Sonic Forces - Chemical Plant is back

[JosepHenry]

13 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Ok it's not Sonic Generations 2.

It's Sonic Generations Two.

 

Ok look is not an overused joke.

It's an overused joke.

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, Creep Dude said:

Speaking of which, I'm getting really sick of this whole Generations 2 fiasco.

Well then don't make Classic and modern separte gameplays,rip them almost straight from gens with slight alterations, and reuse the same levels from Generations, idk just an idea

[Nakasu]

Here's hoping the next Mania Styled and Modern Sonic game have 100% completely new and original levels. It's tiring seeing more of the same levels. I was hoping Generations would be the end of it, but Mania proved otherwise.

[Ayliffe]

39 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

What exactly is Chemical Plant supposed to be...? 

My money's on "bad"

But yeah, having looked at the screenshots I'm really not digging it. I was kinda miffed about CPZ when first hearing about it in Mania, but I was completely sold as soon as I laid eyes on it - it took the initial idea of a bright, neon-coloured mechanical factory and turned it up to 11 with gorgeous visuals, neat new mechanics that actually made sense within the level's theme and funky-as-hell music. Meanwhile in Forces, instead of something true to the original's spirit we've got the drabbest visuals known to man and straight line gameplay with no mechanics taking cues from the level's theming.

So, uh, yeah - I don't like it, I don't like it one bit.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

And some people actually doubted Chemical Plant would make it's way back in Forces. YoHo hoo! Can't wait for them to reveal Sky Sanctuary next!

Seriously this game is nothing but a recycled & remixed Sonic Generations with little extra new added on top... And they actually were trying to pass this off as not Sonic Generations 2 once upon a time? So shameful. I can see why for multiple reasons now that this game is $40... It reeks of being a quickly made low budget title.

PS: This is the most boringly ugly version of Chemical Plant to look at yet... Sonic Team where'd did your artistic taste go?

[Salamander]

Casino Forest was revealed exactly a week ago, with Classic Sonic gameplay.

Chemical Plant was revealed today, with Custom Hero gameplay.

A week from now: Another new zone, with Modern Sonic gameplay?

[Badnik Mechanic]

22 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

Ok look is not an overused joke.

It's an overused joke.

Just like all the level design & gameplay for this game!

[PaddyFancy]

This really should have been the actual Sonic Generations instead of what we ended up getting in 2011.

[Dee Dude]

If was "true to the original's spirit" it would've looked even more "recycled and remixed".

Everything else had it's reasons but I'm genuinely not understanding the complaints here.

Generations had the bright and vibrant Chemical Plant reimagined in HD, simple as that.

Mania reuses the colorful level but adds twists and turns to it that gives a new experience.

Forces also reuses the level reimagined in 8th gen graphics, but changes the aesthetics to fit the overall theme of this by making barren, cloudy and full of battleships fitting Eggman's takeover and may I mention we haven't even seen gameplay yet?

What is the problem?

[Dr. Mechano]

Ah, I'm glad to see them pick a returning zone that we haven't seen in a while.

[Ultimate Victory 64]

Just now, Soniman said:

Eggman winning should mean Chemical Plant should be THRIVING, not a broken down piece of shit, what?

Would you mind to explain what you mean by thriving?

[Multikaris]

12 minutes ago, Creep Dude said:

If was "true to the original's spirit" it would've looked even more "recycled and remixed".

Everything else had it's reasons but I'm genuinely not understanding the complaints here.

Generations had the bright and vibrant Chemical Plant reimagined in HD, simple as that.

Mania reuses the colorful level but adds twists and turns to it that gives a new experiences.

Forces also reuses the level reimagined in 8th gen graphics, but changes the aesthetics to fit the overall theme of this by making barren, cloudy and full of battleships fitting Eggman's takeover and may I mention we haven't even seen gameplay yet?

What is the problem?

