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sonic 3D blast director's cut (beta version out now!)


blueblur98

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1 minute ago, Tornado said:

I don't think the Genesis version has the color pallette to have made this anything but a chore, though. Those fucking green ones in Rusty Ruin, for example, might as well turn invisible if you even lost one; to say nothing of chasing down small sprites in an isometric platformer. I'd say it is in improvement hinging on how rigidly they go back to Sonic.

My point was more so related to the fact that the dev has already removed (or changed) the mechanic where Flickies scatter whenever you get hurt, so if he's going to make the process of recollecting Flickies significantly easier than before as well, why maintain the chance of having them scatter in the first place?

It just comes off as a bit redundant in my eyes.

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2 hours ago, superman43 said:

Definitely not. Look at how faithfully they made the remakes and even asked Yuji Naka himself if HE approves Hidden Palace Zone for Sonic 2 remaster. They would work with him as they did with SEGA. No more, no less. And as you said, they are fans. Why would they even want to negate something that was done by the original cast as there is the original designer. That just doesn´t make sense. 

As it stands, there isn't anything Taxman or Stealth could contribute that the dev can't already do himself.

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8 hours ago, Aquaslash said:

As it stands, there isn't anything Taxman or Stealth could contribute that the dev can't already do himself.

And that is entirely your opinion. ;) 

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5 hours ago, superman43 said:

And that is entirely your opinion. ;) 

I more or less agree with Aquaslash. I mean, the guy seems to know what to do, and there's no point in changing the game a lot, just fix a few details. If we were talking about a Sonic 3D Remastered, then Taxman and Stealth working on it would make more sense. 

EDIT: I don't really know, but this might be the first time in history that a developer gets back to a program he made 20 years before, only to fix it. It's really amazing.

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The only thing I'd want from this version is a Genesis-ified version of the Saturn's soundtrack, since I'm assuming this will be released as a patch for the Genesis ROM. Otherwise I'm really pleased with all the new additions and changes and I can't wait to play this.

re: Taxman/Stealth... I love them and their games but they're not the only people who can properly remaster an old Sonic game.

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23 hours ago, superman43 said:

Definitely not. Look at how faithfully they made the remakes

Of completely unrelated games that the Sonic fan community had exponentially more knowledge and respect of then they will ever have of Sonic 3D Blast; which even then is still likely less than Jon Burton has when it comes to tweaking a game he created himself using the actual source code and actual development tools that he still has.

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They would work with him as they did with SEGA. No more, no less.

And what would they contribute that the original developer working with the original source code and the original development tools that he made himself not already be able to do?

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And as you said, they are fans.

Generally of Sonic 1, Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 and to a lesser extent Sonic CD.

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Why would they even want to negate something that was done by the original cast as there is the original designer. That just doesn´t make sense. 

Because of difference of opinion of what constitutes a proper re-imagining of the game in question. It's his director's cut, being reshaped in a way that he thinks is better. Taxman or Stealth may not agree with his ideas therein or (based on how much of a whipping boy 3D Blast usually is) may not think it is something worth doing at all, and (again) most likely can't do anything on a technical level that he couldn't already do.

 

For someone who accuses people of not reading...

 

13 hours ago, superman43 said:

And that is entirely your opinion. ;) 

Yes, that's generally how forums work.

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3 minutes ago, Tornado said:

And what would they contribute that the original developer working with the original source code and the original development tools that he made himself not already be able to do?

Original developer would do minor tweaks but what I was thinking of are small almost forgettable ideas but in the same way nice touches as did in remakes. Something that Jon might not have thought about.

7 minutes ago, Tornado said:

Because of difference of opinion of what constitutes a proper reimagining of the game in question.

 

 That still doesn´t answer to why Taxman and Stealth were faithful. Yes, it was mainly SEGA´s part in keeping it faithful, but that´s how collaboration works. Jon could get some good ideas, but when he thinks it´s too much, he won´t add it in. Simple.

11 minutes ago, Tornado said:

Generally of Sonic 1, Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 and to a lesser extent Sonic CD.

