Euro Gamer Interview Nakamura on Forces, Mania and the Future of Sonic

[Blue Blood]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-10-23-sonic-mania-and-its-impact-on-the-future-of-the-sonic-series

Some insight into the series at the moment. Nakamura openly talks about at the subsets of fans as though they're all different and can't all appreciate the same games, which is very irritating to hear.

I've summarised some of the key points below:

• He's not surprised by Mania's success because he knows "people like 2D games because they're easy to get in to".
• It was interesting to see Mania get the reception it got.
• "From the team's perspective, we're still going to be making 3D games for the audience that likes that style of Sonic - when we see the reactions that Mania got, the entire team sat down and thought it was really interesting, and we should break down what people liked about Mania, and in the future - when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania."
• Forces started many years before Mania.
• Iizuka was the only one from Sonic Team really involved in Mania. However, he was feeding back to Sonic Team telling them to include things from Mania in Forces (like the Drop Dash, I guess?).
• The Avatar is aimed at engaging kids, and Forces as a whole is targeted at the modern/younger audience.
• "From a reverse standpoint, we wanted to reintroduce classic Sonic to fans of the modern games - and maybe bring our group of very divided fans together."
• Shadow is there in the story and playable  in Forces to appeal to the Adventure fans.
• He clarifies that a new Nintendo hardware version was planned before they knew anything tangible about the Switch. The Switch was different to what they were expecting in the end and it threw them into a bit of a panic.
• He wants to make a Samba Di Amigo game for the Switch.

I'm really please to see that they're looking at the reasons why Mania was so well-received across the board, but I won't believe that Sonic Team will take the rigth steps forward until I actually see it. People don't like 2D Sonic because it's easy; people like Mania because it's really bloody good in every way. The game has a a very strong direction with it's physics and level design that create a fun and satisfying experience for veterans and casual players alike. It's a game that can appeal to various subsets simply through it's quality and well thought out design. Forces goes on to specifically target individual groups and subsets without going to much effort to deliver a good gameplay experience. It appeals only to a specifically targeted audience and manages to turn off a lot of other fans. They want to bring the fans together? Forces is absolutely the wrong way to do it.

Also yes please to a new Samba Di Amigo game.

[Dee Dude]

That's great to hear guys but uh...if you're gonna make more 3D games, maybe...not have 2D sections in them?

And by level design, I hope they don't mean that future games will take influence by Forces level design cause the results won't exactly be pleasing even as someone who's looking forward to the game.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I hope that the bit about the switch means they've got that version of the game better optimized by now.

[Pawn]

I'm no fan of the Avatar's inclusion, but I honestly cringed when they mentioned the less savoury fan art. What sort of response did they expect?

[PerfectChaos]

It's good that Mania got them to sit down and assess why it was so well-liked and how elements of it could perhaps be transferred to other games, but I don't have faith that they'll take home the right message from the game. Knowing Sonic Team, it seems like they'll probably take a superficial overly-simplistic view of what it did right rather than looking into the nuanced aspects of its great design.

[TheOcelot]

"From the team's perspective, we're still going to be making 3D games for the audience that likes that style of Sonic - when we see the reactions that Mania got, the entire team sat down and thought it was really interesting, and we should break down what people liked about Mania, and in the future - when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania."

Let me guess, classic Sonic will continue to be shoehorned in every Modern 3d Sonic game. Oh joy...

 

"From a reverse standpoint, we wanted to reintroduce classic Sonic to fans of the modern games - and maybe bring our group of very divided fans together."

 

They'll only succeed in driving the fanbase further apart.

[Blue Wisp]

32 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

he was feeding back to Sonic Team telling them to include things from Mania in Forces (like the Drop Dash, I guess?).

Like C L A S S I C S O N I C ?

[Marcello]

They'll just add more 2D sections.

[Jango]

48 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

The Avatar is aimed at engaging kids, and Forces as a whole is targeted at the modern/younger audience.

I'm not even gonna say anything. Remember when I asked another member's age couple of weeks ago? And a bunch of you thought I was just seamlessly judging or disrespecting that person's opinion. Well, no, I was not.

Sonic Team's vision that is all messed up. It's pretty clear that their line of thinking is pretty supercial. A game aimed at kids doesn't need to be easy and automated, nor have over the top edgy villains.

Also, the game as a whole is aimed at kids, but Shadow was included for the Adventure fans, what the fuck? Gee Sonic Team, you really know me! I'm totally buying Forces now, as a Sonic Adventure fan, that's EXACTLY what I wanted!

