Sonic Forces - Japanese Introduction Trailer

[Diogenes]

They just got knocked over by some harmless explosions.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Well, I'd say the most brutal thing that happened in the games was Maria getting shot with a realistic pistol. Infinite killing soldiers (as evidenced by the gun that plops on the ground) with a laser isn't as much of a gut punch to the viewer. 

Edit: I do think they're being killed, though. Those explosions are happening behind the barricades right on top of the soldiers. 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Haven't been following the conversation up til now, but just wanted to drop in and say this was more an anti-hype trailer than anything for me. It consolidated a lot of things about Forces that do the opposite of appeal to me. Feels like it's trying to be cinematic more than it's trying to be an engaging game, the avatars are ugly as sin (seriously, they're terrible), Classic Sonic is from another world, and above all, an overwhelming sense of pointlessly trying win a bunch of different people's favor instead of having a clear, compelling, and, well, good vision of what it wants to be. I'm just not feeling it. I feel like maybe what Sonic is trying to be just isn't for me anymore. I'll stick around for IDW and potential Mania follow-ups, for sure, but not so much for modern Sonic's current direction. I just don't care for or about Forces in any way, but I sincerely hope others have fun with it.

[Detective Kaito]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Like, I hope I don't die the day before it comes out. I'm looking both ways before I cross the street more often now.

 

This is legit exactly how I felt when Sonic Mania was close to release. Not feeling it much for Forces though.

[Dr. Detective]

As excited as I am for the story and the game, there really is no reason the levels couldn't be the way you guys are asking for. I don't really understand why they aren't. I can't say it's too huge a deal for me personally but it'll end up affecting me regardless since I want to be apart of the community and I'm going to hear more about it as time goes on.

Kind of sucks to think about. All they had to do was go forward with the story and improve upon what they had before. I feel like things would have generally been fine. I don't really know why one thing has to get left behind whenever they give more focus to something else.

 

1 hour ago, Detective Kaito said:

This is legit exactly how I felt when Sonic Mania was close to release. Not feeling it much for Forces though.

But you know the feeling at least. Conversely, I wasn't feeling it for Mania but goddamn, it's my turn now and I may lose it.

[The Deleter]

The fact that the gun drops vertically rather than bouncing along as if blown away by the explosions, it drops on the same spot of terrain as the soldiers were standing on, and the explosions happen in the exact same spaces as the soldiers were standing, makes it look more like it's an intentional kill shot, yeah. If the gun were bouncing away, or was in a different location, it'd make more sense to believe there was nothing more than disingenuous shock value going on here, but since it's so specific, it doesn't really feel like that's the case.

Even a show as brutal as Hunter X Hunter has "implied", """"PG"""" deaths like this, but the difference is that they give you no reason to believe the opposite happened and everything is a lot better than it actually seems, like other shows would afterwards. And it's so specificly executed, it can't be interpreted as anything other than what was implied.

[Diogenes]

I don't think we can confidently analyze the ballistic trajectory of a laser gun in a split second of a video game cutscene to tell if the person holding it was blasted into meaty chunks or if they just dropped it.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I don't think we can confidently analyze the ballistic trajectory of a laser gun in a split second of a video game cutscene to tell if the person holding it was blasted into meaty chunks or if they just dropped it.

I think he just dropped it and ran.

[Dr. Detective]

I'm reminded of the beginning of Sly 3, where Dr. M is in an elevator with one of his henchman and he's like-

Dr. M: Hey Richard, how's your wife.

Richard: Oh she's fine. 

Dr. M: And your son. What was his name? Mike?

Richard: Mark sir. Very thoughtful.

Dr. M: It's a shame you won't be seeing any of them again.

Richard: Sir?

Dr. M: Fraid I poisoned your drink at lunch. Sorry Richard, but I don't tolerate poor performance. You should have changed the codes from 123 after you installed the new system.

Richard: I'm sorry sir! I'll change.

Dr. M: No. You'll die. Any second now.

*Richard dies*

*Dr. M gets a phone call*

Dr. M: Oh wonderful news! I'll be right down. Oh and bring a janitor for the elevator. Richard's got sloppy.

And that's how Sly finds out the code for Dr. M's vault. By listening into that conversation.

