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nilesdobbs

What is the absolute most annoying part about the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase for you?

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Of course, it's common knowledge that the Sonic fanbase is divided to the point of fissioncy, but other areas of the fanbase such the controversy, fan-art & fan fictions, separate factions (Classic, Modern, Boom), hatred towards Modern Sonic, hell hatred towards Classic Sonic, rejection/ostracization towards the media, fans treated as a joke, and overall disrespect. What is it about this fanbase that irritates you?

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Tbh, both sides of the love-hate spectrum.

People who will always hate Modern Sonic, and people who refuse to see the bad.

It's really annoying to have people hate on something they haven't tried, but it's not much better having people who refuse to say "this game has flaws."

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26 minutes ago, nilesdobbs said:

What is it about this fanbase that irritates you?

Just for the record, we usually like for opening posts to contain a bit more detail. Granted, in this case, the topic itself is still a fine one, so it's not the hugest deal. But for future reference, it's better to do stuff such as sharing your own opinion, more framing for the discussion, and/or some other elaboration rather than just a one-liner like this. Here's a helpful topic to check out for thread-making advice:

In addition, Sonic-related threads need to go in Green Hill Zone, so this will be moved.

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At lot of people don't know how to communicate with actual professionals in the franchise, and it really gets to be..well, cringe worthy at times.  Watching Mike Pollock's twitter is a case study on such things.  The man has far more patience than I do, that's for certain.

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I feel like this topic is going to go south pretty rapidly...

The worst thing about the Sonic fanbase is that SEGA treats the fans like crap. Empty promises and bad games have left the series with a bad reputation and the fans barely united over what Sonic is. There are huge sides of the just the game fans that have no interest in the "other" games. Fanbases aren't hive minds. SEGA tries to recognise all their fans as totally different groups though and that makes things suck so hard.

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8 minutes ago, Aquaslash said:

At lot of people don't know how to communicate with actual professionals in the franchise, and it really gets to be..well, cringe worthy at times.  Watching Mike Pollock's twitter is a case study on such things.  The man has far more patience than I do, that's for certain.

I see a lot worse on Facebook.

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Just gonna say that we're keeping an eye on this topic because it could very easily go bad. There's definitely potential for discussion here, but if it devolves into complaining about fans for daring to have opinions or blatantly vagueing each other then, yeah, we're locking it. Keep it civil, guys.

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4 minutes ago, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

I see a lot worse on Facebook.

I'm surprised and not surprised.  You'd think with there generally being less anonymity on facebook then Twitter, people would weigh their words better but nope.  I think a lot of it has to do with a large part of the fanbase being literal children, who simply don't know better.  I know I can attest a lot of my own past foolishness in the fandom to simple youthful ignorance, as well as a bit of bad influences.  It's an interesting thing to reflect on at least, if only to try an ensure you don't repeat the same mistakes

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I think one issue that I see frequently is people conflating dislike for a game as dislike for the game's fans.

When someone hates a game, or character, or even the entire franchise to use an extreme example, it doesn't mean they hate you. Don't take criticism of the series so personally.

This isn't something all fans do by any means, but it's definitely a common enough problem to warrant a mention.

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Maybe the persecution complex. The idea that people are just biased against the series and intentionally looking for reasons to hate it, the cringing and complaining every time a pre/review mentions the series' history of problems, reacting to any kind of criticism of the series by labeling people haters or trolls or whatever.

Shit's been bad in this series and it's still not great. That shouldn't be a controversial statement.

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I don't like the black and white thinking in the fandom. Either something is completely good or completely bad and I am sometimes left with the impression that neither I nor anybody else are allowed to feel mixed on a Sonic title.