This will keep repeating itself, and now we have yet another proof that ST doesn't really get what's good and what people actually want from these game's formulas, be it Adventure or Classic/Retro.

Expect more Green Hill Zone for the future and God help us all. No matter what message we give, they're unabble to understand beyong the most basic level, and this piss me the fuck off.

 

 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

33 minutes ago, TheOcelot said:

"From the team's perspective, we're still going to be making 3D games for the audience that likes that style of Sonic - when we see the reactions that Mania got, the entire team sat down and thought it was really interesting, and we should break down what people liked about Mania, and in the future - when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania."

Let me guess, classic Sonic will continue to be shoehorned in every Modern 3d Sonic game. Oh joy...

 

"From a reverse standpoint, we wanted to reintroduce classic Sonic to fans of the modern games - and maybe bring our group of very divided fans together."

 

They'll only succeed in driving the fanbase further apart.

This is the kind of pessimism that just makes me sick. I've been to forums for Jurassic Park, Star Wars, The Simpsons, The Hobbit, Godzilla, and other game series in worse condition than Sonic, and I've never seen negativity so ubiquitous. And it's not just you, and I'm not saying you cant criticize anything. But it's just so many people no matter what, even when it's the best thing we've heard from this team in years. 

[Blue Wisp]

5 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

This is the kind of pessimism that just makes me sick. I've been to forums for Jurassic Park, Star Wars, The Simpsons, The Hobbit, Godzilla, and other game series in worse condition than Sonic, and I've never seen negativity so ubiquitous. And it's not just you, and I'm not saying you cant criticize anything. But it's just so many people no matter what, even when it's the best thing we've heard from this team in years. 

The problem is, when Generations introduced Classic Sonic? Innovative.

When Sonic Mania was announced with Classic Sonic returning to its 2D roots? Throwback/Nostalgia pandering but it works.

When Classic Sonic was announced for not-Sonic Generations 2? Nice.

When the Avatar was announced and his stages were shown to have big 2D sections? Why the fuck is Classic Sonic even here then?

And now they're saying Classic Sonic will be back AGAIN in a 3D game? If you're doing that then STOP FUCKING GIVING MODERN 2D SECTIONS. They're extremely redundant and sluggish to no end, and the worst part is that 2D gameplay consists of 80% of Modern Sonic's gameplay from Sonic Forces from what we've seen. Why the fuck.

[KHCast]

Because they've said similar in the past that never really led to anything. We're not obligated to be excited and happy at what a company says when we've been proven wrong multiple times by them in the past. why do you care if someone that isn't you isn't taking the news at face value?

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

• He's not surprised by Mania's success because he knows "people like 2D games because they're easy to get in to".
• It was interesting to see Mania get the reception it got.

Yeah it was interesting to see the really good game which was really well made and really well designed get a really good reception.

Oh was it 2D? Well let me just throw out all those points.

[Blue Blood]

11 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

This is the kind of pessimism that just makes me sick. I've been to forums for Jurassic Park, Star Wars, The Simpsons, The Hobbit, Godzilla, and other game series in worse condition than Sonic, and I've never seen negativity so ubiquitous. And it's not just you, and I'm not saying you cant criticize anything. But it's just so many people no matter what, even when it's the best thing we've heard from this team in years. 

SEGA have conditioned their fans to be pessimistic with their stream of poor games and poor decisions. It's not the fanbase's fault. A few good things come around now and again, but generally the realistic outlook does veer on pessimistic.

People don't criticise everything no matter what. And Forces is far from the best thing we've had in years.

[JezMM]

Man this whole time I've always seen Classic Sonic's inclusion as pandering to the classic fans, but honestly, I never even considered the idea that we had it completely the wrong way round - they're trying to get kids into Classic Sonic so those games aren't just aimed at aged fans.

Of course they're missing the mark a bit... young kids aren't gonna care what kinda Sonic they're playing if you market it right lol.  But still, an interesting insight.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

50 minutes ago, Jango said:

I'm not even gonna say anything. Remember when I asked another member's age couple of weeks ago? And a bunch of you thought I was just seamlessly judging or disrespecting that person's opinion. Well, no, I was not.

Intentional or not, that's what you ended up doing. It was uncalled for then as it is now still.

And represents the common issue of cynicism overload giving people the mentality of being elitist over people who have legitimate reasons to look forward to the game. Or deem them as the problem as some "defense squad" with no sense of class or respect, some even villifying them as the equivalent of some hive mind.

