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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread


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Just now, Night on Balding Mountain said:

Man 2017's been a rough time for Major japanese developer games having the word Infinite associated with them.

The two games with infinite in the title are cobbled together asset reuses with not a lot of budget,

At least MVCI actually plays well

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1 hour ago, KHCast said:

Sonic boom clothes, lyric boss, avatar is for some reason taller than sonic, enderbbeam, etc

Okay, when you put all that together, it does kinda seem like that.

Thought the boss resembling Lyric almost seems like a coincidence.

 

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Sonic forces. Without the illusion, it's the story of some guy and his two nephews out to prove a scientist wrong about how close the sun is to the planet.

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4 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Looks like the rumour was true. Tails did die. His character has been ill since Unleashed and now he has achieved complete character assassination. Tails is dead after all.

*there was a weird instance during Sonic Colors however, where his character miraculously restored to life and he actually had a lot of fun interactions with Sonic

*he had some good parts in Lost World also

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45 minutes ago, Razule said:

1. They really happened but a lot of the weirder parts were probably illusions. It seems a Phantom Ruby prototype just managed to end up in Classic Sonic's world. 

2. It seems that he created the Phantom Ruby prototypes. 

3. *shrug*

4. *shrug*

5. Fanservice.. except for Zavok, who is filling an empty space.

Well, that's a start. :/

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4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

The two games with infinite in the title are cobbled together asset reuses with not a lot of budget,

At least MVCI actually plays well

Yes it plays just fine, but because of all the other limits and Marvel studio bs that surrounds it, it's not do so hot in the sales.

2 minutes ago, Nix said:

*there was a weird instance during Sonic Colors however, where his character miraculously restored to life and he actually had a lot of fun interactions with Sonic

*he had some good parts in Lost World also

Yeah his interactions in Colors with Sonic were great, as was his reaction to getting captured by the deadly 6, and freeing himself too. For as bad as some spots were there was at least something redeemable in that story. Not so here.

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1 minute ago, Nix said:

*there was a weird instance during Sonic Colors however, where his character miraculously restored to life and he actually had a lot of fun interactions with Sonic

*he had some good parts in Lost World also

I thought it was when Eggman mind controlled Tails and suddenly he was super fast again when protecting Eggman. Then when it wore off Tails was back to be slow and useless.

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Didn't see Ian Flynn in the credits, so unless script doctoring is a super secret job, probably safe to say his involvement begins and ends with the prequel comics. It's.. something.

How about he write the games..?

 

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Now that Forces' credits are out in the wild, I updated my list of directors and designers who have worked on Sonic games over the past decade (Sonic Team directors/designers who have worked on three or more games are italicized.):

Sonic 2006:

Director/Game Story/Game Title: Shun Nakamura

Chief Game Designers: Shun NakamuraAtsushi Kanno

Game Designers: Hiroshi MiyamotoTakao Hirabayashi, Masayuki Inoue, Takako Nagase, Makoto Hirata, Daisuke Shimizu

Secret Rings:

Producer/Director: Yojiro Ogawa

Lead Game Designer: Morio Kishimoto

Game Designers: Yojiro OgawaShiro Maekawa, Emiko Sunaga, Harumasa Nakajima, Jyunpei Ootsu, Takayuki OkadaEitaro Toyoda

Unleashed:

Director/Lead Game Designer: Yoshihisa Hashimoto

Day Time Level Designers: Masayuki Inoue, Yoshinobu Uba, Takayuki Okada

Night Time Level Designers: Takao Hirabayashi, Natsuha Matsubara, Hideo Ohtsika

Lead Planner: Takao Hirabayashi

Boss Game Designer: Eitaro Toyoda

Combat System Designer: Takao Hirabayashi

Black Knight:

Producer/Director - Tetsu Katano

Lead Game Designer - Morio Kishimoto

Game Designers - Harumasa Nakajima, Shintaro Kai, Takahiro Ono, Midori Iwabuchi, Kanano Yamaguchi