The factionalism sucks too. Do I have a preference for certain Sonic formulas? Yes, like basically every fan ever, I do. But the more I think on it, the more I don't like people typecasting themselves as being "Boost fan" or "Classic fan." The problem with factionalism is that it encourages people to bash games for asinine reasons just because so and so wants to, instead of evaluating the game's qualities and features and basing their words, actions, and opinions off that. It also encourages people to make passive aggressive (or even overtly aggressive) comments about fans, ranging from the relatively benign ("Who the heck thinks this is a good idea!?") to the blaming of fans for stuff happening ("If you buy this game I don't like, then you are the reason Sonic will continue to be bad and games I like will never be."). These comments may well be just emotional responses, not directed at any particular person or group but rather venting frustrations about the franchise, but if you happen to fit the category being condemned (and many of the categories are very broad), its very hard not to take it personally. And I have been vagueposted on several occasions about liking Sonic Boom. Told that the entire Sonic Boom fandom is the reason that Sonic Boom is going to replace mainline Sonic, with the implication that they have no right to exist. Told that people should not be (or straight up aren't) allowed to praise this or that part of a media because lord forbid somebody try to take cues from the good aspects of a controversial media or suggest something that wouldn't be universally loved. Told that Boom fans just aren't passionate about Sonic and just like anything with the Sonic label. A former friend straight up cyberbullied me using these tactics. While obviously said ex-friend was an extreme and flagrant example, its made me really sensitive and somewhat paranoid to these sorts of things. You can say that you didn't direct that snide comment to me or that it wasn't anything personal, but I'm not going to believe you and its going to make it a lot harder for me to take you seriously in the future (unless you apologize for it and make an  effort not to do it again).

I think Monkey Destruction Switch hit the nail on the head. Sonic fans tend to view fans in other factions as "opponents", who must be vanquished so that they may get their desired Sonic. Acting like subjectivity and objectivity must be treated as wholly independent, like oil and water, and lord help you if you think something isn't factual. Asking people to elaborate on their ideas, but not with the intent of learning more about their perspective to understand them better but rather with the intent of getting enough content to rip somebody to shreds. And you also get things that seem like contradictions, such as fans proposing that new fans are badly needed for the franchise when pitching their ideas only to later claim that Sonic games need to cater more to hardcore fans and not constantly try to draw in casuals when faced with ideas they don't like.

The internet encourages reactionary comments, but here are some helpful tips to avoid making them yourself:

-- If something makes you feel a strong emotion, particularly if that emotion is anger or frustration, wait a bit to calm down before posting. In heightened emotional state, you have a high chance of making very embarrassing, inflammatory statements that seem like a good idea at the time but can't be taken back. By the time you get to a calmer state of mind, there's a good chance that you've convinced yourself of the (often ridiculous and untrue) statement or started a flame war that can't be fixed by editing out the bad parts of the post. You don't want this, and neither does anybody else. There is often pressure to mount a quick response, which the internet encourages, but you don't have to. There is absolutely no shame in going out for a walk, making art, playing games, etc. to calm yourself down before responding.

-- Before replying, consider if the person you wish to converse with is worth your time. Somebody who, for example but not limited to, admits to liking or not liking Sonic Forces but can't clearly explain why is not worth trying to reason with because it is likely that they do not have any or many rational reasons for liking or disliking Forces. And that's not inherently bad-- most people have that one game that by all logic they shouldn't like but by some miracle they do. And the opposite too-- that is to say, one game that by all logic they should like and yet they don't at all. Trying to extract some logical reason is going to get you weird answers. Acting as though detailed logical reasons are a requirement for truly liking or disliking a game on a personal level is going to kick off a flame war. And if somebody is being irrational in a flame-y way, hit the report button and move on. The guy who says that all Classic fans are elitists or Modern Sonic fans are all idiots isn't looking for a debate, but the mods would appreciate you telling them about him so he can be disciplined accordingly. If a user is particularly bad, you can ignore them while retaining the ability to report their posts if you sense they've said something rule-breaking.

-- Before you ask a question, make sure you are open to any response and are not just looking for a particular answers. Sonic fans can, will, and do give you the answer you don't want or like. Instead of being rude and dismissive, respectfully criticize the answer and/or accept that some people just have a different perspective on stuff. Also refer to the previous point on whether the person is worth your time.

-- Don't snipe specific users. However, if you are going to criticize somebody in particular, don't be a coward. That means don't vaguepost in public-- own up to the fact that you're having a problem with this person to a mod or that person. Talk to them or a mod in private first, ignore if the former shows that they will not listen. Be willing to listen yourself. If you're worried about coming off as harsh or snide, PM a mod for editing and advising on if this is a good idea before sending off the PM.

-- If you tell a joke or snark at somebody and they react adversely, don't tell them about how "its just a joke man" or keep using it. Apologize and move on. That doesn't mean don't joke and snark-- just don't direct a particular joke or snark at a user that you know won't appreciate it.

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Most annoying part of the fandom I'd say is the passive aggressive passes that are thrown around among people arguing on here. If you disagree with something someone says fine, but don't be a fucking asshole about it and try and subtly pass criticism on them as if you're the one with some form of high ground, because even if you're correct you just look pretentious. Idk if I've done it myself, but you can be damn sure that I'm going to continue choosing my words carefully the next time I get into an argument.

