New Sonic Forces Zone revealed: Casino Forest

[speedfreak]

I think I'm gonna cancel my preorder and wait on reviews and final impressions. I just don't like anything I'm seeing. :/ Literally every level shown has looked boring to me. I hated the custom character idea from the beginning and it's gameplay looks terrible so it's not like my mind is going to be changed on that.

It just seems the design philosophy behind this one isn't my cup of tea. The short levels, the custom character idea, among other things like I'm sick of 3D Sonic games being 50-70% 2D gameplay.

[StaticMania]

Seems like the boost game-play needs more 3D platforming.

[speedfreak]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Seems like the boost game-play needs more 3D platforming.

Seriously. They spam 2D sections WAYYY too much. Several times every fucking level.

[StaticMania]

Of course they do, that's the only way you'll get any creative platforming in this Boost World.

[Captain Fun]

Game is looking like a pass for me right now.

I didn't mind the Classic physics not being 1:1 too much in Generations because that game felt somewhat fresh, but I don't think I can excuse it again, especially when the level design is this bad.

[Dr. Detective]

Bah. I don't care about Classics physics. I don't even want him there. I can probably squeeze some fun out of him again (especially of he's got an unlockable homing attack here too) but I need another full 3D one eventually. I dunno if I can hold out another 10 years.

[Straw Hat]

It's pretty astounding how much this game has regressed from Generations in terms of gameplay. Like, did the level designers for Gens leave Sonic Team or something?

[Whatever the WhoCares]

1 hour ago, Straw Hat said:

It's pretty astounding how much this game has regressed from Generations in terms of gameplay. Like, did the level designers for Gens leave Sonic Team or something?

That or maybe they're working on Sonic 2018/19. The "team" is evidently a lot larger and more split than it was ten years ago. 

[Straw Hat]

That'd actually be kinda hilarious. Like, Forces just ends up being the Colors kind of game that is just okay-ish and the real deal is being worked on behind closed doors....

Pfft- Yeah right... Lol.

But hey, it's fun to dream I guess.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

The person playing the level for the JP channel did things a little different than the US one. I feel like they played a bit more competently.

And as a result, it's easier to see the confusing speed physics folks were complaining about. Not sure why Sonic doesn't run faster when going down an incline when he does so just fine in Mania and Generations.

Weird.

[Guest]

A bit late to the party, but I gotta say I'm not really feeling this zone. I don't really think the Casino and the Forest themes have been integrated very well, it very much just seems like they've gone "ok we need Trope A but stick it in Trope B",  partially because the cues that are Casino based seem to be almost entirely taken from Casino Night. Similarly, I'm not too big a fan of the Lost-World esque visual stylings of the trees and the forest. Not really the aesthetic I was looking for after 4 years of anticipating a next-gen experience. Still not a fan of the music either, and as plenty of people have mentioned, the physics really aren't the best. Whatever terrain-based caps on Sonic's speed they're using, it's not working. Sonic should increase speed while going downhill.

Either way, it's nothing overly bad, but nothing overly good either. Add to it that I really don't care about classic Sonic and 2D gameplay in 3D sonic games. Show me some actual 3D Sonic.

[BlueFlare]

7 hours ago, speedfreak said:

I think I'm gonna cancel my preorder and wait on reviews and final impressions. I just don't like anything I'm seeing. :/ Literally every level shown has looked boring to me. I hated the custom character idea from the beginning and it's gameplay looks terrible so it's not like my mind is going to be changed on that.

It just seems the design philosophy behind this one isn't my cup of tea. The short levels, the custom character idea, among other things like I'm sick of 3D Sonic games being 50-70% 2D gameplay.

This, I get a feeling the point is more about the story telling than actual gameplay since the levels seem very linear with little to none imagination and are very short. I just can't see myself get even a bit of enjoyment off Forces.

[The Deleter]

18 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

The person playing the level for the JP channel did things a little different than the US one. I feel like they played a bit more competently.

And as a result, it's easier to see the confusing speed physics folks were complaining about. Not sure why Sonic doesn't run faster when going down an incline when he does so just fine in Mania and Generations.

Weird.

Nah, that's the same footage as the US Sonic Channel uploaded. The messier one was IGN's footage:

Also, in terms of looks of the level, I've been reserving judgement until we get some clear, HD screenshots of the level due to the graininess of the video. Now that we do, though...