Further, I'd argue MANIA is more Generations 2 than Forces. Bringing back a long awaited playable character? Check. Mostly/entirely old zones? Check. Goofy tone? Check. Time/space warps everywhere? Check. Marketed largely to nerds? Check. Less than 3-dimensional new robot antagonists? Check. Revisited bosses? Well, a handful, so a half-check in this case. Taking advantage of memes? Check. Character cameos hidden away? Check. Final boss is in a time/space warp? Check. Minimal explanations for things? Check. Similar musical stylings? Check. Pushing hardware to its limits? It pushes a different hardware than what's released, so that's anther half-check. Two half checks make one whole, so that's 12 checks so far. Metal Sonic lacks fanfare or relevance? Check. Heck, even the wanted posters are seen, so that's another check. Enabling old abilities as an unlockable option? Check. GHZ's underground cave falls? Check. Eggman remaining main villain no matter what two dimensional or less Machine seems to upstage him? Check.

[Dr. Mechano]

4 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Less than 3-dimensional new robot antagonists? 

Check-a-rooney.

[KHCast]

6 minutes ago, PaddyFancy said:

This really should have been the actual Sonic Generations instead of what we ended up getting in 2011.

Please no. I'd take that 100 times over this.

5 minutes ago, Creep Dude said:

If was "true to the original's spirit" it would've looked even more "recycled and remixed".

Everything else had it's reasons but I'm genuinely not understanding the complaints here.

Generations had the bright and vibrant Chemical Plant reimagined in HD, simple as that.

Mania reuses the colorful level but adds twists and turns to it that gives a new experiences.

Forces also reuses the level reimagined in 8th gen graphics, but changes the aesthetics to fit the overall theme of this by making barren, cloudy and full of battleships fitting Eggman's takeover and may I mention we haven't even seen gameplay yet?

What is the problem?

Why not use a level not done to death? If you're already making original assets and essentially make it look like a new level, use something else. You're still end of the day using the same level again and again despite the differences.

By you're logic here, you may as well not get the issue people had a while back with green hill clones, since they had some differences.

[Multikaris]

Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

Check-a-roony.

We don't know enough about this villain yet. But it's clear the Heavies are two-dimensional at best. 

[DiamondX]

3 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Further, I'd argue MANIA is more Generations 2 than Forces. Bringing back a long awaited playable character? Check. Mostly/entirely old zones? Check. Goofy tone? Check. Time/space warps everywhere? Check. Marketed largely to nerds? Check. Less than 3-dimensional new robot antagonists? Check. Revisited bosses? Well, a handful, so a half-check in this case. Taking advantage of memes? Check. Character cameos hidden away? Check. 

It's Mania. You can't say anything negative about it without fanboys jumping in.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Creep Dude said:

If was "true to the original's spirit" it would've looked even more "recycled and remixed".

Everything else had it's reasons but I'm genuinely not understanding the complaints here.

Generations had the bright and vibrant Chemical Plant reimagined in HD, simple as that.

Mania reuses the colorful level but adds twists and turns to it that gives a new experiences.

Forces also reuses the level reimagined in 8th gen graphics, but changes the aesthetics to fit the overall theme of this by making barren, cloudy and full of battleships fitting Eggman's takeover and may I mention we haven't even seen gameplay yet?

What is the problem?

The problem is that they remade Chemical Plant again and it looks ugly and boring.

This isn't complicated, dude. We've had more than enough Chemical Plant at this point. Even setting Mania aside, since this was probably planned before that, we just saw a remade Chemical Plant in Generations, with only one Sonic Team game between them. That is kind of ridiculous, and really speaks to how this series is relying more and more on nostalgia. And this one doesn't even manage to look interesting compared to the ones we've already played. It doesn't need to look exactly like the others, but it should have some kind of visual appeal, and not just gray on gray. And if they made it look like this to match the game's theme/aesthetic/whatever, that just tells me that the whole game is misguided, because Sonic levels should not look this dull.

[Dr. Mechano]

I feel like the use of GHZ, Chemical Plant, and (probably) Sky Sanctuary were chosen less for nostalgia and more because they already had those assets left over from Generations. Same reason they reused the Egg Dragoon.

It isn't even nostalgia-pandering. It's laziness. Just taking the same level assets and modifying them a bit to be less visually eye-catching, to "fit the tone of the game," ostensibly. Yeah, Mania reused old zones, but it brought those zones to life with eye-popping, visually-appealing custom graphics made from scratch for the game. It looked gorgeous, and while I would have preferred all-new zones, the Mania crew really squeezed as much style and life out of those old zones as they could. It was anything but lazy, which I can't say for this.