And that's not the game's fault if people choose to be horrible like that.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

14 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Cala Maria said:

Intentional or not, that's what you ended up doing. It was uncalled for then as it is now still.

And represents the common issue of cynicism overload giving people the mentality of being elitist over people who have legitimate reasons to look forward to the game. Or deem them as the problem as some "defense squad" with no sense of class or respect, some even villifying them as the equivalent of some hive mind.

And that's not the game's fault if people choose to be horrible like that.

That's the word that's more accurate to my concerns about the canvass. Not pessimism, but cynicism. It's so pervasive in today's Sonic community. 

[Jango]

15 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Cala Maria said:

Intentional or not, that's what you ended up doing. It was uncalled for then as it is now still.

And represents the common issue of cynicism overload giving people the mentality of being elitist over people who have legitimate reasons to look forward to the game. Or deem them as the problem as some "defense squad" with no sense of class or respect, some even villifying them as the equivalent of some hive mind.

And that's not the game's fault if people choose to be horrible like that.

Okay so you clearly didn't read beyond that first paragraph. Let's not start this again, shall we. I already said I'm sorry? The director of the game said it, not me. I'm only bringing back my point, which was always this from the start:

1 hour ago, Jango said:

Sonic Team's vision that is all messed up. It's pretty clear that their line of thinking is pretty supercial. A game aimed at kids doesn't need to be easy and automated, nor have over the top edgy villains.

It is the game's and the devs' fault the fanbase is so unpleased, dude.

@Whatever the WhoCares This is not cynicism , nor pessimism, FFS, how many more proof do you need to understand why people are tired of nostalgia pandering the wrong way? The way Sonic Team is being doing it for YEARS. We're being realistic.

[Razule]

24 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Yeah it was interesting to see the really good game which was really well made and really well designed get a really good reception.

Oh was it 2D? Well let me just throw out all those points.

Ah, but it was very easy! That's why people liked it. The sole reason.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

29 minutes ago, Wisphead said:

And now they're saying Classic Sonic will be back AGAIN in a 3D game? 

Where in this article did Nakamura say this?

[Polkadi~☆]

1 hour ago, Jango said:

I'm not even gonna say anything. Remember when I asked another member's age couple of weeks ago? And a bunch of you thought I was just seamlessly judging or disrespecting that person's opinion. Well, no, I was not.

A target demographic means an audience you are aiming for, not an audience that is the only one who can play the game.

Meaning, literally anyone can play the game, it doesn't even matter. They just want kids to play it more.

[Jango]

1 minute ago, Polkadi said:

A target demographic means an audience you are aiming for, not an audience that is the only one who can play the game.

Meaning, literally anyone can play the game, it doesn't even matter. They just want kids to play it more.

But Sonic Team gotta remember they're not Pixar.

[Dr. Detective]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

 

• He's not surprised by Mania's success because he knows "people like 2D games because they're easy to get in to".
• It was interesting to see Mania get the reception it got.

I still haven't played Mania but I keep hearing from a lot of people that the reason they liked it was just because it was a good game. The only ones I've heard say it was because it was 2D were some idiots on Youtube who do reaction videos and haven't played a Sonic game in decades and think that what perspective the game is programmed in determines its overall quality no matter what.

Yeah, of course. It's because it's in 2D that it was good. Right.

Classic Sonic, get your ass in gear. Forces may have been in development years before Mania but you're gonna get a right proper work out now. Sonic Forces us to make our 3D games 2D.

I have a personal issue with the whole "2D games are easy to get into" nonsense since I can't play even play Mega Collection without pausing and saving after every check-point because I'm afraid of being kicked back to the first level. 

 

[Scar]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

"From the team's perspective, we're still going to be making 3D games for the audience that likes that style of Sonic - when we see the reactions that Mania got, the entire team sat down and thought it was really interesting, and we should break down what people liked about Mania, and in the future - when we build our 3D games - see what essence we can take from Sonic Mania and put into a 3D world, to give people what they're looking for and that they've found in Sonic Mania."

Hope they fucking mean that. I really do, cause its what I want them to do.

Also, them wanting to bring the fanbase together is a nice sentiment. Doing it in exactly the wrong way, but a nice thought.

[DoubleXXCross]

Are we really all acting surprised that Nakamura doesn't know how to make a Sonic game?

Because there's kind of a reason the only other time he worked on this franchise was over ten years ago.