidden Palace mural (especially when we don't even know if it still exists), he just does because they wanted an anti-Sonic. It's a dumb coincidence.

Your post just shows Iizuka is throwing in whatever. Also, "least complicated" doesn't really apply to the Two Worlds retcon.

[Razule]

3 minutes ago, Almar said:

Your post just shows Iizuka is throwing in whatever. Also, "least complicated" doesn't really apply to the Two Worlds retcon.

That would fall under "unless they spell it out" minus the in-game part.  It's not that he's not throwing in whatever, I agree, just that making grand explanations and projecting them onto Sonic Team is pointless.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 hour ago, Almar said:

I don't see how that's a problem. I would assume that Sonic Adventure's design updates would by default established they already looked like that even if you assumed there was a timeskip of a year or two between Classic and Modern Sonic.

Problem with that theory is:

Would you look at that? Eggman's Hedgehog Hammer game uses his classic design - a design which, if a retcon is to be believed, never existed in this universe.

So if Eggman used to look like his classic self, shouldn't Sonic and Amy have also looked like their classic selves in the past? It honestly makes more sense to just take the entire game chronology as one cohesive continuity rather than trying to split them into separate worlds, to me.

[Razule]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Problem with that theory is:

Would you look at that? Eggman's Hedgehog Hammer game uses his classic design - a design which, if a retcon is to be believed, never existed in this universe.

So if Eggman used to look like his classic self, shouldn't Sonic and Amy have also looked like their classic selves in the past? It honestly makes more sense to just take the entire game chronology as one cohesive continuity rather than trying to split them into separate worlds, to me.

Can't it just be a simple reference? The fact that he even has a whack-a-mole of himself is weird enough.

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Razule said:

Can't it just be a simple reference?

In-universe, what is it a reference to, though?

Why would Eggman intentionally make an off-model version of himself for his own minigame? I think the simplest answer is that Eggman designed it this way because, at one point in history, he actually wore that outfit.

 

[JosepHenry]

And the Lost Hex has a casino that is Classic Sonic and Tails themed.

Aren't you guys overthinking this?

[Razule]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

And the Lost Hex has a casino that is Classic Sonic and Tails themed.

Aren't you guys overthinking this?

Yep

12 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

In-universe, what is it a reference to, though?

Why would Eggman intentionally make an off-model version of himself for his own minigame? I think the simplest answer is that Eggman designed it this way because, at one point in history, he actually wore that outfit.

 

That's it though.. maybe there just isn't an in-universe reason. Maybe he did wear at one point, who knows.

[Dr. Mechano]

That'd be a shame. The idea that there are "modern versions" of the classic games in the backstory is kind of depressing.

I have a hard time imagining them being anything other being full of glitches, prerendered 3D graphics, badly synthesized music, and Dimps physics.

[JosepHenry]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

That'd be a shame. The idea that there are "modern versions" of the classic games in the backstory is kind of depressing.

I have a hard time imagining them being anything other being full of glitches, prerendered 3D graphics, badly synthesized music, and Dimps physics.

What does that has to do with anything?