Eeeeeeeh

On one hand we've got moments like this, where the level looks relatively nice at times. It's not my favorite, but it is nice to look at in a way...

But on the other hand we've got moments like this. Something about it just feels... off. Like it was built with Unity lighting rather than Hedgehog engine 2.0 lighting. Almost reminds me of LittleBigPlanet in a way...

I really don't know how to feel about this zone. I loved Silent Forest for Lost World, so this level should be my jam, but... I don't know about this one...

[Alienrun]

On 9/26/2017 at 10:24 AM, Jango said:

It's not about maturity, but experience. The level presented here isn't acceptable for a 26 years old franchise. I know Generations' mods made in months that look better than this 4 years game. 

Just wanna say I don't think you did anything wrong by asking that question, its perfectly fine to ask in almost any situation!

[Waveshocker Sigma]

12 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Nah, that's the same footage as the US Sonic Channel uploaded. The messier one was IGN's footage:

 

No, I've never seen this footage. The only video I've seen before the JP one is on the US channel cause that's where Classic Sonic rolls down a hill and somehow clings to the wall on the way down. He doesn't do that in the JP one cause he's running down that hill instead.

They're different.

[Ayliffe]

2 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

The only video I've seen before the JP one is on the US channel cause that's where Classic Sonic rolls down a hill and somehow clings to the wall on the way down.

...no, that's from the IGN video with the HUD. The HUD-less one on the US channel has him running down it, just like in the JP vid... probably 'cos they're the same vid :V

[Waveshocker Sigma]

1 minute ago, Ayliffe said:

...no, that's from the IGN video with the HUD. The HUD-less one on the US channel has him running down it, just like in the JP vid... probably 'cos they're the same vid :V

Look, all I'm saying is that I'm subscribed to the US Sonic channel, not IGN, and have notifications to pop up in the lower right corner for when videos pop up. That's how I saw the video and that's where I saw the rolling.

I don't know if the video was swapped a few minutes later after the initial upload or what, but that's the only one I ever watched, so that has to be where I saw the rolling. That, or possibly just from an animated gif someone else posted, which would make more sense for the possible mix-up since I only ever glance at those in passing. So in that aspect, I'm probably mistaken and that's how I saw the rolling.

But whether I saw it in a gif or a video, I've only watched one video and have the history to prove it. That much, I know I'm right about, so both of you can quit trying to tell me what I did and try considering other possibilities like I just did above, thank you.

[Dr. Detective]

I didn't notice anything. Granted I don't see it in the original video either really. Only when people post super slow mo gifs do I spot anything.

It's whatever though. I don't really care if he's going slightly slower or faster down a slope. I just need this game to come out so we can get busy being disappointed by the next one.

[DiamondX]

People like to complain about Forces' level design and conpare it with Mania, but Mania also had it's bad levels.

 

Titanic Monarch (both acts) is a mess and Lava Reef Act 1 is very linear.

[StaticMania]

Who's gonna compare a mediocre level to a good game's bad level?

It doesn't really seem worth bringing up.

[The Deleter]

29 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

Look, all I'm saying is that I'm subscribed to the US Sonic channel, not IGN, and have notifications to pop up in the lower right corner for when videos pop up. That's how I saw the video and that's where I saw the rolling.

I don't know if the video was swapped a few minutes later after the initial upload or what, but that's the only one I ever watched, so that has to be where I saw the rolling. That, or possibly just from an animated gif someone else posted, which would make more sense for the possible mix-up since I only ever glance at those in passing. So in that aspect, I'm probably mistaken and that's how I saw the rolling.

But whether I saw it in a gif or a video, I've only watched one video and have the history to prove it. That much, I know I'm right about, so both of you can quit trying to tell me what I did and try considering other possibilities like I just did above, thank you.

Whoa, I wasn't trying to tell you what you did or anything; just that we've had both of these videos alongside each other since they revealed it in the first place, and it's not different from the US one, as it happens...

If they changed it out for the other vid in the process, that's all well and good. It'd explain some things on your end of the experience. But we're just talking about the end results of the uploads here...?

[Polkadi~☆]

49 minutes ago, Diamond Dragon X said:

People like to complain about Forces' level design and conpare it with Mania, but Mania also had it's bad levels.

 

Titanic Monarch (both acts) is a mess and Lava Reef Act 1 is very linear.

