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Sonic Forces demo- Green Hill (Modern Sonic gameplay)


HedgehogBR

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You know, the more you guys mock the "wait and see" people, the more annoying you'll be just as them.

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I'm not looking forward to this game but that doesn't mean I want it to bomb.

Hell I'm more concerned about the future of 3D Sonic regardless how well the game actually does.

 

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12 minutes ago, Swing said:

But gameplay? That is probably one of the least important things for most fans.   

Aw, that's too bad.

But it must've had some worth, no amount of good presentation would allow for below average game-play.

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2 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I'm not looking forward to this game but that doesn't mean I want it to bomb.

Hell I'm more concerned about the future of 3D Sonic regardless how well the game actually does.

 

We all are, which is exactly why we're giving the game so much shit for failing to be better then what it actually is. Do you really think any of us wanted this game to suck and be here talking about how much it sucks and keeps getting worse the more gameplay gets revealed of it?

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19 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

 

I'm just laughing at this point

Well the difference is that I didn't say he must not do it, I'm suggesting that maybe, just maybe, there are other things that do what he's looking for a lot better.

Things that are supposed to be what he's looking for in the first place.

Mm, I'm actually not one of those people who only like one or two video game series, so I've already played lots of games that are story driven (Kingdom Hearts, Uncharted, etc.). I was the opposite at first though, SA1 was my first Sonic game and I hated any game that wasn't as fast paced as it. I was 3 years old though, so that's probably why.

Sorry if I seemed annoyed when I replied to your initial quote BTW.

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1 minute ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

Mm, I'm actually not one of those people who only like one or two video game series, so I've already played lots of games that are story driven (Kingdom Hearts, Uncharted, etc.). I was the opposite at first though, SA1 was my first Sonic game and I hated any game that wasn't as fast paced as it. I was 3 years old though, so that's probably why.

Sorry if I seemed annoyed when I replied to your initial quote BTW.

No man, it's all cool, you didn't sound rude at all. I hope I didn't come off as rude aswell. 

I understand where you're coming from, I like story driven games too, and I like a good plot in Sonic games, don't get me wrong.

But the plot itself can't be the main point of a Sonic game either.

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10 minutes ago, ScaryCrystalSkull said:

Plus, as fans, we should hope for the best for the series, and if there is something or anything we don't like, we should give constructive feedback to Sega and hope they listen, not want a game to fail. That is very unfanlike, and more selfish if you ask me. Plus, the people on SSMB here are just a minority, anyway.

 

There's nothing "unfanlike" about wanting a game that looks shit to fail so that maybe Sonic Team can learn from their mistakes (lol) and make a better game in the future. 

 

Quote

People here shouldn't be a bad sport and ruin the game for them just because the dislikers don't like it.

I don't understand how someone else's opinion of the game could possibly ruin it for you. Whether someone else thinks the game is garbage shouldn't impact how much you enjoy it. 

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I'm a metal gear fan, but that doesn't mean I want shit like metal gear survive to be successful cause I mean...it's lazy shit. Point is, being a fan doesn't mean you have to bljndly support and hope the best for everything released, especially if it's going in a direction you don't like at all

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Look Sonic Forces I understand what you're trying to do, you're trying to demonstrate a narrative through spectacle. a noble cause to entice the "action-y" feel of the stages, I perfectly understand what you're trying to do. The camera pans in the background to show you what's happening to Green Hill, Camera pans to the set pieces that show WHY this is happing it's been very evident with both the OC and Modern Sonic. But why in the FUCK is it so disjointed from the gameplay?

I really hate repeatng myself, but once again,

Gameplay & Spectacle are not met with cohesian (the latter overpowering the former)

Want examples? Let's look at the DKCR games both with a simple narrative, but understand how to balance this:

Spoiler

Foggy fumes consist of a level that's, covered in a Fog the precedding stage,

Consists of explorering the now fog ridden factory.

It's a simple transition that works because it escalates from there.

Now TF

Frantic fields is a level that consists of windy hazzards the impede the player, the preceeding level?

Scorch n' Torch is a result of those porcupines igniting the fields due to the wind blowing them around

 

The point of that is to illustrate that the transitions achieved do not scarfice, rather purpose new mechanics and gimmicks that don't overpower eachother. Want more examples from your own series?

Angel Island Zone

Spoiler

Mania's Oil Ocean

Carnival Night

Launch base

Every... Single... Zone in Sonic 3 (And Mania) does this, they ecalate mechanics given and provide the spectacle without dumbing down the level design.

Now it may seem unfair to compare this mostly to 2D games, but that's not really the point i'm trying to address here.

The point is to show you can do all off that without making everything, "Babbies First Boost Level".

Now I don't whom or what is in charge of designing the philosophies of these levels but whatever the case may be it needs to be revaluated, rethinked, reinforced, refined, retooled, relearned, redesigned, etc. In another major title.

Why is this such a stark contrast to generations I don't know

I Just don't know...