Colors:

Director and Lead Game Designer - Morio Kishimoto

Lead Planner - Harumasa Nakajima

Planners - Shintaro Kai, Takeshi Yamazaki, Jyunpei Ootsu, Mitsuru Osakada, Kiyoteru Mizuhara

Lead Level Designer - Takayuki Okada

Level Designers - Natsuha Matsubara, Takahiro Ono, Katsuyuki Shigihara, Kanano Yamaguchi, Midori Iwabachi

Generations:

Director - Hiroshi Miyamoto

Lead Game Designer - Yoshinobu Uba

Game Designers - Daisuke Shimizu, Katsuyuki Shigihara, Utako Yoshino, Takamasa Usui, Takayuki Okada, Kanano Yamaguchi, Haruhiko Kashiwazaki

Lost World:

Director - Morio Kishimoto

Level Designers - Natsuha Matsubara, Takayuki Okada, Kanano Yamaguchi, Rei Hata, Yuma Matsunaga, Jyunpei Ootsu, Takahiro Ono

Forces:

Director and Lead Game Designer - Morio Kishimoto

Lead Planner - Takayuki Okada

Planners - Atsushi Kusama, Takeshi Endo, Masashi Kanda

Lead Level Designer - Jyunpei Ootsu

Level Designers - Shoko Kamiya, Yuya Setogawa

---

Seems this time around, Forces' group of designers is mostly new staff (planners and level designers), under the direction of a few key Kishimoto staffers (director, lead game designer, lead planner, lead level designer).

Also, here's a complete level list for Forces:

Stage 1: Green Hill - Lost Valley (Modern)
Stage 2: Chemical Plant - Space Port (Avatar)
Stage 3: City - Ghost Town (Classic)
Stage 4: Death Egg - Prison Hall (Avatar)
Stage 5: Death Egg - VS. Zavok (Modern)
Stage 6: Death Egg - Egg Gate (Modern)
Stage 7: Green Hill - Arsenal Pyramid (Tag Team)
Stage 8: Mystic Jungle - Luminous Forest (Modern)
Stage 9: Mystic Jungle - VS. Infinite (Modern)
Stage 10: Green Hill - Green Hill (Classic)
Stage 11: Green Hill - VS. Eggman (Classic)
Stage 12: City - Park Avenue (Avatar)
Stage 13: Mystic Jungle - Casino Forest (Classic)
Stage 14: Mystic Jungle - Aqua Road (Avatar)
Stage 15: City - Sunset Heights (Modern)
Stage 16: Metropolis - Capital City (Avatar)
Stage 17: Metropolis - VS. Infinite (Avatar)
Stage 18: Chemical Plant - Chemical Plant (Classic)
Stage 19: City - Red Gate Bridge (Tag Team) (VS. Metal Sonic)
Stage 20: Green Hill - Guardian Rock (Avatar)
Stage 21: Chemical Plant (Modern)
Stage 22: Death Egg (Classic)
Stage 23: Metropolis (Modern)
Stage 24: Metropolis (Tag)
Stage 25: Empire Fortress (Avatar)
Stage 26: Empire Fortress (Modern)
Stage 27: Vs. Infinite (Tag)
Stage 28: Empire Fortress (Classic)
Stage 29: Empire Fortress (Tag)
Stage 30: Mega Death Egg Robot

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58 minutes ago, Yeow said:

This game is just a hot mess of competing undercooked gameplay styles, wasted ideas, and shallow fanservice; with no real attempt to meld it together into a coherent product. Very few elements feel inspired in their concept, and no elements feel well-realized in their execution. Even its best moments are themselves humdrum and unremarkable.

