Sonic Forces - Chemical Plant is back

[BestGriff]

10 minutes ago, James Cloud said:

Was this new info? this was been confirmed for a while ago.

I'm pretty out of the loop, so this is the first I've heard of it. Honestly.

[Detective Kaito]

44 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

My God how did we miss that! The ring is clipping through another ring! 

It would look cool if it were like a chain but that ring is literally clipping through the other... in a press shot!

 

Edit: Wait... This might be explained if those rings are being pulled towards the player? But just checked other video and that's not in effect yet, unless it's a power up?

The Wolf has the ability to attract rings. The rings get pushed away from the player slightly, then they head towards him. It's weird, but it happens for some reason.

[Osmium]

30 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

You know if they really wanted a dilapidated Chemical Plant, they probably could have just had entire parts of it split and broken apart, fire spouting out of the towers due to materials being set ablaze by errant sparks (or cooling towers firing off huge clouds of pressurized steam that could also double as freezing agents for the frosting bits), all the while pink and blue megamuck leaking out of various areas mix together to create a volatile compound that can be frozen while also being on fire at the same time. It could still be colorful as heck while also having areas where the color is much darker to act as a contrast to the more colorful areas, or have the colors be more neon or sickly looking to emphasize how fucked up everything is without needing to make it dark and dreary.

Yes I do not know anything about chemistry, so much of what I said could be complete bull, but there's probably something like what I said that they could have done.

It is possible to have materials that are considered ice while being in incredibly hot settings due to pressures. These are exotic forms of ice.  It happens on extrasolar planets.

Ice can be inderectly responsible for combustion if you add a layer of calcium carbide which produces acytelene gas which is highly combustible. So you could have water ice that appears to be burning.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just now, ShroomZed said:

It is possible to have materials that are considered ice while being in incredibly hot settings due to pressures. These are exotic forms of ice.  It happens on extrasolar planets.

Ice can be inderectly responsible for combustion if you add a layer of calcium carbide which produces acytelene gas which is highly combustible. So you could have water ice that appears to be burning.

Well the rabbit has spoken! It could have worked as a unique gimmick for a dystopian Chemical Plant :D.

[Osmium]

Just now, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Well the rabbit has spoken! It could have worked as a unique gimmick for a dystopian Chemical Plant :D.

It's a hare! >:O 

[Dr. Detective]

I'm starting to think that one space level we saw in the trailer might be The Ark with ripped assets from that fight with Shadow in Generations.

 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

It's a hare! >:O 

Details. The point is that there's a lot of potential gimmicks and ideas they could have gone with to make Forces Plant it's own entity.

[Razule]

44 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

You know if they really wanted a dilapidated Chemical Plant, they probably could have just had entire parts of it split and broken apart, fire spouting out of the towers due to materials being set ablaze by errant sparks (or cooling towers firing off huge clouds of pressurized steam that could also double as freezing agents for the frosting bits), all the while pink and blue megamuck leaking out of various areas mix together to create a volatile compound that can be frozen while also being on fire at the same time. It could still be colorful as heck while also having areas where the color is much darker to act as a contrast to the more colorful areas, or have the colors be more neon or sickly looking to emphasize how fucked up everything is without needing to make it dark and dreary.

Yes I do not know anything about chemistry, so much of what I said could be complete bull, but there's probably something like what I said that they could have done.

Didn't they do "Chemical Plant on fire" already in Generations?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just now, Razule said:

Didn't they do "Chemical Plant on fire" already in Generations?

As a background element, yes. But I meant that it could have been used in a more interactive way along with the frost bit here.

[Mad Convoy]

3 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

It is possible to have materials that are considered ice while being in incredibly hot settings due to pressures. These are exotic forms of ice.  It happens on extrasolar planets.

Ice can be inderectly responsible for combustion if you add a layer of calcium carbide which produces acytelene gas which is highly combustible. So you could have water ice that appears to be burning.

Plot twist: Eggman used Infinite to discover the secret of making Greek fire and uses it in his chemical plant to burn off chemical wastes and resistance water supplies. No, you can't have it. Its Eggman's now.