The discussion here is... how much exactly is 3D different compared to S1, S2, S3 or CD. It´s not same, of course, but it certainly shares roots within how the game were programmed and it´s not only a bit, I presume.

About the Flickies system... It is a little illogical to have them as a shield and losing them only with 0 rings. What I think is actually better that if you get hit, you lose rings and 1 flicky. That is what I would call balanced. Or losing only the flicky with no losing of rings.

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1 hour ago, superman43 said:

Original developer would do minor tweaks but what I was thinking of are small almost forgettable ideas but in the same way nice touches as did in remakes. Something that Jon might not have thought about.

Amazing what porting game assets to an entirely new engine that runs on exponentially more powerful hardware allows. If only Naka hadn't been so foolish to program Sonic 1 to run on a Sega Genesis when he should have used the iPhone 5 as the target development platform.

 

 

I imagine if Burton wanted to make the absolute most amazing definitive version of Sonic 3D Blast that he could have possibly done to the extent of a Taxman level remake, he wouldn't be working from the Genesis version in the first place.

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That still doesn´t answer to why Taxman and Stealth were faithful.

Because they were hired to port the games to modern devices using Taxman's new game engine instead of just running on an emulator. That's something Burton might have been able to do to as well anyway, since (as above) a more modular and much more advanced version of Sonic 3D than the Genesis one already exists and he might have the code for that as well.

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Yes, it was mainly SEGA´s part in keeping it faithful, but that´s how collaboration works. Jon could get some good ideas, but when he thinks it´s too much, he won´t add it in. Simple.

So now that we've gotten past the insinuation that the Sonic fan community are the only ones who can do impressive things on the Sega Genesis or enhance Sonic games released on the system, what ideas are Taxman and Stealth going to contribute to a game that they probably (spitballing here, but I don't think unreasonably so) don't hold with particular reverence compared to the ones that they have already worked on and which don't clash with the ideas from someone who is pretty much literally making a Director's Cut? You're taking such issue with me saying that in this case Burton is likely in a singularly unique position that leaves him the best person for this particular task, so offer one up for me.

1 hour ago, superman43 said:

The discussion here is... how much exactly is 3D different compared to S1, S2, S3 or CD. It´s not same, of course, but it certainly shares roots within how the game were programmed and it´s not only a bit, I presume.

Even Sonic CD is a fair bit dissimilar from the other three Genesis games, so how much do you think a 3rd party 3D isometric platformer share with a first party 2D sidescroller? They both use SMPS as the sound driver and have Sonic on the title. After that I'm already reaching, even just on what Burton has shown in his videos talking about the game's development.

 

1 hour ago, superman43 said:

About the Flickies system... It is a little illogical to have them as a shield and losing them only with 0 rings. What I think is actually better that if you get hit, you lose rings and 1 flicky. That is what I would call balanced. Or losing only the flicky with no losing of rings.

Interesting. And if Taxman or Stealth  (or anyone else) thought the same, they might clash over these changes to the game; except as part of the development process instead of just as the potential end user...

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, molul said:

EDIT: I don't really know, but this might be the first time in history that a developer gets back to a program he made 20 years before, only to fix it. It's really amazing.

Carmack has fiddled with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D a few times since they released, most recently with the iOS ports that he did himself when he felt the developer commissioned for it weren't doing it very well. They both had a couple tweaks and fixes above and beyond what it took to get them running on the platform.

Duke Nukem 3D's hardware accelerated renderer was written by Ken Silverman himself when it as claimed that it couldn't be done following the release of the game's source code. Granted that was only a decade later, but it is the basis that most of the subsequent ports (including the 360 one and Megaton, I believe) have used and Silverman has tinkered with BUILD a bit since then

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22 hours ago, Tornado said:

Amazing what porting game assets to an entirely new engine that runs on exponentially more powerful hardware allows. If only Naka hadn't been so foolish to program Sonic 1 to run on a Sega Genesis when he should have used the iPhone 5 as the target development platform.

