Sonic Forces - Chemical Plant is back

[KHCast]

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

 Your point being?

I'm just elucidating on why it's not some completely new zone despite the new assets. 

While you probably don't prefer these zones,  the unnecessary response doesn't really negate my claim there. 

He was asking why not use a different stage not milked, your response came off as a defense to why they went with chemical plant vs anything else

[Jango]

I don't wanna be that guy, but...

Chemical Plant on ice could mean ice physics. WHEN WAS THAT EVER GOOD IN ANY GAME?

Please just stay on the visuals, ST.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just now, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

 Your point being?

I'm just elucidating on why it's not some completely new zone despite the new assets. 

While you probably don't prefer these zones,  the unnecessary response doesn't really negate my claim there. 

I think the issue isn't so much "Oh look Chemical plant again"... .... Well it is that, level apathy is a real thing that Sega needs to start taking notice of, I wrote about such back in April.

Even Mania had supporters of it groaning when Chemical Plant got confirmed, but after we saw more of that stage very few people still complain about it due to how different that stage ended up being. But regardless, the initial groan is nowhere near the level of groan that Forces' Chemical Plant has received... I think the reason being for it is that it just doesn't look at all different to the Generations one, and it just looks even worse than a stage from 5 years ago did. 

Yeah we can only see screenshots. But here's the thing.

If this really is a 'frozen over' Chemical Plant... why are we not seeing that? This is a real natural thing that can and has happened, a Chemical Plant can freeze over due to local environmental issues, and lets not forget all the post nuclear winter movies and TV shows we've seen, even when the survivors get the factories up and running again, they're still frozen over.

So where are the giant icicles hanging from various platforms? Why is there not snow on the path? Why is one of the screenshots not the avatar riding a sleigh off a ramp?

Why is it the only thing that suggests there has been an environmental calamity is...

The tiny bit of snow on the top left of this image which unless you know the stage is supposed to be frozen you would think is just white paint.

[Patron]

1 minute ago, Jango said:

I don't wanna be that guy, but...

Chemical Plant on ice could mean ice physics. WHEN WAS THAT EVER GOOD IN ANY GAME?

Please just stay on the visuals, ST.

As far as Modern is concerned you're boosting anyway, which should negate slipping in any direction different to the one you're already propelling yourself into. The grappling hook might make ice platforming moot for Buddy (maybe the flamethrower can turn the terrain traversable) and Classic already is on automation, you now just finish a bit faster.

[Mad Convoy]

31 minutes ago, PandaChao said:

This game just keeps getting worse the more  things are revealed. It makes you wonder how tight Sonicteam's budget was for this game. They keep reusing assets and it doesn't look good when we just had Chemical Plant Zone return in Sonic Mania. All the levels so far look drab and ugly, somehow the game manages to look like a last generation game. But Sega claims that the hedgehog engine was updated? Lol. These motherfuckers are lying about this game having 4 years of development...just look at it. 

Just curious, where and when did Sega and Sonic Team claim that the game was developed for four years? I know that I believed that before, but then an online friend of mine pointed out that there was not any official statements saying the exact time that the game is developed for. Sure enough, while there were some hints that Sonic Team knew that there was going to be a Sonic game from them after Sonic Lost World and sorted out a few voice acting contracts back in 2014, there was nothing officially stated regarding when the game was getting more time for development. I mean, yes, there was a single statement about how Sega has realized that its important to put time into their games, but they've said and implied that a ton so I am taking it with a huge heaping of salt.

---

As for chemical plant zone, yes, its true that its in character for Eggman to take over everything and I understand Park Avenue, Green Hill Zone, and Casino Forest looking worse for wear (the first two being rebel strongholds, the last one being a casino Eggman presumably built on a whim to replace all that ugly forest). But for stuff that Eggman is actually using, he goes all out. Whether it be Eggmanland of Unleashed, or his entire themepark in Colors (complete with custom eggbots with unique animations and unique themes for each zone)... or if we go back even further, the Death Egg and Classic!Chemical Plant were also very colorful. While I don't hate Chemical Plant's design, I think its the first Forces level that I've felt meh towards as opposed to loving it. I think Chemical Plant is missing is Eggman's trademark brand of flamboyancy and ego. If I were designing this level with it in mind that this is a world where Eggman wins, I'd cover it in Eggman logos, artwork, propaganda posters ("Strike down the Knucklites with your labor!",  "The anti-empire reactionaries will destroy our paradise!", maybe) , and statues, colors all about that are bright and conflict in ways only Eggman could get away with, and loaded with miserable slaves and mindless robots working there. 

[StaticMania]

10 minutes ago, Jango said:

I don't wanna be that guy, but...

Chemical Plant on ice could mean ice physics. WHEN WAS THAT EVER GOOD IN ANY GAME?