But yeah, I think the ice in chemical plant is one of those things that was an accidental dose of scientific genius. Like that episode of Johnny Quest where somebody tried to stab a large diamond formation only to get nothing until she tries bashing Johnny's head into it instead, getting perfect, even, cuts of diamonds as a result. Scientifically accurate in the sense that diamonds won't yield to being stabbed, but are in fact very easy to break into equal pieces with blunt force; accidental in the sense that the production staff only meant it as a joke and making all diamonds the same makes them easier to draw and animate.

[Person]

Sorry y'all, I just had to do it, heh heh.

Anyway, wow. I was expecting Chemical Plant from the earlier in-level dialogue, but seeing it now...I don't know how to feel. On the one hand, it looks kind of cool, but on the other it's like geez, do you think that's enough? I know anything that needed to be said has been said already, but I'm just severely disappointed that I can't really like this game right now. Every new reveal has just brought it down lower and lower. I'll still give it a try, but damn.

[Crazy_Diamond]

Wait , hold on, I found something else interesting in that gamereactor interview. During the interview, the interviewer first refers to the level as Chemical Spaceport. It's at 0:34 in this video.

https://www.gamereactor.eu/grtv/339383/Sonic+Forces+-+Shun+Nakamura+Interview/

Did he just unintentionally reveal the level name? It's clear he was referring to Chemical Plant Zone because they talk about it later in the video. The interview seems familiar with Sonic, so I doubt that he just got the name wrong. He must have just slipped up and revealed the level name right there.

[Dee Dude]

Chemical Spaceport?

I don't see anything space related, they specifically said it would be CP but frozen unless they're combining three level tropes  at once!

Still, even if it's only just four pics, I see no stars, meteors,(DONTLETTHEMHITYOUMOVE) or whatever unless the final act involves a spaceship to the Death Egg (?) that Sonic falls to.

EDIT: Ok, spaceports aren't necessarily in space which now I feel stupid but I had to make that joke. :U

[Whatever the WhoCares]

"Chemical Spaceport" would make sense given how Sonic gets into space in the trailer. 

Also, and I've brought this up before, but isn't it also possible that Forces is actually the "Colors" to an upcoming, larger-scale project they haven't announced? Classic Sonic isn't sticking around, as evidenced by the "before I say goodbye to you" line in Fist Bump (though that might be referring to the avatar, but even then, do you really think they'd keep him stranded in the wrong dimension?). So maybe Classic Sonic's inclusion was a misguided attempt to keep things comfortably familiar before the next game doubles down on the darker elements we're seeing introduced here. 

That would certainly fit in with their self-admitted business strategy of catering to the average gamer rather than the core. "Look we've got Green Hill Zone, Classic Sonic, and Chemical Plant! Psych! You're playing as a bear and Modern Sonic most of the time and watching glove-wearing animals amass a Braveheart army! Also, Classic Sonic leaves at the end! Wasn't that pretty fun, though?!"

What sense would it make to test the waters if you're already deep in development on the next game and assuming Forces will be well-received? None. But what else is new for this franchise?

[Multikaris]

So if one counts each character's version of a stage with a different name and style as separate, original stages now outnumber recycled ones 6 to 2. If one doesn't, they remain equal, which is really what Mania should have done. No real worries yet. 

[Dr. Detective]

If we get footage of Final Chemical Fortress Plant that might be the last of the gameplay I look at before the game comes out. 

I want the rest of this to be a surprise. 

"Surprise! ALL the stages are from Generations! Infinite takes off the mask and he's the Time Eater... except colored green or something. The Green Hill Time Eater!"

 

[Dannymax440]

I don't really see the full justification for this game being "Generations 2" at all unless there are actually over 7-9 rehashed stages with little to no changes at all.

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, Dannymax440 said:

I don't really see the full justification for this game being "Generations 2" at all unless there are actually over 7-9 rehashed stages with little to no changes at all.

People were even saying before, this could be all new levels, but the foundation itself is essentially a successor/sequel to Gens. The blatant Modern/Classic gameplay separation returning with barely any changes, already solidified to me that this is more or less Gens 2 from a gameplay perspective, with a darker story and extra gameplay addition that looks unfun. 

