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Sonic Forces: Infinite Unmasked (SPOILERS/Speculation)


The Deleter

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7 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Sure, but the trailer's job is to market the movie.

If people think the trailer looks bad, they aren't going to be as interested in paying to see it. I think it's absolutely fair to judge an upcoming movie or game by its trailers, because that's what trailers are for. To entice people to see the thing. And if they can't do that, then it's either a failure of marketing, the actual thing being marketed, or both.

I've looked at many trailers and said "this looks like shit." I've never looked at a trailer and said "this movie IS shit."

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3 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I've looked at many trailers and said "this looks like shit." I've never looked at a trailer and said "this movie IS shit."

Most everyone here is talking from the perspective of "This looks good/this looks bad." It's on you for taking them the wrong way if you think otherwise.

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1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

That's why Mario can take control of a T. Rex. Cmon, dude, no game series is immune to succumbing to the "wouldn't it be cool if" line of thinking. 

I'm not saying that no character should ever do something that has, at some point, been considered cool. But even this is not the straight generic cool of "has a sword". T-rexes themselves are cool, but there's not really a traditionally cool way to turn into one, and throwing your hat at it so you possess it and it grows a mustache is not even trying to be traditionally cool. Plus, it's not just some cool idea inserted at random, it's just an extension of the capture mechanic. Some of the things you can possess have an inherent coolness to them (like the T-rex), some of them are very mundane and dull (like a manhole cover).

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I also see things thrown around like "Infinite is a shitty character" and "the sword doesn't fit and is just there to look cool/edgy/whatever, and all I can think is, how do you know?

Because I know Sonic Team. And I don't trust them. At all.

Really though this is just a slightly repackaged "it's not out yet you can't judge it!" which is just...tiresome. Yes, the game's not out yet, I haven't played it, I can't say with absolute confidence what it's like. But I know Sonic Team, I know the history of this series, and I know the trailers and previews and such that they have released, and I'm not going to sit around twiddling my thumbs trying not to judge what I've seen. Especially not when people can go "OMG I love swords Infinite is so cool!" and no one shows up to say "well actually the game isn't out yet so you don't know if Infinite is going to be cool".

All I am doing, all I can do, is look at what we've been given and try to make the most informed opinions and predictions I can with that information. When new information comes out, I revise my position appropriately, but until then, I go with the hypothesis that I feel best fits the evidence.

 

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1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

I thought we learned that Sonic characters using swords was a bad idea back in 2009.

Bad idea? It was implemented pretty well in my opinion.

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We actually learned that Sonic characters with swords was a bad idea with 2005's Shadow the Hedgehog, anyway.

Seriously melee weapons sucked ass in that game.

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Idk

NMIIEY0.gif

I always thought that Sonic using a sword to extend his spinattack to be a really cool idea

The base level, stop-and-go slashing gameplay of Black Knight that most people have to deal with was pants though, yeah

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10 minutes ago, -Justin- said:

Bad idea? It was implemented pretty well in my opinion.

That's fair. You're allowed to like it. But me calling it a "bad idea" is still vindicated by two things:

It sold poorly.

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And it reviewed poorly.

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It's great that you were able to enjoy it. I'm sure Sega appreciates your purchase very much. But the general gaming public didn't share your enthusiasm for this game, and it flopped as a result, unceremoniously killing the entire storybook series after only two entries.

In the gaming industry, that is what people call "a bad idea."

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1 minute ago, Super Mechanio said:

That's fair. You're allowed to like it. But me calling it a "bad idea" is still vindicated by two things:

It sold poorly.

DNVbFvk.png

 

And it reviewed poorly.

Vf2MyFv.png

 

It's great that you were able to enjoy it. I'm sure Sega appreciates your purchase very much. But the general gaming public didn't share your enthusiasm for this game, and it flopped as a result, unceremoniously killing the entire storybook series after only two entries.

In the gaming industry, that is what people call "a bad idea."

Hmm, that’s fair too!

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36 minutes ago, Josh said:

Most everyone here is talking from the perspective of "This looks good/this looks bad." It's on you for taking them the wrong way if you think otherwise.

That's not how I'm going to look at it when even just one of their many assumptions turns out to be wrong. Which some already have as we've gotten new info, so, yeah. 

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I'll be pretty surprised if I end up finding Infinite the least bit likable in the final product, in the precisely same way I would be surprised if a good Adam Sandler movie comes out

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4 minutes ago, Sean said:

I'll be pretty surprised if I end up finding Infinite the least bit likable in the final product, in the precisely same way I would be surprised if a good Adam Sandler movie comes out

I'll never call an Adam Sandler character shit until I see the movie. 

