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Sonic Forces - Japanese Introduction Trailer

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I'm not sure, but for me another "world" would mean another planet. Maybe the "Mobius and Earth are two different places" thing is actually true? You know, from the official-but-not-so-official bible.

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Regarding Classic Sonic's status; one reason I could see them going with this 'alternate dimension' thing is maybe to try dodging a question like this:

"If Classic Sonic is past-Sonic, and he's flung into the future, then how is there ALSO a Modern Sonic in said future? Shouldn't he not exist after Classic disappeared?"

If not that, then I'm clueless. (And to think, this most likely wouldn't even be an issue, had they not added Classic Sonic to the game in the first place...)

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31 minutes ago, Jango said:

I'm not sure, but for me another "world" would mean another planet. Maybe the "Mobius and Earth are two different places" thing is actually true? You know, from the official-but-not-so-official bible.

As far as we know they do currently operate under "two human and animal worlds" but I don't think that ever included Classic Sonic. Man, that would be a whole other layer of confusion...

Quote

Classic Sonic is not Sonic from the past, or Sonic from another dimension.. he's an alien from another planet that just happens to be very similar! In fact, Sonic actually goes to his world every other game, so there could be crossovers all the time! Sonic Generations 3, 4, 5, and forever confirmed!

 Classic Sonic and Blaze have their own planets/worlds in their own worlds/dimension.

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Okay. First off, that trailer was the definition of HYPE. Damn Sega. Second. Sonic from another world/dimension? Eh. We all know that will either not be explained or poorly explained. GHZ modern looks nice. And the 2nd half of Fist bump. That's where all my hype went. SEGA release it on Youtube already!

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Cant we just look at this in the DBZ/Super way in which Future Trunks comes from a timeline were goku and all the Z fighter died. Making it multiple timelines.

Or the split timelines in the Legend of Zelda.

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3 hours ago, Almar said:

It's a sad day in the Sonic Fanclub when we have members defending unneeded retcons that are contrary to the intent of the games that started Modern Sonic.

For me i'm not defending it , but I get it. There's a group of people who don't want their thing " tainted" 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Tails spin said:

Cant we just look at this in the DBZ/Super way in which Future Trunks comes from a timeline were goku and all the Z fighter died. Making it multiple timelines.

Or the split timelines in the Legend of Zelda.

We can just look at it that way, the same way we could just ignore it and other stuff they come up with like "the moon is always on the not-broken side" or "Sonic is a hedgehog", but Sega doesn't see it that way.

Sure there could be theories for an in-universe explanation (even if they don't jell well with official information), but ultimately they're just theories and there most likely won't be an actual explanation, so we can still talk about the meta choice for doing things the way they did and how it contradicts or doesn't contradict what came prior.

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2 hours ago, Jango said:

And Tails uses the word "sekai" when talking about Classic, and sekai means world in japanese, not dimension, so the english addaptation already started with the wrong foot.

Well, i can see the word “World” being used to refer to both, planet and dimension, but in this case it probably is like Blaze’s “world” which is the Sol dimension

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9 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

It's clear by now that there's a need from Classic Sonic fans to have the Classic Sonic era detached from modern Sonic to "preserve it's purity" or whatever.
(And I assume that's what was meant with "territorial actions".)
Man, the rage I saw some fans have with Sonic Mania ending with perfect pure Classic Sonic becoming associated with filthy conteminated Modern Sonic.
And I sympathise a little with their feelings, sometimes I wish Colors era Sonic was disconnected from the Adventure era too, like Tim Burton Batman from the 60's one.
But there's no point, these "soft reboots" were never designed like one. There's too much of the diffrent era's bleeding into each other to find a nice clean cut.


Best option is not to care. But we're hardcore nerd fans, so that's not an option.
My preferred alternative option is just to assume that all the era's had the exact same adventures take place in them, just in their own style.
So sure, Sonic Adventure 1 was being written like a direct sequel to Sonic 3 and Knuckles and CD in several regards.
Angel island looks diffrent, altough still having some of the same zones (Ice cap) but the master emerald in a completely diffrent place (The shrine being outside instead of inside). So it's just a parralel universe angel island? And Amy's not directly remembering Sonic CD  but a comparible adventure that we never saw. She wore her modern clothes and the envirement didn't resemble a Sonic CD location. So presumingly she's remembering a diffrent adventure where she was kidnapped, an unseen parralel universe version of Sonic CD.