Keep in mind that this is something Dr. Eggman would never do. Ever. Probably not even to one of his own robots (Maybe Infinite would, I don't know). I'm just saying that this talk of death has reminded me of when it's happened in other PG games. 

 

[Sega DogTagz]

27 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Station Square?

A lot of people survived and cheered Sonic on as he turned into Super Sonic, so the entire city probably had the same chance of survival

Prison Island?

Most of GUN is composed of robots, the only human on there is the Heavy Dog commander, and his death is about as confirmed as most of the station square occupants

The White House in Shadow?

The President and the rest of the White House escaped

Westopolis?

Orders were issued for an evacuation when it was attacked

Even the Echidna clan couldn't have been killed, since Knuckles had yet to be born at that point in time. 
 

 

Westopolis, Prison Island and the White House I'll give you.

But Chaos sent a 100-story tidal wave into a densely populated city in the middle of of Rush hour. Taxi's were swerving as the earth split open and water shot out of skyscrapers. Even if some people survived to cheer Sonic in the aftermath, there is no realistic scenario where you could feasibly imagine that there were no casualties. The same is true of the Knuckles clan. No one said Chaos killed everybody, but Knuckles is the last of his kind for a reason. Its heavily implied Chaos brought down their civilization. It heavily implied that Chaos at bare minimum gored those warriors that trampled his chao.

What is left up to interpretation about a mega tsunami hitting a populated city or hearing warriors screaming in terror off screen?

 

[The Deleter]

14 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't think we can confidently analyze the ballistic trajectory of a laser gun in a split second of a video game cutscene to tell if the person holding it was blasted into meaty chunks or if they just dropped it.

Oh don't worry, I'm sure they'll be creating new models specifically made for the former case, rich and full in their internal anatomy :V

I'm also sure that they just meant to imply that someone only dropped a gun with this scene as well; clearly what they intended to convey with this shot instead of... showing someone physically dropping their gun from their hands...

We'll see though, I guess : P

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

3 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Westopolis, Prison Island and the White House I'll give you.

But Chaos sent a 100-story tidal wave into a densely populated city in the middle of of Rush hour. Taxi's were swerving as the earth split open and water shot out of skyscrapers. Even if some people survived to cheer Sonic in the aftermath, there is no realistic scenario where you could feasibly imagine that there were no casualties. The same is true of the Knuckles clan. No one said Chaos killed everybody, but Knuckles is the last of his kind for a reason. Its heavily implied Chaos brought down their civilization. It heavily implied that Chaos at bare minimum gored those warriors that trampled his chao.

What is left up to interpretation about a mega tsunami hitting a populated city or hearing warriors screaming in terror off screen?

 

For some reason, your comment about chaos made me imagine him forcing 50 gallons of water down an echidna's throat causing him to burst open in a gory explosion. 

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, A Zombie KING heavy engine said:

For some reason, your comment about chaos made me imagine him forcing 50 gallons of water down an echidna's throat causing him to burst open in a gory explosion. 

 

[The Deleter]

23 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Westopolis, Prison Island and the White House I'll give you.

But Chaos sent a 100-story tidal wave into a densely populated city in the middle of of Rush hour. Taxi's were swerving as the earth split open and water shot out of skyscrapers. Even if some people survived to cheer Sonic in the aftermath, there is no realistic scenario where you could feasibly imagine that there were no casualties. The same is true of the Knuckles clan. No one said Chaos killed everybody, but Knuckles is the last of his kind for a reason. Its heavily implied Chaos brought down their civilization. It heavily implied that Chaos at bare minimum gored those warriors that trampled his chao.

What is left up to interpretation about a mega tsunami hitting a populated city or hearing warriors screaming in terror off screen?

 

It's the fact that it's unrealistic in the first place that gives the entire scene the benefit of the doubt, though. It was a 100 story tidal wave taller than the tallest skyscrapers there. There is no earthly way a bunch of people could survive that amount of weight and force crashing down on them... but they did. Somehow, they had the durability of cartoon characters, so therefore everyone else should follow the same rules, in implication. If not everyone died, in a large enough number to make that loud of a cheer, why would a majority of them die, if any in the first place?