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I kinda feel like a lot of the problems with Infinite having a sword would be substantially lessened if he had been something like a samurai in his backstory, or had something swordsman based on his person. We don't exactly give crap to Espio for using shuriken and throwing knives or Nack/Fang for having a sniper rifle because those two are specifically noted to be a ninja and bounty hunter respectively, so them using weapons makes sense. Conversely, it's also why Shadow having guns is often seen as bizarre due to him using ranged energy attacks and established skills that makes adding a weapon seem pointless, even if you could make a case for him needing another means to fight in the event he can't use aforementioned skills.

Now this wouldn't fix anything else about Infinite, but eh.

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There's a difference when Mario does something cool, and when Sonic does something "cool".

When Mario does dumb shit, it's mostly as an extension of it's already absurd world and atmosphere; we don't question it because the game never really draws attention to it beyond "hey, this is here" and that's about it.

With Sonic? Practically every time it tries to be "cool" feels less like a natural part of the world, but the creators just throwing in as many elements they think are cool and then having a giant neon sign that says "HEY, THIS SHIT IS COOL RIGHT? LOOK HOW FUCKING COOL IT IS". 

 

Mario just feels way more genuine in what it does, which is why people can accept it wholeheartedly...and ya know, because the games are actually good. Sonic just feels way more superficial, like they're "cool" on a surface level and if you don't really look into it any deeper than that, but once you get past the surface, it just feels hollow, empty, and lacking in any kind of substance. That's my take on it anyway.

 

So yea, Infinite with a Sword is "cool" because "swords are cool", but there's no actual thematic reason for him to be using it (that we know if anyway), so it's just...another generic "cool" thing for him to do.  

4 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

And it'd be even better if you'd do it too. 

Or...maybe people can feel how they want about a game and that you shouldn't be trying to indoctrinate them into your line of thinking.

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30 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Idk

NMIIEY0.gif

I always thought that Sonic using a sword to extend his spinattack to be a really cool idea

The base level, stop-and-go slashing gameplay of Black Knight that most people have to deal with was pants though, yeah

It may have been a cool idea in concept, but unfortunately, the execution soured it.

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Or...maybe people can feel how they want about a game and that you shouldn't be trying to indoctrinate them into your line of thinking.

Suggesting =/= indoctrinating. 

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I have way too much shit in my life to think about like my new job and apartment, my student loans, and managing my income to worry about policing the way I word my opinions on an internet forum where I'm not even insulting anyone else or for them having different opinions on a video game than I do

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9 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

And it'd be even better if you'd do it too. 

I literally don't understand what you're trying to get at here.

Anyway uh, I'm betting the sword's a Wispon somehow and it ties into his origins. And since we haven't seen him with it in the game he probably left it behind once he got his powers...though, not seeing it in the game could also mean this is concept art or something? Where even did that image come from??

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Just now, Celestia said:

I literally don't understand what you're saying here.

Anyway uh...okay I'm betting the sword's a Wispon somehow and it ties into his origins. And since we haven't seen him with it in the game he probably left it behind once he got his powers...though, not seeing it in the game could also mean this is concept art or something? Where even did that image come from??

I kind of wonder if he's somehow related to the SA1 Echidna Tribe. Granted he doesn't look anything like an Echidna but his sword does seem to make him an ancient being. 

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1 minute ago, Celestia said:

I literally don't understand what you're saying here.

Anyway uh...okay I'm betting the sword's a Wispon somehow and it ties into his origins. And since we haven't seen him with it in the game he probably left it behind once he got his powers...though, not seeing it in the game could also mean this is concept art or something? Where even did that image come from??

It was hidden on the Forces comic pdf files.

Looks like a sketch of the next issue cover.

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3 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I kind of wonder if he's somehow related to the SA1 Echidna Tribe. Granted he doesn't look anything like an Echidna but his sword does seem to make him an ancient being. 

There's nothing about the sword that implies he's from the past, and even if he was there's no reason to think he's connected to the echindas, out of all possible cultures and all possible time periods.

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Even if he was from that time period and that area (which, again, there's absolutely zero evidence for in the first place) I don't see how that would help him recruit Chaos; if they had any contact at all back then it would be in the form of Chaos going "hey stay the fuck away from me and my family", because that's Chaos' entire deal.

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