[The Deleter]

I don't know why people are thinking this stage is an example of Eggman taking over the world. Eggman owns the chemical plant. Why would he go out of his way to sabotage his own factory by freezing it over?

I really don't think the focus of the stage lineup will be on Eggman's effect on the world specifically at this point, going by everything we know by now of the nature of the stages...

... And the key element of the game in the first place...

Spoiler

 

[CleverSonicUsername]

There's a voice clip from an earlier Green Hill demo where Tails mentions Chemical Plant, IIRC, so I can't say I'm shocked by this. That said, I was kind of hoping it was just a nod and not a proper level because I'm about as burnt out on Chemical Plant as I am Green Hill. There's plenty of levels to choose from if you're insistent on going back to the Sonic 2 well, and plenty that haven't been represented in full 3D. Hell, do Metropolis covered in ice or something, two out of the three last main series games had Chemical Plant for chrissake, now this makes three out of four.

 

[shdowhunt60]

Yeah, this isn't revelatory or anything. But it's still disappointing how Sonic Team is rehashing the same zones again. Chemical Plant is becoming another Green Hill Zone.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

2 hours ago, The Deleter said:

 

I don't know why people are thinking this stage is an example of Eggman taking over the world. Eggman owns the chemical plant. Why would he go out of his way to sabotage his own factory by freezing it over?

 

Because Metallic Madness Bad Future.

There, when Eggman wins, he gets too lax and doesn't keep up maintenance on his stuff and it looks rusty and broken down as a result.

They're probably assuming it was a case like that, which I could see happening.

[The Deleter]

Alright Metallic Madness is pretty stupid on Eggman's part in hindsight, but at least it has the excuse of being in a time travel game where hundreds of years of decay would actually make sense, rather than just simply flipping the decay switch as soon as he won, much less changing the climate altogether, ala throwing sand into Green Hill Zone or a casino in a secluded forest.

It doesn't show that he won. It shows that he's a stupid industrialist that wasted a resource involuntarily. You don't need to have him take over the world to show that in the first place, and it certainly doesn't make it look like he's on top of things in his global takeover if these are the only results.

[Salamander]

While I have acknowledged the possibility that we might get icier screenshots of Chemical Plant in future, especially once we're dealing with Modern and Classic versions of the stage, the more I think about it the more I wonder why they went with these images if they could still have done better.  It almost looks like the ice theming came along somewhere late in the day, given that it exists only in some rather grainy textures applied to a few background objects (which I had initially read as just dirt).  Thinking about it, it's also true that the sand in Green Hill doesn't touch the gameplay at all (the machinery inside the fortress is more important in that respect); and while it didn't stand out before and I'll admit that I don't see how they could change it, obviously the destruction in Park Avenue / Sunset Heights is purely a visual effect; it doesn't even extend to the level names.  In Casino Forest, meanwhile, it's the forest angle which doesn't matter at all.  I almost wonder if they had the level design already somehow locked-in, and so all they could do was change how things looked.  But then there's the Shadow gameplay we've seen, which is entirely made up of boxes and floating enemies, level background irrelevant...  Maybe they really do keep on losing large numbers of staff to another project that's already in development?

It's just so hard to speculate about this game as it's clear that a great deal of effort has gone into making something so boring.  They haven't reused any actual assets, but they've reused a huge number of ideas, which seem like they would have been the easier part to generate.  And yet there's also a plot which looks like the most ambitious thing they've written in years (which admittedly isn't saying much), but it appears to be fundamentally based around excuses used to contextualise all the reiteration.  I just can't explain how this game came to be.  It's honestly quite fascinating.  I have absolutely zero interest in the gameplay but at this point I'm actually really keen for the game to come out, just so I can put the corpse on the slab and start dissecting it.

[Ratcicle King]

36 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

It doesn't show that he won. It shows that he's a stupid industrialist that wasted a resource involuntarily. You don't need to have him take over the world to show that in the first place, and it certainly doesn't make it look like he's on top of things in his global takeover if these are the only results.

I mean, I kinda thought that's what was being implied in CD too. Eggman's machinery ruined so much of the environment that it became infertile even to the very machinery.

plus we don't know how Infinite is affecting the zones, for all we know, Eggman conquered the world in the past. :U