If you show a character encounter a situation which would logically mean death or injury in fiction, but then reveal that they are perfectly fine afterwards, you've lost the benefit of doubt mere implication grants you. "Oh man, that looks like a deadly crisis!" all the sudden becomes "It's just a cartoon; they'll be fine..."

The Echidna clan is probably the closest to this being the case, though, yeah, but considering Station Square's flooding exists in the same game, and there was never any real confirmation for Chaos being the reason why the tribe dwindled, I don't reeeeeally think it deserves the benefit of the doubt, either, considering the context...

[Sega DogTagz]

2 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

It's the fact that it's unrealistic in the first place that gives the entire scene the benefit of the doubt, though. It was a 100 story tidal wave taller than the tallest skyscrapers there. There is no earthly way a bunch of people could survive that amount of weight and force crashing down on them... but they did. Somehow, they had the durability of cartoon characters, so therefore everyone else should follow the same rules, in implication. If not everyone died, in a large enough number to make that loud of a cheer, why would a majority of them die, if any in the first place?

If you show a character survive a situation which would logically mean death or injury in fiction, but then reveal that they are perfectly fine afterwards, you've lost the benefit of doubt mere implication grants you. "Oh man, that looks like a deadly crisis!" all the sudden becomes "It's just a cartoon; they'll be fine..."

The Echidna clan is probably the closest to this being the case, though, yeah, but considering Station Square's flooding exists in the same game, and there was never any real confirmation for Chaos being the reason why the tribe dwindled, I don't reeeeeally think it deserves the benefit of the doubt, either, considering the context...

You can't have it both ways though.

If your going the bemoan what Infinite did, then I can play that same card. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, shoot even Cream have tanked laser fire before. Under this kind of Cartoon logic, we should assume Infinite's death laser should be little more than a deterrent. It would do no more to kill civies than that 100 ft tidal wave.

Either apply logic equally across the board or don't apply it at all. You can't pick and choose which obviously deadly things we are supposed to take seriously and which ones an NPC can shrug off like it was nothing more than a papercut.

 

And just for arguments sake, a City like station square would have a population in the Millions. Chaos could have killed 3 or 4 million and there would have still been more than enough left to make a deafening roar of support.

[Dr. Detective]

I'm actually really loving the way these enivornments look, re-watching the trailer again.

Straight Sand Hill Zone has a really cool look to it, with the loopy-loops from Green Hill all lopsided and submerged in sand and robot parts strung about the place. I'm glad the look of the stages are enhancing the story they're telling too it seems like.

[Jango]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

H O L Y S H I T.

That's nasty.

BTW, I totally agree with the Infinite's laser thing.

[The Deleter]

2 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

You can't have it both ways though.

If your going the bemoan what Infinite did, then I can play that same card. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, shoot even Cream have tanked laser fire before. Under this kind of Cartoon logic, we should assume Infinite's death laser should be little more than a deterrent. It would do no more to kill civies than that 100 ft tidal wave.

Either apply logic equally across the board or don't apply it at all. You can't pick and choose which obviously deadly things we are supposed to take seriously and which ones an NPC can shrug off like it was nothing more than a papercut.

 

And just for arguments sake, a City like station square would have a population in the Millions. Chaos could have killed 3 or 4 million and there would have still been more than enough left to make a deafening roar of support.

Easy:

They didn't have any rings :V

I don't understand what you're arguing here. I'm saying implication isn't enough to determine what a situation actually is once you change the rules in an unexpected or unrealistic way. That's all implication has going for it in this context: association and consistency. You're arguing that it is, regardless of that. Why?

There could be fatalities, sure. Maybe a couple people died. Maybe several million died. Maybe somewhere inbetween. But there's no reason to assume that's the case when the only evidence that exists, contradicts it's deadliness in the first place...

[Razule]

38 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

What is left up to interpretation about a mega tsunami hitting a populated city or hearing warriors screaming in terror off screen?

The fact that it's a kid's game for one..

[Dr. Detective]

I'm jumpy as fuck right now guys. I missed the 10 page conversation to shave off all this hype for an actual adventure again so I'm just jittering up and down going "Omega! Eggman! Infinite! Charmy! Silver! Knuckles! Vector! HUGE ASS METAL SONIC!"

It's interesting how angry I was when this was announced. Now I'm in the middle but edging towards being more positive the more my excitement to experience a story again is.