Just like how Sonic Boom loves to throw in Shadow in there with no explanation, leaving us to assume some sort of Sonic adventure 2 esque adventure took place in Sonic Boom as well (Would love to see that for the hilarious tonal conflict that would cause. Heck, it's even funnier to imagine a Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) type adventure taking place in the Sonic Boom universe. Featuring Mayor Fink as the GUN Commander. Darn it Sonic, stop giving me so much inspiration for parodies.)


Dr. Gerald Robotnik being inspired by hedgehogs and echidna's still works with an only Modern Sonic perspective because, well, Sonic and Knuckles DO exist in the Adventure world, it's not human only. Even if the Adventure games do a terrible job in showing how common it is for anthro's to exist there. It almost comes across only Sonic and friends are specific lab experiments walking around in an entirely human world. Altough considering humans talk casually about them in Adventure 1, I have to assume anthro's are a regular recurring occurance. Otherwise even Big the Cat would be treated like some sort of celebrity.


As for Sonic and the black knight, Sonic didn't travel in time there, he traveled inside a book. And the game vaguely implies Sonic was just dreaming (or even making it up as an excuse to miss Amy's date). So I don't think Black Knight and Secret Rings are helpful in uncovering this puzzle.
In fact, there isn't really a puzzle to be solved here. All these plotholes are caused by incompotence, diffrent writers, diffrent style changes, things outside of the scope of the story itself. It's impossible to find a magical explanation where all the puzzle pieces fall into place, it's a mess and it'll just get worse with each new game. Just assume everything is explained in an offscreen adventure that took place. Of which we only witnissed a parralel dimension of it.


What baffles me the most about Iizuka's stupid attempts in splitting everything up is his exclusive use of Classic Sonic style levels in Modern Sonic stories.
If you want Sonic 1-2-3& Knuckles to be their own pure, special, unconteminated disconnected perfect universe so badly, then stop shoving Green Hill Zone, Chemical plant zone and Sky sanctuary everywhere. I mean, it's certainly possible both worlds (And even Boom's) have the exact same locations.
But you're doing a terrible job communicating to us what's going on when the Classic zones get all this focus in a Modern Sonic game. He's supposed to be communicating a clear and distinct seperation between the two worlds.
MEMBER CLASSIC SONIC??? should not be your primary design philosophy in constructing a universe that's specifically NOT Classic Sonic's.

Well, unless Sonic Forces will have Classic Sonic specifically mention how Modern Sonic's version of his zones are truly diffrent from his...But considering Classic Sonic is mute AND that most people would interpret statements like that to be referring to Dr. Eggman's destruction more so then a confirmation of a parralel universe, I'm not holding my breath.

TL:DR, an offscreen wizard adventure did it.

Or, the Super Genesis Wave is to blame. 

 

And also, I feel that indeed the Colors era Sonic needs to be detached from modern.

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14 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Or, the Super Genesis Wave is to blame. 

 

And also, I feel that indeed the Colors era Sonic needs to be detached from modern.

But.. Modern Sonic is always the current Sonic

Because he's modern

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5 minutes ago, Razule said:

But.. Modern Sonic is always the current Sonic

Because he's modern

I mean there's a contingent of people who want to separate modern sonic from adventure era sonic because of tone change, but forces kinda put a dent into that

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2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I mean there's a contingent of people who want to separate modern sonic from adventure era sonic because of tone change, but forces kinda put a dent into that

Unless.. Forces is the beginning of a new Sonic era?

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2 hours ago, Spooky Mulder said:

Has more of an “end” feel than a beginning. Forces feels like a series finale to everything since Sonic Adventure. 

Considering nothing has been anything like sonic adventure since... sonic 06

And this is the first thing in a while that feels anything close to that, and its dissapointing

That really really fucking sad

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3 hours ago, Spooky Mulder said:

Has more of an “end” feel than a beginning. Forces feels like a series finale to everything since Sonic Adventure. 

That could be applied to a lot of games though.. 

