Jump to content
Operationgamer17

New Sonic Forces Zone revealed: Casino Forest

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Why does he plummet straight down when rolling, but glides off normally when running?

Wait that can't be-

6FCOKk.gif.1e6f33a37cf8bd1db86da5097aa65146.gif

Huh, you're right. Why the hell does it do that? I honestly don't know. Shouldn't it behave the same whether he's rolling or not? So when he plummeted straight down, was that a glitch or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

No, you got it wrong. The physics aren't worse in Forces compared to Generations. It's just different. You see, Sonic now has a ground speed cap unless he is jumping or rolling, just like in Sonic 1. You can see this clearly in the IGN footage, where Sonic increases in speed when rolling, and ends up going higher than when running. It's not worse, just different.

59caaa8d66405_Screenshot2017-09-2612_29_00.thumb.png.11cc5383ca4f80c42b2368c47dea78cb.png

59caaa59b8dc5_Screenshot2017-09-2612_28_02.thumb.png.39bd52fd1c96fc8f1a996f3de7589201.png

 

If by "doesn't behave normally" is just "different" and not "worse", then sure. But they do not behave normally, and this example you brought up is another case of that in action.

yiAu3rr.gif

0P0SGRu.gif

If you want to make a case where rolling is the cause of the bottom example launching further than the other, that doesn't make sense, as he only activated the roll when traveling uphill. Otherwise both players have the same speed, and typically running uphill is faster than rolling, even in the classics.

The real reason this happens is most likely due to the fact that the player on the bottom hit a speed booster, thus enabling "natural physics mode" in the first place. But even if it isn't the reason, these physics are inconsistent as all getout, and it's definitely a flaw. You don't want your game to be unpredictable in how it controls, do you? Consistency is key for objectively good controls and physics, especially in a platformer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

Wait that can't be-

6FCOKk.gif.1e6f33a37cf8bd1db86da5097aa65146.gif

Huh, you're right. Why the hell does it do that? I honestly don't know. Shouldn't it behave the same whether he's rolling or not? So when he plummeted straight down, was that a glitch or something?

It's the best kind of glitch, an intentional decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Gemster312 said:

Sonic seems to like to glue to walls in this game when in ball mode (as shown in the gif many times)

It looks like as sonic is falling, he's against the wall, and as the wall ends, its actually a curved edge (rounded corner)

Thus, as sonic is glued to the wall, and he hits the curved corner, his vertical momentum converts slightly into horizontal momentum to stick along the curve.

Since Sonic isn't glued to ceilings, he de-attaches at 45degress through the curve, and upon hitting the ground uncurls, but still has a good amount of horizontal momentum thanks to that split-momentum rounded wall/ceiling corner.

 

At least that's what it looks like.

Just to add onto this explanation,

Attached are 3 images.

1. -Blue lines indicating directly above sonic (showing that he did in fact have horizontal movement)
2. -Green lines indicating where we expected sonic to be (since it looks like a perfectly vertical drop, but apparentally isnt)
3. -Red lines showing his movement path (notice how for a frame he twitches to the left and then curves back getting launched to the right)

Since he already had such immense speeds AND had even the slightest amount of horizontal momentum, all of that vertical momentum converted to horizontal momentum as if he his a slope.
Weird? Yes. Scripted? No. Just funky physics.

temp1.png

temp2.png

temp3.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First impressions

 

i actually like the concept, a casino in the middle of a forest, but it doesn't seem to be done well. The gimmicks are just casino night, except worse level design and worse music in a game with worse physics. However, despite that, I think it's the best level seen yet. The rings seem oddly placed though, like near the end when there are just giant squares of rings placed around, and why are there no enemies? 

 

I think this level could benefit from having forest gimmicks or Ruin gimmicks mixed in with the casino gimmicks. Logs? Branches and stuff? 

 

Overall - interesting concept, but really just a worse casino night with a forest background woven into it. However, it seems like it will look beautiful in-game (the graphics) and I don't think the music is that bad. Defintally the best forces level so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

IIf you want to make a case where rolling is the cause of the bottom example launching further than the other, that doesn't make sense, as he only activated the roll when traveling uphill. Otherwise both players have the same speed, and typically running uphill is faster than rolling, even in the classics.

The real reason this happens is most likely due to the fact that the player on the bottom hit a speed booster, thus enabling "natural physics mode" in the first place. But even if it isn't the reason, these physics are inconsistent as all getout, and it's definitely a flaw. You don't want your game to be unpredictable in how it controls, do you? Consistency is key for objectively good controls and physics, especially in a platformer.

