Sonic Forces - Chemical Plant is back

[Shiny Gems]

2 minutes ago, Jack the Rookie said:

Criticism is one thing, being cynical, snarky and a killjoy about everything is way different. Most people have a beef with the game because of its choices.

Exactly! There is a difference between being cynical/snarky/a killjoy and giving criticism. You can give criticism without being cynical or a killjoy and ruining the hype for others that have it.

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, Jack the Rookie said:

Criticism is one thing, being cynical, snarky and a killjoy about everything is way different. Most people have a beef with the game because of its choices.

All the people have a beef with the game because of its choices...it will never be anything other than its choices that people have a problem with.

 

It's because of those choices people are constantly cynical, snarky, or making fun of it.

[NegaMix]

58 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

So Gamereactor have done an interview with Nakamura about the game. They also talked a little bit about Chemical Plant and how it's... frozen over. Huh. I guess someone got what they wanted lol.

...Wait. So they ARE doing a frozen Chemical Plant? Huh.

It certainly doesn't look like it's been 'frozen over' in those images. But I guess if any video previews show off more 'ice-level' tropes here, then consider me interested.

[Patron]

4 hours ago, Captain Metallix said:

Man, this version of Chemical Plant just looks so... dull. Where are the vibrant colours? Why is the sky nowhere near as interesting? WHY IS IT NOT COVERED IN ICE?!

You'd think that Eggman - freaking EGGMAN - taking over the world would yield more distinct visuals. But instead, it's all kinda... boring to look at.

Oh, and the Drill Wisp seems to be a dash attack. I guess it'll get a lot of use in 2D segments, but some '3D' areas might be more difficult/tedious with it.

Then again all his creations seem to have lost their usual touch. Everything's for the most part very clean and minimalistic (sans Casino Forest, although that might just be displaced into the Forest through Phantom Ruby shenanigans), unlike his more grandiose designs.

Since we're still reiterating, I'm taking a Heroes last story with Lost World "surprise" end boss to go, please.

[Detective Kaito]

31 minutes ago, Jack the Rookie said:

Criticism is one thing, being cynical, snarky and a killjoy about everything is way different. Most people have a beef with the game because of its choices.

Sorry, but it can't be helped. Everything about this game looks like crap to me. All its stages are unoriginal and dull, the gameplay is the same with nothing new added, the level design is bland and uninteresting, almost everything from the gameplay to the level design to the stages to the bosses is recycled.

After Sonic Generations, the bar for 3D Sonic games has been set high, and nothing Sonic Team has done in the past 6 years comes close to that.

[TCB]

Yo is there like video of this stage? Don't wanna comb through this thread (except for the last couple of pages, I just had to read for my amusement) to find it.

[Patron]

1 minute ago, TCB said:

Yo is there like video of this stage? Don't wanna come through this to find it.

Nothing yet on the official channel.

[Diogenes]

Nah, just screenshots so far.

[StaticMania]

Would've seen many user postage of actual game-play criticism if there was a video...

[Waveshocker Sigma]

Hm. This is gonna sound nuts, but considering that Iizuka considers Generations non-canon, I think I get why he doesn't see Forces as Generations 2.

It's because to him, it's more of Sonic Generations "Redux" or "Rebooted". Rather than a sequel to Generations, it's supposed to be a replacement to Generations or a retake on it. Hence Modern and Classic now retconned to being two different people instead of the same person from the same world with a different look. And why we're more than likely gonna have the first 3 stages from Generations again, but with a twist.

I think that's Iizuka's bassackwards confusing as fug explanation behind his persistence on that statement. Not that it makes things any better, but it at least kind of makes a bit more sense in a pointlessly stupid kind of way.

[Polkadi~☆]

Mmhm. I guess it's alright.

I... Don't really have anything to say, considering we all saw it coming.

I AM disappointed, however. That's the THIRD TIME Chemical Plant has appeared in a mainline Sonic game.

[Razule]

17 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

Hm. This is gonna sound nuts, but considering that Iizuka considers Generations non-canon, I think I get why he doesn't see Forces as Generations 2.

It's because to him, it's more of Sonic Generations "Redux" or "Rebooted". Rather than a sequel to Generations, it's supposed to be a replacement to Generations or a retake on it. Hence Modern and Classic now retconned to being two different people instead of the same person from the same world with a different look. And why we're more than likely gonna have the first 3 stages from Generations again, but with a twist.