 

 

Edited by Shiguy
Godammit Forces. *sighhhhhhhhhhh*
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1 minute ago, Feanor said:

There's nothing "unfanlike" about wanting a game that looks shit to fail so that maybe Sonic Team can learn from their mistakes (lol) and make a better game in the future. 

 

I don't understand how someone else's opinion of the game could possibly ruin it for you. Whether someone else thinks the game is garbage shouldn't impact how much you enjoy it. 

First off, allow me to disagree, because a good fan would want what's best for the series, and wanting a game to fail is not wanting for the best, but rather selfishness. Plus, what do you have to say about the people who LIKE this game?

Second, it doesn't actually bother me. Just saying something I felt needed to be said.

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1 minute ago, Shiguy said:

Look Sonic Forces I understand what you're trying to do, you're trying to demonstrate a narrative through spectacle. a noble cause to entice the "action-y" feel of the stages, I perfectly understand what you're trying to do. The camera pans in the background to show you what's happening to Green Hill, Camera pans to the set pieces that show WHY this is happing it's been very evident with both the OC and Modern Sonic. But why in the FUCK is it so disjointed from the gameplay?

I really hate repating myself, but once again,

Gameplay & Spectacle are not met with cohesian (the latter overpowering the former)

Want examples? Let's look at the DKCR games both with a simple narrative, but understand how to balance this:

  Hide contents

Foggy fumes consist of the level that's, covered in a Fog the precedding stage,

Consists of explorering the now fog ridden factory.

It's a simple transition that works because it escalates from there.

Now TF

Frantic fields is a level that consists of windy hazzards the impede the preceeding level?

Scorch n' Torch is a result of those porcupines igniting the fields due to the wind blowing them around

 

The point of that is to illustrate that the transitions achieved do not scarfice, rather purpose new mechanics and gimmicks that don't overpower eachother. Want more examples from your own series?

Angel Island Zone

  Hide contents

Mania's Oil Ocean

Carnival Night

Launch base

Every... Single... Zone in Sonic 3 (And Mania) does this, they ecalates mechanics given and provide the spectacle with out dumbing down the level design.

Now it may seem unfair to compare this mostly to 2D games, but that's not really the point i'm trying to address here.

The point is to show you can do all off that without making everything, "Babbies First Boost Level".

Now I don't whom or what is in charge of designing the philosophies of these levels but whatever the case may be it needs to be revaluated, rethinked, reinforced, refined, retooled, relearned, redesigned, etc. In another major title.

Why is this such a stark contrast to generations I don't knoe

I Just don't know...

 

 

I completely agree with you, and those examples you posted are spot on. Nice post.

 

1 minute ago, ScaryCrystalSkull said:

First off, allow me to disagree, because a good fan would want what's best for the series, and wanting a game to fail is not wanting for the best, but rather selfishness. Plus, what do you have to say about the people who LIKE this game?

Second, it doesn't actually bother me. Just saying something I felt needed to be said.

Yes, I want what's best for the series and Forces isn't.

Just watch it crash and burn in two weeks, mark my words.

This is gonna be an epic disaster.

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13 minutes ago, Creep Dude said:

You know, the more you guys mock the "wait and see" people, the more annoying you'll be just as them.

"How dare you tell us to wait and see! It sucks!"

>Proceeds to wait and see the next trailer/demo/cutscene/whatever so the same complaints can once again be said and once again criticise people saying wait and see.

With that said, I'm not sure if I want to take this demo as 100% fact. It's godawful, and if this actually is the level design in-game, that'll blow hard. But with the idiotic timer placed onto the level, I really can't take this as fact. Mainly because it shows SEGA isn't above fully altering a level just for a fucking demo as idiotic as it is.

If the level was so short that it could be done in one minute and that's why the red star rings are so out in the open, it doesn't make sense to have the timer at all if it could be completed that easily. Along with the missing chunks thing, and the red star thing, it indicates to me that there's a possibility they went and altered the red star placement/hazard placement in order to try speed the demo up. It's a  completely idiotic move but I couldn't put it past SEGA at this point. If the level really was that short, it wouldn't make sense to place in a minute timer. It contradicts itself big-time. 

Other random things:

-The layout of Modern GHZ looks ripped from the Gens version, but flipped. At least at the beginning of the stage. It starts out at a long straight path, turns a certain direction, and then launches Sonic into the air to the next section. The difference is Sonic gets launched to another straight line here, as opposed to robots/platforms.

-Avatar's gameplay is really beginning to turn me off. The delays when using Cube/Lightning Whip is beginning to remind me heavily of that shitty cooldown time Sonic's Homing Attack had in 06 and that's frustrating as fuck to me. 

-Space Port actually looks like a really cool change to Chemical Plant. 

-Classic....is Classic. Not much to say. I'm just thankful the Egg Dragoon is part of the fight because the fucking sawblade/Wrecking Ball thing for the hundredth time is officially not fun anymore SEGA.

-I'm slightly disappointed they didn't include the tag-team stage, but then again it'd probably be butchered to fuck because of the shitty timer system.

