Sonic Forces demo- Green Hill (Modern Sonic gameplay)

[Nicky Nicardo]

Does anyone know the actual file size for Sonic Forces on Xbox One?

And also, are there any known websites that list the file sizes of the other console Sonic games, like Colors, Lost World, and Generations?

[Straw Hat]

9 hours ago, GuyWithThePie said:

By four years, they probably mean over three years in development hell, and less than a year rushing to complete whatever they already had at that point. I refuse to believe otherwise.

With Nakamura being so heavily involved, I wouldn't doubt it.

[Indigo Rush]

This is not okay.

[Blue Blood]

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

This is not okay.

"But Colours was a good game and everybody loved it before so why is it suddenly bad?"

[Gabz Girl]

Wait, is that Sonic Colours on the right hand side? What, I...whattiifjkdcbn

It’s a coincidence! Has to be! =D;; I mean omfg how uninspired can they be? Very from the looks of it. 

 

[Razule]

8 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

This is not okay.

Well that's uninspired..

[DiamondX]

13 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

This is not okay.

It's a reused section from another game, but that's it... It's not like others games don't do this.

[Indigo Rush]

4 minutes ago, Limit Breaker Diamond said:

It's a reused section from another game, but that's it... It's not like others games don't do this.

Keep digging.

[Blue Blood]

1 minute ago, Limit Breaker Diamond said:

It's a reused section from another game, but that's it... It's not like others games don't do this.

It's not actually reused - it's an entirely new section that plays itself almost identically to something that is now seven years old. It's pretty poor design. And reusing parts of older games in that sense would be lazy. Before Mania is brought up, all of the levels in that game that recycled old areas were done so intentionally for a number of reasons, and the level design was far more intricate and well-designed than anything in Forces. Plus it's went to great lengths to incorporate new level design and ideas at every point.

Also, what other games do this? I can't think of any examples, unless you want to intentionally dodge the point.

[Shadowlax]

29 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Keep digging.

Its not really digging

A bunch of games do actually do that. This is the first thing i've seen where i'm actually going to wait and reserve judgement.

[Salamander]

18 hours ago, CheatsterX said:

I'd say it goes Modern GHZ, then they go to the city and meet the Avatar. Tails parts ways with Modern to do Classic GHZ and the Boss. Tag Team GHZ happens, and they potentially meet Infinite, who beats Sonic and kidnaps him, the fight destroys the pyramid. Avatar GHZ happens as the resistance chase infinite to Space Port.

Infinite capturing Sonic in the pyramid would clear up a lot of things.  We still don't really know the context for all the stuff around Casino Forest, by which point Modern is back on the planet and takes on Infinite alongside Silver, but if he's rescued from the Death Egg by mid-game then there's still room for that.  I'd actually had a bash at reconstructing the plot yesterday and gave up because there were so many contradictions around when Sonic could be captured, but this frees things up enough that I want to have another go.

Here's how I'm putting it together right now; confirmed levels in bold, suspected levels in italics:

Sonic has been off adventuring for a while when Eggman invades and attacks the city area, and Tails puts through a call to Sonic to bring him back.  That leads us into Green Hill Modern, where Eggman's army is approaching the city and his desertification of Green Hill has already begun, with numerous Death Egg Robots lying destroyed by the local Resistance.  Park Avenue Avatar happens at around the same time, where there's fierce fighting in the city, civilians are being evacuated, and the Resistance has only just discovered that Death Egg Robots are being mass-produced.  Modern arrives in the city and rescues Tails and a bunch of civilians from Egg Pawns.  Sunset Heights Modern follows as he's tasked with tracking down Shadow.  We then get the big showdown with Eggman, Infinite, and the villain gang where Infinite trounces Sonic, but for whatever reason, Sonic isn't captured there; maybe the Resistance shows up, maybe it's just the Avatar, but for whatever reason, the villains depart and Infinite conjures up a giant Metal Sonic to fight Modern and Avatar.  That gives us the Tag Team Boss set on the bridge leading out of the city and into the hills, which may also incorporate the Tag Team Death Egg Robot fight seen in the Japanese overview trailer, which also takes place  on the hilly outskirts of the city in the vicinity of the bridge.

Classic Sonic shows up fresh from Mania and we get Green Hill Classic; Tails has gone there to check out energy readings or something and he meets up with Classic and they fight Eggman in the Green Hill Classic Boss, in which Tails notably isn't too bothered by the situation (so Modern probably hasn't been kidnapped yet).  (Note that the overview trailer was edited to make it appear as if Tails first meets Classic in the city, but we don't see Tails speak his dialogue in that bit of the trailer so it could be a conflation.)  Modern and Avatar are pursuing the enemy forces out of the city and back into Green Hill, where we then get our first true Tag Team level, Tag Team Green Hill, where they're tasked with breaking into the pyramid.  Inside the pyramid, things go south and Infinite captures Modern and imprisons him on the Death Egg, so we then get Green Hill Avatar as the Resistance and Avatar leave the area to go and find a shuttle, which they do in Space Port Avatar.  Classic and Tails maybe then do Ghost Town Classic while all this is going on?  Aboard the Death Egg, Sonic escapes on his own so there's probably a Death Egg Modern, the Avatar arrives and does Death Egg Avatar, we get the scene where Modern rescues Avatar from more Egg Pawns, and then presumably there's a Death Egg Tag Team and likely a boss.

From there they end up back on terra firma, and at some point we have Casino Forest (only not called that) Modern ending with Modern and Silver faing off with Infinite, Casino Forest Classic is Classic and Tails following them through there, Avatar is maybe doing that white HQ area where there's an Avatar Boss versus Infinite?  And then maybe Avatar Aqua Road in the Casino Forest area.  End of the game might be in the grey arena-like area with the Egg Fleet filling the cloudy sky where Modern confronts Infinite in the Japanese overview trailer?  And from there on we're out of data.