It's not about comparing specific zones, but comparing their level design philosophy. Mania's level design opens up multiple paths and unique setups of gimmicks, with platforming sections and high speed sections. Forces kinda... Doesn't, disappointingly. Or it does, but poorly. It's painfully linear, and the alternate routes are like a centimetre off the beaten path. Platforming is shallow, and high speed sections are entirely for show. And unlike Mania, Forces appears to automate you along, instead of letting you find the way. Granted, Mania does have some automation itself, but it doesn't use it to tell you where to go, but it uses it to make sure you don't fall off the track in a high speed section, which the classic games also do (and you can easily defy the automation, unlike Forces). And Mania has this nifty little level design trick by using rings to tell you where to go, while Forces puts dash pads everywhere with rings showcasing the obvious way to go.

I would like to state this is what I've gathered from what we've seen of the game. Hopefully, other zones can prove this wrong, I would so love it to. But until then, these have gotta be tutorial levels, they're far too easy and plain, compared to previous games.

Also, the Xen chapters in Half-Life sucks monkey balls, but it doesn't stop Half-Life from being a magnificent game, so it's not exactly worth bringing up.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

I think what the level design really boils down too is that Mania was designed for Sonic veterans, while Sonic Forces design is based on newcomers and kids.
I personally love Sonic Mania's level design and think it's great, but several of my friends/ family members who don't play Sonic as much tend to get trapped, confused by the changing directions, intimidated by the optional paths. I suppose Sonic Team is tailoring their level design for those people more then for us.

But man, haha, when I saw that Casino level for the first time I was super impressed.
Oh wow, it looks like an actual Sonic level this time, it's almost as good as the Casino night level in Generations 3ds!
And then that realization. Wait, why am I impressed a 2017 triple A 4 year in development Sonic game is Almost as good as an Okayish cheaply made handheld game from 2011?

Still, I'm mostly with Detective Mike up there.
Yeah, it's a waste they don't put a bit more elbow grease into these levels and it does make the game a bit flat. But it's not so much a deal breaker for me.|I'm more a full experience kind of guy rather then perfection of gameplay. If I cared for incredible gameplay I wouldn't be interested in 95% of Sonic's history to begin with, probably.

I'm starting to think that the design philosphy of Forces is the antithesis of Generations.
Generations' levels were fully designed for arcade style replay value, replaying the same levels over and over to get all the red coins and better scores, hence the multiple paths, open area's and increased interactivity of set pieces. But then as most audiences rejected the importance of replayability and bashed the game into the ground for being too short anyway, Sonic Team went with the opposite route and make levels super linair, automated, red coins more obvious....

...And I would have to ASSUME they do this in order to create more levels and content created for a more disposable "play it once and be done with it" mentality.
That, and the forementioned focus on pleasing people who don't know how to play Sonic games over pleasing veterans.
So I suppose from that angle, this game truly isn't Generations 2.

[BlueFlare]

3 hours ago, Diamond Dragon X said:

People like to complain about Forces' level design and conpare it with Mania, but Mania also had it's bad levels.

 

Titanic Monarch (both acts) is a mess and Lava Reef Act 1 is very linear.

TMZ was blast for me, loved Act 1 especially. Never cared much about Lava Reef but it was OK in Mania. I would say Mania's "bad" levels still rank much higher than anything in Forces so far. Like people said above, it's about how the levels plays. Mania levels have many paths and secrets to find. I'm on my fifth playthrough, still find new stuff in every level.

[RK64]

I watched this when it was released and...it looks so bland. When I think of a Casino Forest, I'm picturing trees that fling you around massive pinball tables mixed-in with nature. Loops mixing and matching natural Earth and neon colors. Pinball tables looking slightly rusty and worn down. Buildings in the background being brand new but covered with thick jungles. Heck, I could see some animals playing with leftover casino coins in the background. 

This is a stage concept that could be really fresh and fun!

...

So why does it look so lifeless and generic? This zone (Classic's take at least) really feels as if they slapped together the one Casino stage from Lost World with that same game's 'Silent Forest Zone'. It doesn't look very original at all outside of the concept and...that sucks. Level design looks 'meh' but I'm with Roger regarding WHY Classics levels are so boring; they are purposely making them that way to make it 'easy' for casual sonic players.

But um...why? If you thought Classic was unappealing for people, just let him chill in Sonic Mania and focus Forces squarely on the Modern and Avatar gameplay. Forces continue to baffle me and I'm just hoping it will be an okay game in the end. At least Modern's levels will be fun and I sorta like what I've seen from the Avatar footage.