I'm not under the delusion that it'll be everything I've ever wanted and more. But the fact is, they're doing a lot of shit here that I never thought they'd do again. If it comes out and it turns out that there is actual hope for the story and characters after all then there's gotta be hope for getting a game that'll do EVERYTHING well.

Even if it's just one game. If the story manages to be up my alley I may have a bit more hope that they'll be able to make at least ONE game that can do that before I die.

Maybe sometime in the next 10 years.

[Sega DogTagz]

Just now, Razule said:

The fact that it's a kid's game for one..

That sure didn't stop em from Killing Maria... or all those other scientists on the Ark... Or Executing Gerald... Or having Eggman and Elise die in a plane crash... 

or should we just assume all those guys are alive because this is a kids game?

 

10 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

I don't understand what you're arguing here. I'm saying implication isn't enough to determine what a situation actually is once you change the rules in an unexpected or unrealistic way. That's all implication has going for it in this context: association and consistency. You're arguing that it is, regardless of that. Why?

There could be fatalities, sure. Maybe a couple people died. Maybe several million died. Maybe somewhere inbetween. But there's no reason to assume that's the case when the only evidence that exists, contradicts it's deadliness in the first place...

 

What I'm getting at is Sonic Team has been killing people just off-screen for a while now. What Infinite appears to do there shouldn't be some kind of shock. Dude's have been getting blown away left and right since SA1 and in body counts that make that scene look tame.

 

I'm actually kind of thrown for a loop by what you appear to be implying here. Seeing that there were some survivors in the aftermath of a cataclysmic event is not proof about the deadliness of what just occurred. That would be like looking at an island nation after a hurricane, seeing 1 building still standing and assume the rest are good too. That's just fooling yourself.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

In Sonic Adventure, the city is shown to be full of people. Then when the water pipes start to burst, there's not a single person in sight. 

Earlier in the game, the tribe knocks over a bunch of Chao. All the echidnas did was knock them over, so maybe they're still alive, but the way their eyes stay open and the violence and rage of Chaos' reaction seems to imply that they've been slain. 

We'll probably get something similar here. A "they died but hey maybe not it's up to you" scenario. 

[StaticMania]

4 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

In Sonic Adventure, the city is shown to be full of people. Then when the water pipes start to burst, there's not a single person in sight. 

Maybe the humans in Station Square were ghost and disappear in times of Crisis...

[SpongicX]

Man, America does nothing to help promote this game productively. I thought this new trailer was neat, and should have been shown sooner. It's about time we actually see some non narrow 3d gameplay. 

On 10/20/2017 at 6:17 AM, Swing said:

I think they just want to focus this time on the characters, who are really popular and have huge fanbases. Or at least they think so. I do not think we will see characters like Cream, Big, Chip, the other Deadly Six, Jet, Elise, Merlina, Shahra etc. in this game who have not asa huge fan following like the others. Blaze maybe can show up. We also saw Rouge in one cutscene. But it depends on how Sega sees Blaze. If they think she is an unpopular character than she will not show up in the game. If they think she is popular than she could get a spotlight in the story.

Plus, Cream seems to be too sweet of a character to want to fight in a war. I can see Charmy and Tails being more up for it, because they fight on a regular basis. Cream is shown to be more innocent at times. This game's setting seems too dark for a character like her. She can't even fight on her own, without having Cheese do all the work for her. I do hope we at least see a small appearance of her, but I doubt she'd be a soldier in the resistance. Charmy and Tails are definitely more useful in a war. Charmy is part of a detective agency, and Tails is a skilled mechanic. What could Cream and Cheese possibly do, without constantly needing to be saved? 

[Salamander]

I don't think there's really much room for argument about the way the series handles death and collateral damage in general.  They show disasters happening, they show people in the vicinity of those disasters, but they (almost) never actually show anyone dying.  It's very deliberately up in the air; you can interpret these scenes as ending in many people dying, sure, but there is also no evidence of those deaths.  It gives the developers deniability when risking offending parents, rating boards, and so on.  The games don't want you to be able to come to a certain conclusion, they want you to be able to believe whatever you're most comfortable with.  Did people die?  Make up your own mind.  There is no canon verdict.