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Sonic Forces - Space Port Gameplay


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4 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

You watch a video... then have to push a button to keep watching a video.

...and? Why is that inherently, objectively bad?

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1 minute ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

...and? Why is that inherently, objectively bad?

You don't see why some people don't like automation and not actually interacting with the game they're playing?

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Just now, KHCast said:

You don't see why some people don't like automation and not actually interacting with the game they're playing?

...no, I didn't say that I couldn't see why some people don't like it.

I just wondered why it's considered this inherently bad or wrong thing, because I don't see it that way. On it's own... it's neither good nor bad, it just *is*. What each person takes away from it is entirely subjective.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

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51 minutes ago, Nix said:

I'm not sure where this "Colors was never good" revisionist history came from, but it's silly.

Its a very common thing you see in the fandom nowadays, some Sonic fans want brownie points for dislking the "the good Sonic game". Im not saying its perfect or even a great game, its just something ive been noticing a lot lately.

And with Forces looking like hot garbagio, people can just shift the blame on Colors for its bad level design when the problems run much MUCH deeper then that. It's a lazy scape goat 

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(Apologies for the page stretch,

I wanted to illustrate my point better without it getting buried)

 

Well on the bright side it's not "Chemical Plant"

The downside?

It's not "Chemical plant"

Ohohoohohoh my god that was the trashiest thing i've seen out of this game thus far... Holy shit.

You know the beginning portion of Modern Chemical Plant? Yeah you know this 
  

Spoiler

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That was a thing you could interact with you were rewarded with cutting down time on the level. Or how bout the end portion?

  

Spoiler

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Both of these highlights two key things that Space port fails on both accounts.

Gameplay and Spectacle.

it's no secret that Forces so far has traded off any semblance of intertweening the two together to create cohesion and balance while Generations is not completely innocent with this, at no point does the game outright takes all control away and have you watch Sonic do something cool for about 20 seconds mid level. At the bare minimum you could still boost 

But what I find absolutely baffling here,

  

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You get nothing, absol-fuck-utely NOTHING!  No, button prompts (assuming they haven't added yet)

Or anything resembling control!

Jack diddly sqaut! it's all just spectacle you just watch!

Hell! You can even tell were the button prompts are going to be it's not even subtle!

But you know what the best part about this is, the best godamn thing is?

Both this

  

Spoiler

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And this

  

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Had them! the former (Though has yet to be seen) being more punishing then the latter being superfluous in the grand scheme. Were the designers asleep? Did the forget about them? Did they just not care at all? Or did the had the Level designers from Secret Rings handle this?  (This is all asuming that QTE will shoehorned in at some point)

Like, WOW! I don't know how Forces manages to devolve from the last major boost title. But Forces found it, it has found a godamn way to. "Don't lose your way?" Forces fucking LOST it's way godamn.

TL;DR

 

Spoiler

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This is going to be my first HD boost experiance...

I Deserve better

Edited by Shiguy
Fixing more shit, editing spoiler tags, Dolphin still sucks.
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8 minutes ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

...and? Why is that inherently, objectively bad?

You're no longer playing a game. 

 

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Just now, Mayor D said:

You're no longer playing a game. 

 

And if the *whole* game was like that, I could definitely understand that... but Sonic Forces isn't going to be entirely comprised of QTE's with no real player input.

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Just now, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

And if the *whole* game was like that, I could definitely understand that... but Sonic Forces isn't going to be entirely comprised of QTE's with no real player input.

It breaks the pace in a franchise about high speed, platforming and going fast 

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2 hours ago, Mayor D said:

I'll oh that argument.

Yeah people were saying that about my preview.

Imagine their surprise when they find out Green Hill isn't the first stage.

As much as I don't want too, I'd die laughing at that. GHZ ends up being the 3rd or 4th stage and it looks like crap. The community RAGE would be tremendous. "FIRE IZUKA!!!".  Oh I can't wait for these reactions. Where is my popcorn and Michael Jackson gif.

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Just now, KHCast said:

It breaks the pace in a franchise about high speed, platforming and going fast 

I guess I just don't mind that it's a change from all of that. I grew up on the old Genesis Sonic games and loved them to death in my childhood, but it doesn't really bother me that they've changed things up as the series has gone on.

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Just now, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

And if the *whole* game was like that, I could definitely understand that... but Sonic Forces isn't going to be entirely comprised of QTE's with no real player input.

Lets se...

The first Tag Team stage can be beaten in 60 seconds.

After 20 seconds there is a QTE segment with a fixed time requirement, after this is an automated segment.

This entire segment lasts around 30 seconds.

50% of that stage is a QTE.

 

This stage looks like it can be beaten in around the same time when you take the most efficient path and factor in the average length of stages shown so far.

The QTE section in total lasts for around 22 seconds.

So for 36% of the stage you are not doing anything... and that doesn't include all the automated segments when you use the grapple hook or the boost pads or grind rail.

So 36%+ of this stage is a QTE/automated.

 

What percentage to you is the moment when it's not ok?

 

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3 minutes ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

And if the *whole* game was like that, I could definitely understand that... but Sonic Forces isn't going to be entirely comprised of QTE's with no real player input.

No, it's not going to be 100% QTEs, but the series is already heavily weighed down by automation and restricted gameplay in other ways. It's like, with every game they've stripped out more and more of the actual game part, leaving us with a series that's less and less about the fun of playing, and more and more about the "fun" of watching the game play itself.

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Can't wait for this game to be released already. I should only judge the game by playing it.

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1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

Lets se...

The first Tag Team stage can be beaten in 60 seconds.

After 20 seconds there is a QTE segment with a fixed time requirement, after this is an automated segment.