Please just stay on the visuals, ST.

It's a good idea in every game, not the developers fault people can't adapt...

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

Just curious, where and when did Sega and Sonic Team claim that the game was developed for four years? I know that I believed that before, but then an online friend of mine pointed out that there was not any official statements saying the exact time that the game is developed for. Sure enough, while there were some hints that Sonic Team knew that there was going to be a Sonic game from them after Sonic Lost World and sorted out a few voice acting contracts back in 2014, there was nothing officially stated regarding when the game was getting more time for development. I mean, yes, there was a single statement about how Sega has realized that its important to put time into their games, but they've said and implied that a ton so I am taking it with a huge heaping of salt.

It was said at Famitsu.

[BestGriff]

1 minute ago, Razule said:

It was said at Famitsu.

Wha-- they worked on this game for four years.  How?

[Razule]

2 minutes ago, BestGriff said:

Wha-- they worked on this game for four years.  How?

Maybe they were retooling Boom Sonic into the custom character

[Scar]

So....Are they just reusing assets and changing little bits like the lighting or time of day? I mean Park Avenue looks like Not Rooftop Run, we have both Green Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone returning....How much time was actually spent actually making this game again? The only totally original stage is Casino Forest. Surely they can't have spent nearly 4 years just doing an asset flip and developing a single new gameplay style and copy/pasted Boost and Classic gameplay.

 

[Zaysho]

13 minutes ago, BestGriff said:

Wha-- they worked on this game for four years.  How?

If I had to guess, a lot of the work probably had to do with the Hedgehog Engine 2 rather than the base game itself, though it was probably in the planning stages around the same time.

[Azeon]

I'm really digging the style of this Chemical Plant. The style is drastically different than the Chemical Plant iterations we've seen and it's refreshing. Matter of fact, the only striking similarity is the name of the stage itself.

Although from the screenshots it looks awfully linear, it's too soon to tell if the entire stage will be like this. I'm really hoping that they'll use the spin-tube mechanic from Sonic 2 and Mania.

[Spooky Mulder]

54 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I wouldn't doubt if there's some stuff they're reusing, but it does look like mostly original assets.

Which kinda makes it extra weird, I could understand (though not agree with) if they brought back CPZ so they could just tweak Generations' assets as a time saver, but if they're making all new assets anyway...why not straight up make a new level?

Yeah it’s super weird to me too. Certain things in Forces make it look like a game with really rushed development featuring a lot of cobbled together elements. Bringing back GHZ, CPZ, and potentially Sky Sanctuary are all things you would do to reuse assets and rush a game after things went south in development. Yet, that doesn’t seem to be the reason they’re doing it.

The thing that’s really starting to concern me about Forces is how it seems to check off all the boxes for laziness...but there’s these lingering indications that maybe that’s giving them too much credit. It’s not laziness, it’s incompetence.

Maybe this is really what they think people want?

[Razule]

I gotta say, the Classic alternate dimension retcon is really freakin' pointlessn considering the classic stages in the Modern world. We can infer that the classic games happened in some form in Modern Sonic's dimension, but.. why? Why add the extra layer of complication? Why separate Classic and Modern Sonic even further? 

[PKGaming]

.....Okay, at this point, Chemical Plant is just as tiring as Green Hill. :/

[Badnik Mechanic]

14 minutes ago, BestGriff said:

Wha-- they worked on this game for four years.  How?

I only know part of what happened in the period mid development - pre-public announcement... I don't know how long ago this time frame was and still trying to work how out I can actually talk about this... but... with regards to the beginning, it was probably one of the following.

 

 

After Sonic Lost World came out and was received worldwide, there was probably a period of general experimentation in the development team, some others moved onto other projects (temporary/permanent depending on what they did), during this Time, the higher ups at Sonic Team and Sega probably held a review of the reception, the development and a few other things, likely that there were multiple meetings.

After this... One of the following....

1: A decision was made to make a sequel to Sonic Generations (This is in terms of gameplay and level design, not a literal sequel). Ideas for stages/designs were made... at some point they toyed with the idea of a third playable character... If that were Boom Sonic or not is anyone's guess (GrappleGun being Boom Sonic's enerbeam).

2: There was a period of time after Sonic Lost World where several smaller teams were putting together smaller pitches for a game or direction to take. Whoever won that pitch session is what the main core of what you see now is... the Avatar may or may not have come during this early pitch or after, it might even have been part of another pitch.

 

Now... at some point between this period and some time prior to the public reveal it's very possible that something has happened *hint hint* which could have meant that development might have changed *hint hint* in some way... that could have been either too ambitious an idea, or the idea wasn't ambitious enough... or something else went very wrong and the project was scaled back to a state which would be salvageable.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

57 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

What the heck is going on with those rings? Is this a new "chain" formation?