 

 

I imagine if Burton wanted to make the absolute most amazing definitive version of Sonic 3D Blast that he could have possibly done to the extent of a Taxman level remake, he wouldn't be working from the Genesis version in the first place.

Because they were hired to port the games to modern devices using Taxman's new game engine instead of just running on an emulator. That's something Burton might have been able to do to as well anyway, since (as above) a more modular and much more advanced version of Sonic 3D than the Genesis one already exists and he might have the code for that as well.

So now that we've gotten past the insinuation that the Sonic fan community are the only ones who can do impressive things on the Sega Genesis or enhance Sonic games released on the system, what ideas are Taxman and Stealth going to contribute to a game that they probably (spitballing here, but I don't think unreasonably so) don't hold with particular reverence compared to the ones that they have already worked on and which don't clash with the ideas from someone who is pretty much literally making a Director's Cut? You're taking such issue with me saying that in this case Burton is likely in a singularly unique position that leaves him the best person for this particular task, so offer one up for me.

Even Sonic CD is a fair bit dissimilar from the other three Genesis games, so how much do you think a 3rd party 3D isometric platformer share with a first party 2D sidescroller? They both use SMPS as the sound driver and have Sonic on the title. After that I'm already reaching, even just on what Burton has shown in his videos talking about the game's development.

 

Interesting. And if Taxman or Stealth  (or anyone else) thought the same, they might clash over these changes to the game; except as part of the development process instead of just as the potential end user...

 

 

 

 

Carmack has fiddled with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D a few times since they released, most recently with the iOS ports that he did himself when he felt the developer commissioned for it weren't doing it very well. They both had a couple tweaks and fixes above and beyond what it took to get them running on the platform.

Duke Nukem 3D's hardware accelerated renderer was written by Ken Silverman himself when it as claimed that it couldn't be done following the release of the game's source code. Granted that was only a decade later, but it is the basis that most of the subsequent ports (including the 360 one and Megaton, I believe) have used and Silverman has tinkered with BUILD a bit since then

Exact definition of "developer is saint" and "nobody else has the right to say anything". That´s what you have summarised.

Similar things as those in remakes were already possible to do on Genesis as well. Ehm... ok.

Last thing I am going to say... who wants to make barriers will always find a way, who wants to be open to ideas will always find some block from others.

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19 hours ago, superman43 said:

Exact definition of "developer is saint" and "nobody else has the right to say anything". That´s what you have summarised.

Similar things as those in remakes were already possible to do on Genesis as well. Ehm... ok.

Last thing I am going to say... who wants to make barriers will always find a way, who wants to be open to ideas will always find some block from others.

Dude, he actually made some good points there.

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The part that explains the water and Sonic palette is amazing. I also like the checker color change to yellow and green.

I don't like the transformation sprite, but I guess there's not much else that he can use. Maybe the jumping sprite.

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Sonic 3D is my favourite classic Sonic game, so I can't wait for this to be released. Like with Mania, I'm giving this a box and a working cartridge. Cover is 90% complete and is just waiting for the final release so that I can have a variety of screenshots. Models are of a low quality to relate to the era the game was originally made.

2n9b1g4.jpg

I'll be making a Genesis 3D Blast version too.

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7 hours ago, Stasis said:

Sonic 3D is my favourite classic Sonic game, so I can't wait for this to be released. Like with Mania, I'm giving this a box and a working cartridge. Cover is 90% complete and is just waiting for the final release so that I can have a variety of screenshots. Models are of a low quality to relate to the era the game was originally made.

2n9b1g4.jpg

I'll be making a Genesis 3D Blast version too.

Much more beautiful than the original one. Good work! :)

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On 10/19/2017 at 4:56 PM, superman43 said:

Exact definition of "developer is saint" and "nobody else has the right to say anything". That´s what you have summarised.

...