Other than that I'd say everything else is somewhat expected of most fandoms. I know our reputation precedes us but I like to think we've grown better of the years, even if by a little, and especially in comparison to the new fandoms on the block. Personally I've kind sat on the side lines of ours for years until Mania gave me enough encouragement to try interacting with other fans, because I was actually a bit afraid of how bad everyone was as I bought into the narrative that Sonic fans were the worst by a country mile.

However, after having been a part of this forum for ten months now I think most of you guys are pretty cool. Even if we erupt into pages upon pages of disagreement over Sonic Forces; overall you guys are pretty chill.

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1) This isn't specific to sonic fans, but their desire to defend a company that has routinely done them wrong in the face of the consumers own self interest that people will just try to suggest that people should criticize sonic games or point out their flaws that they are being " haters" is something I despise. And if you someone who wishes to put their head down and live in their own safe space, that's totally ok. But when you are on twitter upset that people are upset that people think a product that looks bad looks bad, it just makes you look like sucker. Stanning for a company who doesn't really care about you so much as they care about the dollerysoo's in your bank account. Again this isn't specific to sonic, but this fanaticism of companies is a bad thing from multiple angles  , the other angles are far more serious and are more about other companies so we will keep to this one. But it is a problem

2)Some fans treating other fans like they are " ruining sonic" on the other end of that spectrum you got folks on twitter suggesting that people buying this game are the worst and are contributing to the downfall of sonic. And while on some technically level depending how you interpret sonic's recent 3d output it maybe can be seen as a point. And I myself in the previous point posted my disdain for fanaticism towards any company especially one doing you wrong, and how people seem to be content with half ass jobs. Some folks, like what they like, and if they like forces that's fine. That's totally fine but it didn't start with forces, it used to be adventure fans, classic fans suggesting they are ruining the franchise by being interested in something. It causes unnecessary division and ruins conversation. Stops parts of the fanbase from talking about the real issue everyone is having issues with sonic, sega. 

3) People who are who take on "shame" for what the franchise does. You don't own sonic, why do you care? I mean you can criticize business decisions and staff, but shame? I saw someone say they were ashamed at all the adventure " edgyness" in forces, why do you care. Some folks like that, let them enjoy it. If you have problems with the business decisions of sega voice them but there is no need to feel shame. Because youtuber whoever is gonna say bad things about sonic. If hypothetical youtuber feels like he needs to speed an extended amount of time making fun of any aspect of sonic, that is their prerogative. If they wanna waste time like that " oh look at all these OC's , weird fan art jokes"  if they wanna do that, criticize them then. Or fucking ignore them

4) People who don't understand why sonic has some of the perception it has. Like previously mentioned, some of sonic's perception is meme based, and isn't really based in reality, shitty friends, weird fanart , ect ect. But there are a lot of those criticisms of sonic that can be based in to particularly bad games in the series doing shit poorly. It doesn't mean that people cannot enjoy those games, but you need to understand on some level the perception people have of some of these games, to understand their disdain. Does that make their words correct, oh god no. But you should probably blame sega for putting out such shitty products to allow for all this

5) Tumblr. You might be like... wait... tumblr? That's not specifically sonic related. I'll explain , I don't hate tumblr I actually love it. However tumblr makes for a good micro-chasms, or macro-chasms depending on the situation. This however is a situation where tumblr is representative of a problem in media fandom as a whole and one particularly prevelant in sonic. People feeling like they are taking ownership of the characters and the brand they are in. So there's this episode of south park I fucking hate, along with them suggesting that people making bad movies is on the same level of rape, and that being shitty joke in itself. The episode ends on " it belongs to the fans " in the end as a lesson, after arresting George Lucas and Stephen Spielberg for previously mentioned dumb joke actions. And while the south park crew very much, accept this motto for their own work, to the degree they just made a whole episode about shipping And while it works for them, I would argue it doesn't really work for a lot of franchises, if not most of them. 