I think that's Iizuka's bassackwards confusing as fug explanation behind his persistence on that statement. Not that it makes things any better, but it at least kind of makes a bit more sense in a pointlessly stupid kind of way.

-He's never said anything about Generations being canon or not.

-The Japanese website says that Classic Sonic "has helped the Sonic of this world before". Generations is canon.

Generations is canon, but Classic and Modern Sonic are also from alernate dimensions. It doesn't make sense, but eh

[Waveshocker Sigma]

3 minutes ago, Razule said:

-He's never said anything about Generations being canon or not.

-The Japanese website says that Classic Sonic "has helped the Sonic of this world before". Generations is canon.

Generations is canon, but Classic and Modern Sonic are also from alernate dimensions. It doesn't make sense, but eh

In one of the interviews posted on here a month or two ago, he says that Generation's story was only meant to be done as sort of a special celebration thing and not to be taken as a serious event actually happening.

So this is just a case of Iizuka contradicting himself...which is honestly nothing new at this point.

[Tara]

So I know we've moved on, but I'm tired of this being a recurring trend and I know it's going to be brought up again anyway so might as well make my statement before it happens.  I actually don't like the looks of Forces, either, and seeing Chemical Plant returning is frankly making me groan.  Before someone plays that card, no, it was not okay in Sonic Mania, either.  The fact that Sonic Mania actually delivered a competently programmed experience certainly made it more forgivable, but I (and I'm pretty sure everyone else) would have preferred an original stage instead.  With that said, I still usually agree that the cynicism for Forces and snarky remarks are overbearing and make this community... well, pretty miserable at times.  Not going to lie.

But after receiving a few reports, I've looked through this thread and found that honestly, the snark and cynicism is mostly coming from the people looking forward to the game.  Put another way, the people complaining about the negative atmosphere are actually the primary contributors.  And this thread isn't even the only place where this is a problem.  The hypocrisy is frankly astounding.  So as an ultimatum of sorts, any troillbaity comments like "lol this community can't please fans" or "sonic mania fanbois" or whatever will receive disciplinary action at moderator discretion.  If you like what you see in Sonic Forces, great.  Explain why.  We'd love to hear it.  But don't act like you've been personally assaulted when someone disagrees.  The same is true for the opposite side.  If you don't like what you see, tell us why.  If you disagree with someone, calmly explain why.

If you see any instances of harassment (note: harassment is not the same as "someone has an opinion I don't agree with and said as such") simply report it.

On a personal note, I'm one of the few on this forum that actually liked Sonic Lost World, and dear God, you don't want to ever bring that game up if you're sensitive to negativity.  That is to say, I get what it's like to have a minority opinion.  I get what it's like to enjoy something most people hate.  Heck, I enjoy lots of things that everyone hates.  We all do.  It's part of life.  But this is a discussion board, and while I generally agree that perhaps the zealousness this community has is a bit extreme, to get so antsy because people are insulting a game you're looking forward to doesn't exemplify a moral high ground.  It just shows you have a weak resolve, which either means this board simply might not be for you or you need to take a step back and repeat to yourself "hey, this actually isn't such a big deal to be honest."

To recap, no more snarkbait or flame fuel on either side.  If someone is calling you names or doing something actually offensive, report.  As for this topic in particular, let's please keep the conversation focused on Chemical Plant's inclusion in Forces, and not on rather or not you like the way the fandom is responding to it.

[PandaChao]

This game just keeps getting worse the more  things are revealed. It makes you wonder how tight Sonicteam's budget was for this game. They keep reusing assets and it doesn't look good when we just had Chemical Plant Zone return in Sonic Mania. All the levels so far look drab and ugly, somehow the game manages to look like a last generation game. But Sega claims that the hedgehog engine was updated? Lol. These motherfuckers are lying about this game having 4 years of development...just look at it. 

[Salamander]

It seems pretty clear at this point, given the - presently rather superficial, but I'll give it time - frozen-over interpretation of Chemical Plant, that a major theme of the game will be how existing stages have been changed or corrupted in some way by Eggman's rule.  In that respect... it seems ever more likely that Casino Forest and Park Avenue are also based on past zones, with new theming thrown in to distinguish it from Generations.  Maybe Casino Forest really was originally Silent Forest, and Park Avenue (we still don't know the zone's overall true name, do we?) might have been a new take on maybe City Escape?  And they were restyled or at the very least renamed so as to create the illusion of a new-old balance instead of a full-scale Generations-style revisit.  It's not a wholly bad idea, but on the present showing it seems like the developers lack the talent or at least the time to really realise that ambitious goal; Casino Forest and Chemical Plant do not impress very much on a first showing.  With that said, Green Hill Zone feels like three different zones now, so I can entertain the possibility that we'll see something a little prettier out of Casino Forest and Chemical Plant yet.