You are forgetting about the speed cap. Remember, in Sonic 1 the speed cap applies unless you are rolling or jumping. In other words, the speed cap is only removed when you are in a ball. Both players in the video hit the speed booster, not just the player at the bottom. But only the player on the bottom went into a ball. By rolling into a ball, he was able to remove the speed cap, which allows him to go farther.

EDIT: I rewatched the IGN video. He doesn't roll while going uphill. He decides to roll either as he hits the the speed booster or slightly after, so while he's still going down. Just wanted to note that.

59cab0fa1426c_Screenshot2017-09-2612_56_21.thumb.png.db38891283147c139d2ee595df3674a1.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First impressions

 

i actually like the concept, a casino in the middle of a forest, but it doesn't seem to be done well. The gimmicks are just casino night, except worse level design and worse music in a game with worse physics. However, despite that, I think it's the best level seen yet. The rings seem oddly placed though, like near the end when there are just giant squares of rings placed around, and why are there no enemies? 

 

I think this level could benefit from having forest gimmicks or Ruin gimmicks mixed in with the casino gimmicks. Logs? Branches and stuff? 

 

Overall - interesting concept, but really just a worse casino night with a forest background woven into it. However, it seems like it will look beautiful in-game (the graphics) and I don't think the music is that bad. Defintally the best forces level so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

You can see this clearly in the IGN footage, where Sonic increases in speed when rolling, and ends up going higher than when running.

I think it's likelier that those segments were just scripted differently rather than there being actual legacy-esque physics at play.

Sonic 4 Episode 2 featured the same thing. There were some areas where you could actually gain speed by rolling downhill compared to just running, like at the very beginning of Sylvania Castle's Act 2. Unfortunately this wasn't because the game was using a vastly improved (or even different) physics engine, but rather that portion of the level design was just scripted to have Sonic behave that way to make it appear that they had improved most of the physics issues that were present in Episode 1.

The Sonic Forces devs are obviously doing something similar, like what was done with Classic Sonic in Generations. Just covering obvious physics booboos with script band-aids. Of course this just results in the game feeling janky all around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What an age we live in. A new stage. I like it, but imo it'd probably look a bit better with sunset colours in the background to give a contrast to the neon green. Red is also a complimentary colour to green so it should in theory go well together. Music is decent, but it lacks oomph. Kinda a bit too chill.

Level design is also just about OK. What isn't ok is the unnecessary automation. Those sideways half-pipes a la Hydrocity which you'd normally just spindash to overcome in classics now have speed boosters. Why? Gens!Classic has a stupidly OP spindash so these things shouldn't even be a problem with the slightly borked physics. Here its almost like they don't trust the player to be capable of overcoming such a simple physics problem.

I just don't understand this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

You are forgetting about the speed cap. Remember, in Sonic 1 the speed cap applies unless you are rolling or jumping. In other words, the speed cap is only removed when you are in a ball. Both players in the video hit the speed booster, not just the player at the bottom. But only the player on the bottom went into a ball. Even though he went into a roll while going uphill, that still removed the speed cap, which allowed him to go farther.

No, the speed cap applies when travelling downhill. You go a set speed if you're running slightly downhill, but travel faster when you roll. It applies to the ability to gain speed, not a checkbox that says "he's got enough speed" as you seem to think the game behaves. (I wouldn't be surprised, but it'd still be bad in that case)

He didn't roll when travelling downhill. He rolled once he was already at the very bottom of the hill and then traveled upwards. And again, that speed cap shouldn't matter when they're going the same speed in the first place. There's no difference other than that one person came from the lower-path and rolled at the bottom of the hill, and the other person came from the higher path.

That's not natural. That's not what the classics did. That's not what Sonic 1 did. And that's not what Generations did, either. This is specific only to this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

No, you got it wrong. The physics aren't worse in Forces compared to Generations. It's just different. You see, Sonic now has a ground speed cap unless he is jumping or rolling, just like in Sonic 1. You can see this clearly in the IGN footage, where Sonic increases in speed when rolling, and ends up going higher than when running. It's not worse, just different.