TL;DR: The timer system is awful, never again SEGA, get fucking rid of it when/if this releases worldwide/ on PS4/Xbox One

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22 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Actually for SEGA, too much work would be having the game be actual 3D and not fall back on the not so subtle Classic pandering. Also the fans who want more story out of the games are no lesser Sonic fans than those who only care about the gameplay.

I don't think anyone is a lesser fan for preferring different things than I do. Certainly not. You have every right to like what you do and ask for more.

I'm simply pointing out that there are consequences to advertising two to three very different spirited directions for a franchise and brand as strong as this one. Of course there is, because now when Sonic Team develops Sonic games, they have two to three different competing ideas of what Sonic is. This is why the games have been all over the place in design terms and its not been a good thing. Especially since Sonic games have not ever done well when they don't focus on his unique gameplay and design, which is why Sonic ever became popular in the first place.

And by the way, the reason why there exists "Classic pandering" is because those games have always been received very positively by most of the gaming community and were very successful in sales. Its why we call them Classics in the first place. No one applies the classic label to Sonic's Modern games, cause they ain't really been too good in overall quality and have progressively declined in sales over time. 

Even Sonic 4, a 2D game, has been criticized heavily in comparison to the 90s era primarily because the designers are not the same people and it shows. That game was mediocre like the rest of Modern Sonic's history largely is.

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6 minutes ago, ScaryCrystalSkull said:

Plus, what do you have to say about the people who LIKE this game?

"Congrats you like It, just don't try to tell me it's a good game."

 

Actually no. Try to tell me. I want to see someone analyse this game, everything shown so far and explain why it's a good game.

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First off, it may not be good for you, but it can be good for others. Plus, I think it is wanting a series to go down a path YOU guys want it go that you are wishing for. Doing what you want for a series, which may not even be necessary and is all preference based, and Forces is different from your preferences or what you want, it doesn't mean it is necessarily bad. You are basically wanting the game just because it isn't HOW you want it to be, and how you want it to be is what you THINK is better, even though it is something you can live without. That said, just because you don't like what you see doesn't excuse you from wanting a game like this to bomb. Sure, the game could have been better, but it is something we can live with, and it is not the worst thing in the world. So therefore, wanting this game to bomb, when there are those on other sites who like what they see, still is pretty selfish.


EDIT: Plus, Sonic's reputation is already bad enough as it is, so we don't need another bombing game at the expense of Sonic being more laughable.

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Oh, I just realized, Sonic can quick step in this... I'm pretty sure I hit the quick step button in the E3 demo and nothing happened. It's possible I just didn't notice though since it doesn't make a noise and I didn't have to quick step during the stage. Still can't drift though, which is too bad.

Also, I really like GHZ Modern's music. Still very synth-y but it's really catchy.

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3 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Its why we call them Classics in the first place. No one applies the classic label to Sonic's Modern games, cause they ain't really been too good in overall quality and have progressively declined in sales over time. 

I think the reason people don’t call Modern “classic” has more to do with him having green eyes, and less to do with some underlying, overarching assumption about the quality of every game released from 1998 to 2011, and almost every game after that.

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Just now, Kellan said:

I think the reason people don’t call Modern “classic” has more to do with him having green eyes, and less to do with some underlying, overarching assumption about the quality of every game released from 1998 to 2011, and almost every game after that.

Are you even serious right now?

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1 minute ago, Kellan said:

I think the reason people don’t call Modern “classic” has more to do with him having green eyes, and less to do with some underlying, overarching assumption about the quality of every game released from 1998 to 2011, and almost every game after that.

...you are kidding right?

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8 minutes ago, ScaryCrystalSkull said:

First off, it may not be good for you, but it can be good for others. Plus, I think it is wanting a series to go down a path YOU guys want it go that you are wishing for. Doing what you want for a series, which may not even be necessary and is all preference based, and Forces is different from your preferences or what you want, it doesn't mean it is necessarily bad. You are basically wanting the game just because it isn't HOW you want it to be, and how you want it to be is what you THINK is better, even though it is something you can live without. That said, just because you don't like what you see doesn't excuse you from wanting a game like this to bomb. Sure, the game could have been better, but it is something we can live with, and it is not the worst thing in the world. So therefore, wanting this game to bomb, when there are those on other sites who like what they see, still is pretty selfish.

...what? This isn't hard to get. If someone doesn't like the direction of something, it's natural to hope it doesn't do well and continue going in a stagnating direction. Ex: if you're a aliens fan, are you not a "good fan" for wanting that piece of shit Coloniel Marines to fail? Or if you're a Sonic fan, for wanting 06 to bomb and embarrass sega? Are you a bad fan? If anything it shows your love for the series that you're not licking up everything and expressing these views 

 

Your posts reeks of hypocrisy and elitism if I'm perfectly honest 

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5 minutes ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

Oh, I just realized, Sonic can quick step in this... I'm pretty sure I hit the quick step button in the E3 demo and nothing happened. It's possible I just didn't notice though since it doesn't make a noise and I didn't have to quick step during the stage. Still can't drift though, which is too bad.

It was definitely there at EGX.

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