Now i'm not saying that fans can't do amazing work, fans made mania. I'm not even saying fans can't interpret shit differently in your franchise, that's also fine . My issue is when that becomes toxic , when you start getting angry at other peoples interpretations, when you bring up your own interpretation in an argument and it gets shut down for you to then get upset when people bring the official series logic to you. When you create a fan work and you expect praise but people, often rightfully so criticize your work, fairly suggesting that it doesn't interest them because its so far beyond what the orginal series was this interptation seems to have no basis in it besides characters, and if that's it why use them

Now is sonic the worst at this? As far as I know, no. Other fanbases have gone to deathreats, and in some cases becoming threatening to creators of the original content and sometimes actors and actors families. As far as I know that isn't happening, but just in case, don't fucking threaten anyone working on sonic they are people will lives and aren't a conveyerbelt that shoots out video games. Back to my point but it is a problem, and tumblr tends to be a host of these sorts of problems for multiple fanbases his my titling of this point " tumblr". 

I don't like it, you don't own sonic, I don't own sonic we can interpret it but at the end of the day the will of the franchise is up to what sega decides to do, and you shouldn't get pissy if someone doesn't like your interpenetration of the franchise or you don't like theirs

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There's quite a few things I could say that can get annoying about the Sonic fanbase. It stinks too, because I have seen many times where the community actually does come together in a positive way and unite for things. You see it at conventions all the time. I've seen it doing charity live streams. This community can be so much better. It doesn't have to be this...toxic. But the moment Sonic news breaks out, or the moment a past Sonic game is brought up, immediately the debates turn into "is this game good/bad" arguments and flame wars.

One thing I feel that the fanbase has is massive entitlement. Some people seem to think that a Sonic game must only cater to their standards of a Sonic game. If it doesn't, then even if the game is a massive success that sells millions of copies, then the game automatically sucks and everyone else that disagrees is wrong. Some fans are so close-minded that thinking from a business perspective (SEGA is a video gaming company trying to make money, they're a business) instead of a personal perspective is just not possible. Some fans think they run SEGA, when they don't. I think that that has been the only  downside to the growing fan influence that has been happening with SEGA internally in the last decade. Egos have been growing, and people seem to turned "we're listening to fans" into "we're obeying fans". But I think the biggest problem that I have about some Sonic fans, which hasn't already been mentioned here anyway, is that a lot of them think they know everything about game design, about promoting them, and act like experts, even if they have no experience in the field. I, myself, never claim to be an expert. I just research the brand's past and post my findings/observations on occasion, and that's all. But some fans sure act like they're experts.

Now, don't get me wrong. Negative Sonic fans are not 100% to blame here. I've seen positive Sonic fans go "stop complaining" and it comes off very awkwardly. Because it's not the fact they're complaining that is the problem. Even SEGA encourages feedback and critique, and even those that aren't that positive have every right to voice their concerns. The problem is how they're doing it. Going into every single thread related to that game and going off like a broken record doesn't help. Getting angry at opposing opinions doesn't help either. It's one thing to be critical, it's another thing entirely to be overbearing. And I feel some fans get into that "overbearing" territory.

This is not going to be a franchise that has consistency with its gameplay styles. SEGA likes to keep things fresh. Is that a bad thing? It depends on the situation. Even now, with Forces, SEGA couldn't resist putting in a different gameplay style with the Custom Hero. But the other reason why is because this fanbase has so many different preferences and standards for a Sonic game that "you can't please anyone" is a phrase that SEGA really has to come to terms with.

That said, the fanbase hasn't ruined Sonic itself for me. I didn't get into Sonic because of fans. I got into Sonic because I like Sonic games, love the general lore that the universe has and, as a pinball fan, adore the way SEGA has embraced pinball in Sonic content the past 25 years. No Sonic fanbase rules in the universe will stop me!

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For me, the part that has let Sega think that vocal tracks are a cool addition to Sonic games, as to me, they make Sonic look really cheesy.

No offense, seriously.

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3 minutes ago, Natie said:

As for what I dislike, the division mostly. I sometimes wonder if we'd all get along better if Sega hadn't allowed so many wildly different interpretations of Sonic. 

Agreed. The fanbase division is only a consequence of what Sega has done to the franchise. 

I can understand they wanted the best with Modern Sonic back in the day, but I can't understand why did they go with Sonic Boom, knowing what it would imply. Makes you wonder how Sega is still alive, with such dumb decisions.

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Honestly? The best Modern Sonic I've played is Sonic Adventure, with Generations coming close. Unleashed would have been mega close to Sonic Adventure if it weren't for the Werehog.

The problem is because Sonic had a gazillion playstyles over the years, they'll be a number of groups that like this gameplay or that one better.

Sonic Forces is going to create another set of fans, even if it's a small one. With the Avatar inclusion. Now they'll be Avatar fans who want Avatar to be in future Sonic games.

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