The gameplay is easily the worst thing about the whole product, which I honestly think is just plain bad all-around. Each playstyle feels absolutely phoned in, with no real evidence of polish or focus into making them compelling to play or --in the case of Classic and Boost-- even make them an authentic installment over prior games of their respective gameplay. The majority of the content here (level settings, game/level mechanics, enemies, etc.) feels like Sonic 4-styled levels of rehashing material, only three out of the entire game's seven zones can be said to have be original settings; none of the level settings feel like anything we haven't seen before or are improved on past levels either (especially so with the majority of them being manmade city/factory/base levels). The story really amounts to nothing substantial, many of the plot threads and characters feel like complete afterthoughts in terms of their relevance to their overarching narrative, and nobody outside of probably Sonic gets any compelling characterization or motive. Even the presentation is hit and miss--the environments look great, and some music tracks range from being passable to being really good; but they're counter-balanced by other visual elements of the game looking sloppy (namely some textures and models, especially in the cutscenes) and several musical tracks that are largely forgettable noise. This feels like a game made by a studio who are absolutely sick of Sonic as a series and wish they were working on another game entirely; and the results are reheated leftovers that were  left in the freezer for over a month.

Nothing about Forces screams "decent" or a 7/10 game in the slightest. Especially for a game that was supposedly in development for four years--compared to other games made under a similar timeframe like Mario Odyssey, Forces feels like a passive-aggressive joke. Unless "it's not as bad as Sonic 2006/Rise of Lyric" is the (super low) barometer we're using here as what constitutes as a "decent" 7/10 game here. Sorry, but not being a broken piece of trash and being "playable" shouldn't be a selling point, or be an acceptable standard for Sonic games, especially so after Mania. Forces IMO is a textbook definition of what constitutes a mediocre game, a game that teeters between a 5/10 and a 6/10 score.

I agree with most of what you said but do you really believe it'll average below 60-70%? 

With this game not being a technical mess and the graphics looking nice in spots, I'm having a hard time seeing it averaging below 60% or above 70%. The game is so bland and inoffensive technically that it seems destined for reactions of that exact nature.

"Eh, its fine I guess. Silly kids game."

50-60% is a bit worse than mediocre. Especially after Mania which averaged 86%, Sonic Team would not hold their heads high with a game getting an average of 55% among critics. That's firmly in the 'bad' showing category.

 

Yeeesh. I'm momentarily lost in my feelings about how this game will be received. From what I've seen it is the most vanilla Modern Sonic game all-around in terms of gameplay, level design, and surprisingly even the "story". There's not a ton of ammunition for critics here in either negative or positive direction. 

I think Modern Sonic's name should be changed to "Focus-Group Sonic" because that's what this project is. This is not the game that will restore the Sonic brand globally. Its probably not going to do much of anything at all but be soon forgotten. 

 

 

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So everyone who said Pontaff was involved  was in the end correct. That’s why both need to go. And Nakamura too. 

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1 hour ago, dbzfan7 said:

Oh please don't tell me it's another "It was a trick, Sonic is always the bestest" kinda crap. It just makes Sonic struggle worse if he was always superior and just had to get passed a gimmick. But Sonic and Infinite confirm Sonic got better....somehow....while imprisoned...and Sonic says a Broly line...which totally won't be taken as something else...

What Broly line?

37 minutes ago, A Zombie KING and 35 other said:

Just watched the big damn battle cutscene with omega. I was kinda reminded of this59f50bbad82e0_download(27).thumb.jpg.6aefe7c506ded0e1a66f23986669b57d.jpg

Yeah, pretty much. Minus Blaze and the Light Bros, of course.

 

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1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

So everyone who said Pontaff was involved  was in the end correct. That’s why both need to go. And Nakamura too. 

Dude everyone must go. It should be a firesale, to finally restructure and re-dedicate to the Sonic IP in a seriously impassioned way. 

That's if they want Sonic to be a global brand again, anyway. 

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Just now, DabigRG said:

What Broly line?