[Dee Dude]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Check-a-rooney.

I didn't know Infinite was a robot.

@KHCast @Diogenes

I do get those criticisms, I don't want the same damn Gens/Mania stages as much as everyone else but I was focusing on the complaints on the aesthetics and how it's inferior to them, but I completely understand your arguments, I'll admit myself, they appear to be a bit dull and the fact they didn't just make them original stages themselves is dumb but what I'm hoping for is that Forces will find some way to make them stand out by even the littlest.

[KHCast]

8 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Further, I'd argue MANIA is more Generations 2 than Forces. Bringing back a long awaited playable character? Check. Mostly/entirely old zones? Check. Goofy tone? Check. Time/space warps everywhere? Check. Marketed largely to nerds? Check. Less than 3-dimensional new robot antagonists? Check. Revisited bosses? Well, a handful, so a half-check in this case. Taking advantage of memes? Check. Character cameos hidden away? Check. Final boss is in a time/space warp? Check. Minimal explanations for things? Check. Similar musical stylings? Check. Pushing hardware to its limits? It pushes a different hardware than what's released, so that's anther half-check.

Most of these "comparisons" are completely petty, pointless, and overlook that one is a classic styled adventure with limitations in certain areas vs a full 3D sonic game that was simply too lazy to do most of said stuff. not to mention, Forces you're acting like you know doesn't do a lot of this stuff. Forces does more of the bigger important things generations is known for, separate styles, modern and classic, using the same levels, and does them not as well as gens, so I'm more willing to forgive Mania for perhaps doing some super small things similar to Gens that no one will seriously think of when comparing the two

[Lord-Dreamerz]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 It doesn't need to look exactly like the others,

Exactly. If it was covered in ice like one person said, basically making it Chemical Plant mixed with Ice Cap zone... that would had been more interesting then just a grayer ugly Chemical Plant with ships far off in the BG... I suppose there's a chance we might go into the ships in a later act... but that doesn't make the current act we are looking at any cooler.

 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I can see why for multiple reasons now that this game is $40... It reeks of being a quickly made low budget title.

Which is the remarkable/laughable/horrifying thing - this is a game that's had around DOUBLE the typical development time of an average Sonic game.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

You guys are killjoys.

Like, you're literally destroying any small kind of hope I have for this game. To the point I may have to turn my brain off to enjoy Forces.

[Multikaris]

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Most of these "comparisons" are completely petty, pointless, and overlook that one is a classic styled adventure with limitations in certain areas vs a full 3D sonic game that was simply too lazy to do most of said stuff. not to mention, Forces you're acting like you know doesn't do a lot of this stuff. Forces does more of the bigger important things generations is known for, separate styles, modern and classic, using the same levels, and does them not as well as gens, so I'm more willing to forgive Mania for perhaps doing some super small things similar to Gens that no one will seriously think of when comparing the two

I am aware Forces does many of those same things, but the thing is that it does some of those things better (old foes returning, additional playstyles), and others worse (classic sonic). And really, other than the old villains coming back, the two are only really tied in heir basic gameplay premise. Mania, meanwhile, has actual sections and direct nods to Generations. And more my point is that Forces has an even ratio of old to new levels ATM, while Mania is focused on old stages.

[Dr. Mechano]

5 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

You guys are killjoys.

Like, you're literally destroying any small kind of hope I have for this game. To the point I may have to turn my brain off to enjoy Forces.

You're allowed to like a game even if other people don't.

We're allowed to dislike it even if other people like it.

Our opinions don't have to sway each other, but they certainly can.

 

Bottom line; You're free to like what you like and are even free to ignore our naysaying, but I do think that if us pointing out problems we have with the game is all it takes to ruin your fun, then maybe the game wasn't that great to begin with? If it's a genuinely good game, then you shouldn't care whether we like it or not and just enjoy it for what it is, and the fact that our criticism makes the game seem less fun to you might be more indicative of problems with the game than problems with its detractors. That's my takeaway, anyhow.