[Spooky Mulder]

Is anyone certain they’re actually reusing assets for this stage? I’m sure they are for parts of Green Hill, but this looks pretty different from Chemical Plant in Generations.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Spooky Mulder said:

Is anyone certain they’re actually reusing assets for this stage? I’m sure they are for parts of Green Hill, but this looks pretty different from Chemical Plant in Generations.

I wouldn't doubt if there's some stuff they're reusing, but it does look like mostly original assets.

Which kinda makes it extra weird, I could understand (though not agree with) if they brought back CPZ so they could just tweak Generations' assets as a time saver, but if they're making all new assets anyway...why not straight up make a new level?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I wouldn't doubt if there's some stuff they're reusing, but it does look like mostly original assets.

Which kinda makes it extra weird, I could understand (though not agree with) if they brought back CPZ so they could just tweak Generations' assets as a time saver, but if they're making all new assets anyway...why not straight up make a new level?

It seems the idea is to show off what effects Eggman's world domination has had on zones we're familiar with. 

[KHCast]

Just now, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

It seems the idea is to show off what effects Eggman's world domination has had on zones we're familiar with. 

You can do this with other stages in Sonic history...

[GentlemanX]

I can kinda see some frost on the energy plants, but it is pretty minor and at least at this point doesn't look like it'll play much of a role in the level. Maybe in another part though. I'll echo a lot of the criticisms that I wish we could have seen a new level or at least a new re-interpreted love. Much as I love CPZ's music, I am looking forward to something new like Green Hill has. I actually like the new Green Hill music though, but I also like Sonic 4's music so what do I know.

Anyway, I think the thing I have the hardest time understanding are all the complaints about the art direction of the levels that have been on repeat since Park Avenue was first shown. The complaint is that it's not vibrant and colorful, yes? But why would you expect it to be given the direction the game is going for? It's going for a dystopian/ruined/serious take on all of the usually bright and serene environments that usually make up Sonic's games. That means the levels in general are going to look drearier and more hollow. I mean, I suppose you can keep mentioning it if you don't like it, but why bother if the problem is that you just don't care for the core concept of the game?

[Straw Hat]

5 hours ago, ShroomZed said:

Well, okay then. The next stage is Sky Sanctuary, no reason to not believe it is. Fuck this game. 

That mobile game basically confirmed it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I just realised....

If that Episode Shadow thing is accurate and Shadow can be in all Sonic's stages... and given how so far any stage the Avatar is in Sonic is also in...

 

Confirmed level list.

Park Avenue/Sunset Heights.

Green Hill.

Casino Forest.

Chemical Plant.

Unconfirmed Levels

Random Factory/prison stage (seen in story trailer "Let's go partner!" EDIT: This could actually be Chemical Plant)

Space stage (just after the "In 3 days" eggman line)

Hexagon City (seen multiple times during the story mode trailer)

 

3 more to go and that's your lot.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Just now, KHCast said:

You can do this with other stages in Sonic history...

 Your point being?

I'm just elucidating on why it's not some completely new zone despite the new assets. 

While you probably don't prefer these zones,  the unnecessary response doesn't really negate my claim there. 

[Clewis]

Maybe Eggmanland's visuals spoiled me, but none of the environments we've seen so far really sell me on the whole "Eggman's conquered 99% of the world" premise this game is apparently going for. Where's the self-idolizing statues? Why isn't Eggman's face plastered on mundane objects just for the sake of it? Did Eggman happen to lose his theatrical flair when he decided to go for a militaristic-approach in conquering everything? Forces more so looks like Sonic and co. are in the middle of stopping Eggman from completely taking over, honestly. I mean, is Park Avenue that 1% that Eggman has been holding off on taking over for some reason?

It's all a waste of potential, imo. We could have had twisted, Eggman-themed environments, full of neon "OBEY" or "Eggman is Great!" signs, with Eggman personally berating you over an intercom, Colors-style. Instead we got industrial, Bad Future-esque environments, which isn't necessarily bad, but I feel like they could have pushed the idea a little bit more, creatively at least.