 

He was the fucking director and it's his remaster of the game. If someone in the Sonic community wants to do something with Sonic 3D Blast, they are just as perfectly free to do so now as they have been for the past 15 years or so that Sonic game hacks have been a big thing. But get the fuck out of here with this shit that something like this needs one of the known members of the fan community for it to be as good as it can be; and definitely get the fuck out of here with the repeated implications that the Sonic fan community are the only ones who know how the Genesis hardware works, even over someone who was an original programmer from one of the most respected design houses making enhancements to a game he programmed on the first place.

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Similar things as those in remakes were already possible to do on Genesis as well. Ehm... ok.

Sonic 3 Complete and Sonic Megamix are mighty impressive releases, both having given me much enjoyment on my actual X'Eye. So great are the enhancements to Complete that I cannot stand to play the original anymore. We're talking about Sonic 3D Blast. So...

 

Once again, how much do you think a 3rd party 3D isometric platformer share with a first party 2D sidescroller? You threw it out there with such conviction, and I legitimately don't know beyond the sound engine, so enlighten me.

On 10/19/2017 at 4:56 PM, superman43 said:

Last thing I am going to say... who wants to make barriers will always find a way, who wants to be open to ideas will always find some block from others.

Also still waiting for an example. So far the fan community's entire archived weight behind Sonic 3D Blast seems to have been "remove Flickies" and "add Super Sonic."

 

 

On 10/20/2017 at 7:46 PM, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

New update, timer and Super Sonic added: 

 

I do definitely get the impression that he's trying to make the Flickies as... Non-draining as possible without just giving up and removing them. I'm not sure if it will make the game too easy, but definitely much easier. I do agree that changing their AI routine might have been a bit much with the tracking system also added.

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New update:

"In this episode I show the new option screen, the in-game editor, and the prototype Crab has it's moment in the spotlight..."

You now transform into Super Sonic by pressing jump and then the spindash button in the air and can transform back to normal Sonic by doing the same. Why couldn't you transform back to normal Sonic by doing something like this in Mania XD

I like the other changes. The tighter movement on the platforms in Gene Gadget, changing the floor color in Green Groove back to brown and removing the death animation from the Super Sonic transformation. The level editor option looks fun.

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Personally I think de-transformation makes Super Sonic way too much of a gamebreaker; I like the fact that in order to get out of it in the official games, you had to either run out of rings or enter a bonus stage, which slightly offsets the overwhelming power and speed you get by deciding to use him in the first place.

Even in Sonic 3 Complete, I choose to have de-transformation disabled, especially since I don't use super forms much in the first place and don't want to view it as a tool to bypass minuscule areas I don't like as much. If you really want to cancel the transformation, then don't use him in the first place - be more wise about when you use it.

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

Personally I think de-transformation makes Super Sonic way too much of a gamebreaker; I like the fact that in order to get out of it in the official games, you had to either run out of rings or enter a bonus stage, which slightly offsets the overwhelming power and speed you get by deciding to use him in the first place.

you should shut your whore mouth.

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I seen some of the videos for Sonic 3D Blast thing remake. I am hoping maybe they make Tails and Knuckles playable. I will admit that I never had problems getting the flickies in this game. This was my first game I ever got that was not rented from Blockbuster or borrowed from friends. I like the changes they are doing though.

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

New update: 

 

Well now, that's quite an update.

So if you can only collect one emerald per zone (which is even more drastic than the Saturn version one emerald per act design) this means there will be a special stage entrance in Gene Gadget & Puppet Panic!!! I wonder where Knuckles & Tails will be hiding?!

As for time trials and 100% completion, this screams of unnecessary padding. 3d blast is boring enough already and this won't help.

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Just now, TheOcelot said:

As for time trials and 100% completion, this screams of unnecessary padding. 3d blast is boring enough already and this won't help.

I think it's an awesome addition to the game. Is it really padding? The game was already completed without these features, and weren't needed to make the game longer back in the day. I see them as just extras for fans to get some extra replayability out of an old game while it's having its last hurrah.

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"A trailer for Sonic 3D Blast Director's Cut, as the BETA version is going to be released very soon".

 

 

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