No, that is worse, not just different. It's unintuitive design that got polished out of the classic games for a reason. You shouldn't be slowed down by holding the direction you're going. And letting go of the Dpad/stick to try to keep your speed means having it get eaten away by Sonic's natural deceleration anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

You are forgetting about the speed cap. Remember, in Sonic 1 the speed cap applies unless you are rolling or jumping. In other words, the speed cap is only removed when you are in a ball. Both players in the video hit the speed booster, not just the player at the bottom. But only the player on the bottom went into a ball. Even though he went into a roll while going uphill, that still removed the speed cap, which allowed him to go farther.

I think that just makes the ramp itself scripted and binary, getting a fixed arch based on if you're running or rolling, not that there's a speed cap involved, because since in both videos both players are traveling at the same speed thanks to the booster, they should've both launched in the same arch in the air. Also the guy who rolled did it at the very last second as he got off the ramp, so it shouldn't have been that much of a difference.

That other post you quoted with the spindash snapping to the wall goes to show there is no type of momentum physics going on at all to even be speed capped. Everything's just binary and already predetermined based on whether you roll or run .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

Not really, it's not a start. T

Should clarify. I wasn't talking about the game with that. I was spouting hope that we could possibly just have a cordial back-and-forth.

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

Why are you trying to whiteknight this game on every single aspect when I am providing you video evidence that it has glaring issues?

A horribly jaundiced response like that shows I was wrong. What the hell man? Is it impossible to just have a conversation or debate of this game without stooping to that??

You said there were absolutely no physics. And that opinionated statement was proven contradictory. That isn't white knighting. I even provided evidence with the video too. Throw shade at the game all you want, but not your peers for pointing stuff out like that.

And again, your incorrect assumptions of me, lead you down a needless path of trying to paint me as some blind defender of this game when I don't even have a stance on either of the two extremes.

There are plenty of people here who have been able to express their criticisms negative or positive without being so disrespectful to others.

Let's actually debate the game itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way I see it is that things from the Classic Sonic Dimension are being warped into the Modern Sonic Dimension.

Green Hill zone gets warped into a Desert.
Casino Night zone gets warped into a Jungle.

It's not that Eggman is rebuilding weird things like a copy of Casino Night in the modern world, but rather that original zone (hence why the slot machine uses CLASSIC ICONS) are being merged into the modern dimension in weird places.

It's also why there is giant spikey vines attacking the casino in the background later in the act, as clearly it wasn't BUILT there, but rather landed there and nature is trying to tear it down.

Classic Sonic, along with many things from Classic Sonic's Dimension being pulled into this dimension and just dropped places.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

No, the speed cap applies when travelling downhill. You go a set speed if you're running slightly downhill, but travel faster when you roll. It applies to the ability to gain speed, not a checkbox that says "he's got enough speed" as you seem to think the game behaves. (I wouldn't be surprised, but it'd still be bad in that case)

He didn't roll when travelling downhill. He rolled once he was already at the very bottom of the hill and then traveled upwards. And again, that speed cap shouldn't matter when they're going the same speed in the first place. There's no difference other than that one person came from the lower-path and rolled at the bottom of the hill, and the other person came from the higher path.

That's not natural. That's not what the classics did. That's not what Sonic 1 did. And that's not what Generations did, either. This is specific only to this game.

Yeah, sorry. My initial post was a bit wrong. I should have watched the IGN video before hand. I've corrected it now. He rolls either right as he hits the booster or right after. I can't really tell, but it is definitely as he is moving downhill. That is why I think it is a speed cap situation.

4 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

I think that just makes the ramp itself scripted and binary, getting a fixed arch based on if you're running or rolling, not that there's a speed cap involved, because since in both videos both players are traveling at the same speed thanks to the booster, they should've both launched in the same arch in the air. Also the guy who rolled did it at the very last second as he got off the ramp, so it shouldn't have been that much of a difference.

That other post you quoted with the spindash snapping to the wall goes to show there is no type of momentum physics going on at all to even be speed capped. Everything's just binary.

Again, they aren't moving at the same speed after hitting the booster because the guy rolled as he hit the booster, which would increase his top speed. It isn't binary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who was it that said "At least the springs are not hidden" well surprise!

DKrC96zVwAAZXO2?format=jpg

DKrC_C2UQAAE3VG?format=jpg

And if you think that's a one off. I have news for you.

DKrE5uiUMAAdWE3?format=jpg

DKrE6qDUEAAHbsU?format=jpg

Those of you who are having secret PM conversations about this game, what do you think about this?

 

Because it looks really amateur to me.

 

Edit: Dammit beaten. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.