...The game's plot is like a massive jigsaw with half the pieces missing, though, so much of this could be completely wrong.  The fact that the characters are clearly zig-zagging between zones, which is probably why all the levels appear to have unique names, makes it even harder to put things together.

Edit: It appears that I was way off, but on the other hand it sounds like my version might still make more sense, so...

[CleverSonicUsername]

Since the sentiment of "other games did it so basically it's fine" has been brought up twice now (the other time being to excuse shitty tutorial levels) I want to say this: Just because other games did something bad or Sonic Team is engaging in an uninspired and habitual practice doesn't mean they should be given a free pass to keep doing it. Their staunch unwillingness or inability to recognize what people like and dislike about their games is part of why they've struggled for almost two decades to get Sonic working in 3D consistently.

This doesn't just apply to Forces. I think reusing chunks of levels in Mania was gross too, and honestly I think three rails and that configuration of rings is actually less egregious than some of what was in Mania. I still want the practice to find a nice cozy ditch to die in, though.

[Tarnish]

20 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

This doesn't just apply to Forces. I think reusing chunks of levels in Mania was gross too, and honestly I think three rails and that configuration of rings is actually less egregious than some of what was in Mania. I still want the practice to find a nice cozy ditch to die in, though.

I would counter that by saying: replaying those level sections was at least still fun, simply because how well the controls were. Going on a conveyor belt (which what grinding in the boost games are) in a straight line wasn't even fun the first time around.

[Indigo Rush]

I mean, if that's the kind of argument it takes to justify more 3 lane hallway design; Mania reuses some level assets too; then more power to ya.

Spoiler

That's always what it comes down to. If anything Forces does gets rightly criticized, all you have to say is "but Mania" as if that's going to make a difference, as if that was even the focus.

Whatever.

 

[CleverSonicUsername]

8 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

I would counter that by saying: replaying those level sections was at least still fun, simply because how well the controls were. Going on a conveyor belt (which what grinding in the boost games are) in a straight line wasn't even fun the first time around.

To be perfectly honest, outside of Green Hill Act 1, which I think had some merit for what it was trying to communicate to the player, I found those reused sections to be cheap and lazy ways to pad the levels. Frankly I expect better in that regard from Taxman than I do from Sonic Team proper, but I don't find it acceptable in either.

[Tarnish]

4 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

To be perfectly honest, outside of Green Hill, which I think had some merit for what it was trying to communicate to the player, I found those reused sections to be cheap and lazy ways to pad the levels. Frankly I expect better in that regard from Taxman than I do from Sonic Team proper, but I don't find it acceptable in either.

The way I see this is: reusing memorable sections that brings even more (maybe a little too much) nostalgia into the mix versus reusing boring, unimaginative ideas.

If they are reusing something, they might as well reuse something good.

[CleverSonicUsername]

18 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

I mean, if that's the kind of argument it takes to justify more 3 lane hallway design; Mania reuses some level assets too; then more power to ya.

  Hide contents

That's always what it comes down to. If anything Forces does gets rightly criticized, all you have to say is "but Mania" as if that's going to make a difference, as if that was even the focus.

Whatever.

 

I mean that's the whole point I'm making. It's not "but Mania." It's "also Mania" and "it was always shitty."

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, Limit Breaker Diamond said:

It's a reused section from another game, but that's it... It's not like others games don't do this.

They use spring boards lined up against a hillside so you can get over it. Darn it Sega learn to not reuse those xD

[Wraith]

51 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

I mean, if that's the kind of argument it takes to justify more 3 lane hallway design; Mania reuses some level assets too; then more power to ya.

  Reveal hidden contents

That's always what it comes down to. If anything Forces does gets rightly criticized, all you have to say is "but Mania" as if that's going to make a difference, as if that was even the focus.

Whatever.

 

There's no justification going on. He was just pointing out that both games do it.

[Nakasu]

Not sure if this has been posted, but you can glitch through the timer.

 

 

[BlueFlare]

I think it's been posted here already. I'm too lazy to look up for it atm. They should just remove the tiem limit it's so dumb. Are they ashamed of showing their game?

[Straw Hat]

1 hour ago, BlueFlare said:

I think it's been posted here already. I'm too lazy to look up for it atm. They should just remove the tiem limit it's so dumb. Are they ashamed of showing their game?

They think they're slick, trying to make these Stages appear like there's more they have to offer. It's pretty fucking pathetic.

[PandaChao]

You know it's bad when Bubsy starts taking shots at Sonic The Hedgehog. 

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, PandaChao said:

You know it's bad when Bubsy starts taking shots at Sonic The Hedgehog. 

 

Lesser mascot platformers have always taken shots at Sonic. Mainly because they know Sega won't retaliate.

From a marketing standpoint, Sega won't acknowledge that kind of insult because it only legitimizes something like Bubzy or Ty the Tasmanian Tiger. Those franchises are shooting way over their heads at an attempt at relevancy. Its actually rather telling that the people behind Bubsy still think enough of the Sonic franchise to even bother. Sonic may be down, but his cultural icon status remains intact.

[PandaChao]

3 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Lesser mascot platformers have always taken shots at Sonic. Mainly because they know Sega won't retaliate.

From a marketing standpoint, Sega won't acknowledge that kind of insult because it only legitimizes something like Bubzy or Ty the Tasmanian Tiger. Those franchises are shooting way over their heads at an attempt at relevancy. Its actually rather telling that the people behind Bubsy still think enough of the Sonic franchise to even bother. Sonic may be down, but his cultural icon status remains intact.

Sonic Twitter acknowledged the jab. I thought it was pretty funny though because it reminds me of the old rivalries during the 90s.