[Badnik Mechanic]

12 minutes ago, A Zombie KING heavy engine said:

What the heck is going on with those rings? Is this a new "chain" formation?

My God how did we miss that! The ring is clipping through another ring! 

It would look cool if it were like a chain but that ring is literally clipping through the other... in a press shot!

 

Edit: Wait... This might be explained if those rings are being pulled towards the player? But just checked other video and that's not in effect yet, unless it's a power up?

[Dr. Detective]

Huh.

You know, it doesn't really look like Chemical Plant from those screenshots.

It looks more like the Final Fortress to me.

[Clewis]

12 minutes ago, A Zombie KING heavy engine said:

What the heck is going on with those rings? Is this a new "chain" formation?

Regarding your OC, the wolf species is supposed to attract rings, similar to how a magnetic shield would. That press shot was just taken at an awkward time when the rings were jumbled together during their "attract" mode or whatever.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

You know if they really wanted a dilapidated Chemical Plant, they probably could have just had entire parts of it split and broken apart, fire spouting out of the towers due to materials being set ablaze by errant sparks (or cooling towers firing off huge clouds of pressurized steam that could also double as freezing agents for the frosting bits), all the while pink and blue megamuck leaking out of various areas mix together to create a volatile compound that can be frozen while also being on fire at the same time. It could still be colorful as heck while also having areas where the color is much darker to act as a contrast to the more colorful areas, or have the colors be more neon or sickly looking to emphasize how fucked up everything is without needing to make it dark and dreary.

Yes I do not know anything about chemistry, so much of what I said could be complete bull, but there's probably something like what I said that they could have done.

[Sonikko]

24 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

I only know part of what happened in the period mid development - pre-public announcement... I don't know how long ago this time frame was and still trying to work how out I can actually talk about this... but... with regards to the beginning, it was probably one of the following.

 

 

After Sonic Lost World came out and was received worldwide, there was probably a period of general experimentation in the development team, some others moved onto other projects (temporary/permanent depending on what they did), during this Time, the higher ups at Sonic Team and Sega probably held a review of the reception, the development and a few other things, likely that there were multiple meetings.

After this... One of the following....

1: A decision was made to make a sequel to Sonic Generations (This is in terms of gameplay and level design, not a literal sequel). Ideas for stages/designs were made... at some point they toyed with the idea of a third playable character... If that were Boom Sonic or not is anyone's guess (GrappleGun being Boom Sonic's enerbeam).

2: There was a period of time after Sonic Lost World where several smaller teams were putting together smaller pitches for a game or direction to take. Whoever won that pitch session is what the main core of what you see now is... the Avatar may or may not have come during this early pitch or after, it might even have been part of another pitch.

 

Now... at some point between this period and some time prior to the public reveal it's very possible that something has happened *hint hint* which could have meant that development might have changed *hint hint* in some way... that could have been either too ambitious an idea, or the idea wasn't ambitious enough... or something else went very wrong and the project was scaled back to a state which would be salvageable.

All of this makes me think of a couple of possbile scenarios:

1. They were working on something new, different, but the reception of Lost World/Boom made them backpedal and fall back on the Generations formula.

2. They were working on Sonic Adventure 3 but the project was too ambitious and Forces is feeding on its scraps. Kind of like a Colours/Generations situation.

3. It was supposed to feature Boom!Sonic and it was initially the main part of the game.

[James Cloud]

1 hour ago, BestGriff said:

Wha-- they worked on this game for four years.  How?

Was this new info? this was been confirmed for a while ago.

[Diogenes]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Huh.

You know, it doesn't really look like Chemical Plant from those screenshots.

It looks more like the Final Fortress to me.

Okay just because this seems to keep coming up.

It's definitely, 100% Chemical Plant.

[Dr. Detective]

This is very strange. There doesn't exist an excuse for this honestly. Even if this game was in development before Mania came out, why the hell would Iizuka suggest the same returning levels that were planned to be in Forces? Even if Mania wasn't a thing, this still wouldn't work since the only main series game mediating the span of time between Forces and Generations is Lost World. Did they think that was enough time to get over the fact that we saw all of these things already? 

Do they think the fanbase has the memory of a starving Goldfish? It's not even like Windy Hill wasn't designed to invoke the same feeling you'd get running through Green Hill either.

Admittedly, I can't get too angry or heated about this regardless. Yes, there's the fact that it was technically confirmed long ago already but there's also the fact that this version of Chemical Plant isn't very good at looking like Chemical Plant. 

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Okay just because this seems to keep coming up.

It's definitely, 100% Chemical Plant.

I didn't say that to mean I didn't think it was Chemical Plant. They called it Chemical Plant. That's what it is.