Something about growing stronger every minute or something which Sonic said about himself. The way he said it made me think of Broly. The lines are different though, but amount to the same thing.

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7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Dude everyone must go. It should be a firesale, to finally restructure and re-dedicate to the Sonic IP in a seriously impassioned way. 

That's if they want Sonic to be a global brand again, anyway. 

I’m pretty sure there’s plenty more people responsible. A firestorm would work quite well, which i’m gravely surprised didn’t happen with Rise of Lyric or even as far back as Lost World.

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So it was Pontaff and not just Graff? Mmkay.

I actually thought their localisation of Nakamura’s script was well done. Some of the dialogue was really good and actually funny at times. Sonic and Infinite had some excellent interactions like this one;

Infinite: What would you like your epitaph to read? How about “Here lies the blue buffoon?”

Sonic: Why not “Here dozes the masked clown?” Might as well make it for the person who needs one right?

If only the rest of the dialogue was like this, not so empty and dull. If only there wasn’t so much lost potential with a story that really did HAVE potential.

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14 minutes ago, Night on Balding Mountain said:

Yes it plays just fine, but because of all the other limits and Marvel studio bs that surrounds it, it's not do so hot in the sales.

 

Oh yeah, while the people who carry fighting games tend to be hard core consumers, the people who fund are more casual players. And it looks like ass so, a lot of them didn't bother it ( along with its mechanics, while good allow for so much fuckery its casual poison ). And its roster, even if include 3 x men, is still super ass. 

I hope this doesn't mean the end of that game series, because I love it to death

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So, Metacritic predictions anyone? What range do you think the review score average will fall?

Remember that Lost World ended up with a 63% average. Forces is a lot more broken and unpolished than SLW was, so I'm leaning to it scoring in the 50s or low 60s overall.

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I mean it's not like me and other 10 guys have been saying that the game looks like shit for months, giving actual reasoning to our arguments, while all the defenses were just smokes and mirrors.

I wonder if I'm just a dumb hater or someone who's capable of looking at something with a critical eye

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1 minute ago, Sonikko said:

I mean it's not like me and other 10 guys have been saying that the game looks like shit for months, giving actual reasoning to our arguments, while all the defenses were just smokes and mirrors.

I wonder if I'm just a dumb hater or someone who's capable of looking at something with a critical eye

A dumb hater. You have to lick Sonic's taint and be holier than thou until the game comes out....then disappear into the background if the reception doesn't match the good things said....ala what happened with Rise of Lyric note for note.

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21 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

 

 

Yeeesh. I'm momentarily lost in my feelings about how this game will be received. From what I've seen it is the most vanilla Modern Sonic game all-around in terms of gameplay, level design, and surprisingly even the "story". There's not a ton of ammunition for critics here in either negative or positive direction. 

I think Modern Sonic's name should be changed to "Focus-Group Sonic" because that's what this project is. This is not the game that will restore the Sonic brand globally. Its probably not going to do much of anything at all but be soon forgotten. 

The worst part is.. so many people just eat it up! Which I guess just goes to show. If it does well, I fear the message SEGA will get is that they don't need to try that hard in level design, gameplay mechanics, or physics, or even story, because they can just settle for making average kid's games.

Maybe some Mania on the side because those could potentially be made for $10, but they'll start thinking they can subsist on games like Forces forever! Just give it some call-backs, a "cool" story, fanservice characters, and some flashy effects and gimmicks and they're good! And the less critical parts of the fanbase will be there through thick and thin to defend all of their strange choices against the "haters" with BS arguments.

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4 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

So, Metacritic predictions anyone? What range do you think the review score average will fall?

Remember that Lost World ended up with a 63% average. Forces is a lot more broken and unpolished than SLW was, so I'm leaning to it scoring in the 50s or low 60s overall.

Not to mention that the story ended up appealing to nobody, and the hype of Mania. Lots of cliches the critics don’t like alongside ones we don’t like.

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