This entire segment lasts around 30 seconds.

50% of that stage is a QTE.

 

This stage looks like it can be beaten in around the same time when you take the most efficient path and factor in the average length of stages shown so far.

The QTE section in total lasts for around 22 seconds.

So for 36% of the stage you are not doing anything... and that doesn't include all the automated segments when you use the grapple hook or the boost pads or grind rail.

So 36%+ of this stage is a QTE/automated.

 

What percentage to you is the moment when it's not ok?

 

-shrugs- I don't know, honestly. Given that we haven't seen a whole lot of Sonic Forces (which is one of the complaints that I have about the marketing for this game), I don't really KNOW how much of the entire game is going to be automated. For all I know, things could get a lot more involved and complicated in later stages. I don't know, and really, no one else does besides the people who made the game. A lot of the talk going on about the game is based on very limited amounts of revealed data, and pure speculation.

I'm going into Sonic Forces expecting it to be a pretty easy-to-play and easy-to-beat game from the start, so everything I've seen so far seems pretty par for the course. It just doesn't bother me as much as it bothers other people.

 

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2 minutes ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

For all I know, things could get a lot more involved and complicated in later stages.

It never fucking does, man...people say this for every single game, but while later stages might get a little more complicated, the main design philosophies never change, and we see the same problems throughout the whole game.

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I can imagine this stage being in the middle of the gameplay. Similar to how Stardust Speedway´s music was revealed for Mania (I was thinking that perhaps it would be 3rd zone) but it was a mid-game climax. And I think that there would be 2 fights with Infinite before this stage and one after.

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So, looking over the footage again, I couldn't help making a few observations:

- The first few seconds in, they're just "Homing Attacking" the first enemies they see, making it look slow and awkward.

- At just before the 20 second mark, they use the grappling hook to basically skip the level. Not that there's much level design down there anyways.

- It hit me while watching the footage: the Drill Wispon is basically a low budget Spin Dash and Boost. You can either charge it to rush forward (while having almost no forward momentum after it stops) or just rush forward continuously.

- I'll be honest: I didn't even know that qte sequence was one; I thought it was just a cutscene transition. The fact there's no hud in the demonstration didn't help things.

- lol That red ring placement.

- The rest of the level is honestly pretty forgettable. Long lines in both level design and enemy placement, occasional loops.

 

Honestly, when I think about it, this almost seems like Sonic Boom situation of seeming like another game entirely that got a Sonic paint job slapped on last minute.

 

Overall, not impressed. Anyone who does like what they see hopefully gets some fun out of it when it releases.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

-shrugs- I don't know, honestly. Given that we haven't seen a whole lot of Sonic Forces (which is one of the complaints that I have about the marketing for this game), I don't really KNOW how much of the entire game is going to be automated. For all I know, things could get a lot more involved and complicated in later stages. I don't know, and really, no one else does besides the people who made the game. A lot of the talk going on about the game is based on very limited amounts of revealed data, and pure speculation.

I'm going into Sonic Forces expecting it to be a pretty easy-to-play and easy-to-beat game from the start, so everything I've seen so far seems pretty par for the course. It just doesn't bother me as much as it bothers other people.

 

The stuff that's wrong with Forces isn't something that depends on a level per level basis.

We predicted this months ago, when we saw the first gameplay reveal, and hey, we hit the mark on basically everything.

We've also seen ~7 stages now and two boss battles. We'd be at Sky Sanctuary/Speed Highway in Generations by now. Look at how those stages compare to what we've seen of Forces.

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5 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

This is a later stage!

It's actually probably early in the game. From the dialogue, it seems to be that they're looking for Sonic after he "disappeared".

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1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

This is a later stage!

...how do you know? Seriously, how does anyone know the order of these levels? Is there some sorta official listing out there that I don't know about? Is it all in the spoken dialogue context clues?

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Even then, let's assume the first 3-4 zones in the game are bland and uninteresting and the rest are ok. If you have to get to the last 2 zones in a game to get something even remotely interesting out of it, it means it's a bad game.

Sonic 3 doesn't get good at Launch Base. It starts good.

Sonic Mania doesn't get good at Metallic Madness. It's good form the beginning.

Super Mario 3 is the same. So is Super Mario World. So is Donkey Kong Country.

Why does Forces get a free pass for looking uninteresting?

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3 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

The stuff that's wrong with Forces isn't something that depends on a level per level basis.

We predicted this months ago, when we saw the first gameplay reveal, and hey, we hit the mark on basically everything.

We've also seen ~7 stages now and two boss battles. We'd be at Sky Sanctuary/Speed Highway in Generations by now. Look at how those stages compare to what we've seen of Forces.

 

Just now, Sonikko said:

Even then, let's assume the first 3-4 zones in the game are bland and uninteresting and the rest are ok. If you have to get to the last 2 zones in a game to get something even remotely interesting out of it, it means it's a bad game.

Sonic 3 doesn't get good at Launch Base. It starts good.

Sonic Mania doesn't get good at Metallic Madness. It's good form the beginning.

Super Mario 3 is the same. So is Super Mario World. So is Donkey Kong Country.

Why does Forces get a free pass for looking uninteresting?

I.. don't agree that THAT makes a game bad, but hey, that's your opinion. I also don't think that everything that's been shown has been bland and uninteresting at all.

And I don't really think Forces is getting a free pass on anything  - people are ripping it to shreds, which they have every right to do as do the people who defend and praise the game while criticising the critisisms levied at it. I think that it's more that it doesn't look uninteresting to everyone, y'know? The general consensus around the game isn't really one way or the other, at least from what I've been able to see - it looks pretty mixed, maybe with a slight bit more on the positive side.

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