Sonic Adventure 2

Shadow the Hedgehog

Sonic 06

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic Generations (for the series as a whole)

And.. now this

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10 minutes ago, Razule said:

That could be applied to a lot of games though.. 

Sonic Adventure 2

Shadow the Hedgehog

Sonic 06

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic Generations (for the series as a whole)

And.. now this

SA2 only felt like somewhat of an end because of the real world context surrounding the DC's death; I feel the element of uncertainty with SEGA's fortunes melded itself into the game somewhat. Even then, it was more an end for Shadow than the series (till they effed that up).

Shadow... I didn't get an ending feel from at all. That was just a weird tangent.

Sonic 06 felt more like an attempted beginning than an end, given it was essentially a reboot that tried 'going back to basics'. Again, it felt like an end due to real-world context - in other words, how shit it was.

Unleashed definitely felt like more of a beginning for the series, particularly bearing in mind it was right after 06. 

Generations again didn't feel like any kind of end to me; just a continuation of the era established in Unleashed.

With Forces though, I think this "finale" style thing goes beyond the fact it doesn't look very good. The stakes are technically higher than ever in terms of story, the entire kitchen sink is being thrown in gameplay-wise, and it feels like a big climax to everything that's been built since Unleashed in terms of gameplay and aesthetic.

...well, a climax in everything besides actual game quality. 

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18 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

I'm still reeling from the fact that the game basically implies that those soldiers got completely annihilated by Infinite tbh

Even Shadow the Hedgehog only had human soldiers surrender after being shot...

Is it really much different than Chaos killing a clan of Echidnas or Eggman nuking prison island or Gamma killing his brothers or Chaos wiping out Station Square or the Black Arms blowing up the White House or Westopolis getting Carpet Bombed or Mephilies impaling Sonic or God knows how many other homicides I can dig up off the top of my head.

Dude's getting merc'd ain't anything new round these parts.

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See, this is what happens when you come home from work. You've got a new trailer to watch and 10 pages of conversation you've missed out on.

Thankfully it was mostly just more "This game is super linear but the story is looking good" talk, so it's safe to say we've pretty much exhausted what we've got to say about the game now. I just need this thing to come out already. We're reaching the point where it's only a couple weeks away and thinking about it makes my heart flare up.

Like, I hope I don't die the day before it comes out. I'm looking both ways before I cross the street more often now.

Also, Omega somehow manages to look cool even when broken down. My man. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Is it really much different than Chaos killing a clan of Echidnas or Eggman nuking prison island or Gamma killing his brothers or Chaos wiping out Station Square or the Black Arms blowing up the White House or Westopolis getting Carpet Bombed or Mephilies impaling Sonic or God knows how many other homicides I can dig up off the top of my head.

Dude's getting merc'd ain't anything new round these parts.

Near every situation is basically the "Show a horrible event for shock value, but skip around the consequences for the sake of the age rating" trope that so many cartoons use for their benefit, though. A splat of blood being thrown into the air after a villain "kills" a hero, only for them to be fine, albeit injured afterward; or a city getting destroyed by a calamity, only to reveal that most occupants managed to evacuate or escape, miraculously...


Station Square?

A lot of people survived and cheered Sonic on as he turned into Super Sonic, so the entire city probably had the same chance of survival


Prison Island?

Most of GUN is composed of robots, the only human on there is the Heavy Dog commander, and his death is about as confirmed as most of the station square occupants


The White House in Shadow?

The President and the rest of the White House escaped


Westopolis?

Orders were issued for an evacuation when it was attacked


Even the Echidna clan couldn't have been killed, since Knuckles had yet to be born at that point in time. 
 

Sonic's "death", Maria's fatal wound, and Gerald's execution are the only examples of an on-screen, practically confirmed death, but those aren't exactly the same as randomly killing off innocent bystanders like all those other examples could have been.

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Infinite on the other hand just straight up eviscerated these random mooks. Granted it's still PG in that it's not showing any gore or bodies, but a lot less is left up to interpretation, weirdly enough...

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Honestly I don't think there's any way that Infinite actually just vaporized those guys before our eyes. Dimensions, and illusions and stuff.. he probably teleported them to Eggman's prison or something.

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