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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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Perhaps Sonic's torture was just being locked up in a small area with nothing interesting to see. Sonic hates having to be still in one place for too long. Boredom is probably more painful than actual pain to him. Though his cell didn't look that small. Personally if I was writing and I wanted to keep things child friendly while mentioning torture, I'd just have the cage he's in be A LOT smaller and cramped, have the lights off completely (except for infared/night vision cams so only Eggman can see him), and give Sonic absolutely nothing to look at or entertain himself with. So he's unable to move, see anything, or do anything. That I think is honestly torture for an adventurer like Sonic. Maybe not for someone else, but it puts together a bunch of things that would make Sonic lose his mind out of boredom XD.

Oh and his only entertainment we'll say is Eggman Productions movies, which shows him conquering the world and succeeding in goofy fashion that's still threatening, but an extreme over the top way to gloat. That way we get a competent but also goofy Eggman. Can be actual films or slideshows to make it easier and less time consuming to add to the game. Either way makes Eggman humorous. One of them has to be about outlawing chili dogs and taking down those restaurants.

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1 hour ago, Mark1 said:

+The music is pretty decent. As are the graphics.

+Storyline is better than I thought, but still not amazing. 

+Infinite is a decent new character. Eggman is a great villain. 

-Level design ranges from pretty average to terrible. Nothing substantial or exciting. Just boring. 

-Tails has been ruined by inconsistent characterisation again. 

-No Shadow or Chaos boss fight. 

Its going to be a mixed bag here and all across the fan base. Sonic Team need to take a break from the series and understand why Sonic is considered fun. 

Its not a bad game like Shadow the Hedgehog or ‘06. But it’s disappointingly not up to the more recent games like Colours or Generations.

That's actually a pretty decent summary - I still really want to play this (and enjoyed what I have done so far)... But actually on retrospect of videos in this leak this game seems tonally to go all out on those SA:2/B vibes, beats and feels - especially with the episodic scenarios. 

Watching this...

2 hours ago, DanisWhite said:

 

...I actually thought was really awesome. However it is also a bland empty nothingness of a level disguised by a ripping hot tune (if you like fist bump). The game is visually lovely... and there is better level design than this one in the game... but it seems like the game forces you through some of these stages as Sonic Team intended with little to no regards of the player playing it any other way. You could call it one giant QTE of a game that requires reaction based play.

I think you're probably on the mark from calling me out on something I said earlier actually Mayor D - they've created an interactive Sonic TV show here... rather than the reverse. At least Sonic Adventure 2 maintained a balance between corny OTT cheesy feels and high action arcade fun. 

I'm still reserving full judgement until I own this... because I think I'll still personally have a great time. But whilst it's certainly not the poorest game ever made (which is why I lament many overcritical reactions here)... it doesn't look like it'll be the best either. It's lost the creative design flourishes that i really liked of Sonic Lost World and the skill factor that defines and seperates players in Unleashed and Generations - you could put a comparison video up on youtube of regular to experienced players for forces and the gameplay would probably look pretty identical because of how this game has been designed to be played.  

But ho-hum. 

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2 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Perhaps Sonic's torture was just being locked up in a small area with nothing interesting to see. Sonic hates having to be still in one place for too long. Boredom is probably more painful than actual pain to him.

Then show that. Show us that that was happening, you know good writing. Show don't tell . 

Also again, infinite has a void kingdom hearts ass darkness power. 

Why didn't he just do that

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Just now, Shadowlax said:

Then show that. Show us that that was happening, you know good writing. Show don't tell . 

Also again, infinite has a void kingdom hearts ass darkness power. 

Why didn't he just do that

True I ain't defending the game at all. I'm just making up my own conclusions. Doesn't excuse anything, it's just trying to make sense of everything.

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The whole torturing thing was handled horribly and it seems like it was only added in because hey guys look! This Sonic game is really serious and dark again whoooo!  

When Knuckles mentioned it, his tone of voice hints it’s something very serious. Like Sonic is actually being tortured psychically or something. Yet when we see Sonic later on in his prison cell he’s still being snarky and happily joking around with Zavok, as if he’s just been chilling in his boring cell for half a year doing nothing. Tortured my ass! 

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24 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I'm not sure why, game-play can't always reflect the story properly...

But video games have been out for decades, decades and have plenty of examples of how not to do that. From things like mario, to things like like DMC and Dark souls with their masterclass example, ( virgil from DMC is one of the best boss fights to cut scene baddass examples in the history of the medium ) , there are plenty of ways to do this. And mario can still to this day, make bowser out to be a threatening looming force, and at the same time a lovable goof ball , sonic of all things can figure it out

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Alright, I think it's high time for me to answer the question of what in Mania was an illusion as well as what the Phantom Ruby is, and where Infinite goes (at least, my theory).

So, lets start with the Phantom Ruby first. The Phantom Ruby is not an invention of Eggman's. At least, the real one isn't. The one we see in Mania is in the game. As the one put into Infinite. But, why exactly is it smaller than what it should look like?

After Classic Sonic and Phantom Ruby are pulled into the Wormhole, the Phantom Ruby is the first one that shows up in the world, probably because its much smaller. Eggman uncovers it and does some tests on it. What he finds is that the Phantom Ruby can create illusions and transport objects across the world as well as dimension transportation in the appearance of the Null Void. Now, obviously this is a very powerful tool that can easily help Eggman finally win and take over the world. But, why have one? He's a scientist and we've seen fake Chaos Emeralds before. So, Eggman starts working on making fake Phantom Rubies with less power in their numbers but can help negate or power the real Ruby. Thus, he creates fake rubies and spreads them around the world in certain areas as well as testing them like with the Chaos fight in the comic. The problem in this though is that he needs to break the real Ruby apart and put a piece in it to power the fakes. After making enough, he goes on to his next plan: Make a catalyst for the remains of the Ruby. This is where Infinite comes from and what we see at the start of the game.

Next is the question of where Infinite went to after his last fight near the end of the game. As we know, he just flies away saying he can still fight.

https://i.gyazo.com/41ebff4d223636885c1e362ce373df43.mp4

What Infinite realizes is that his time is almost up as a living thing, but he can still fight Sonic and co in SOME form. And that form would be the Death Egg Robo. We can figure this out via 2 ways: 1) The area where Infinite flies too is a tower that seems to have either the power supply or the Death Egg Robo itself. and 2) This line from Eggman

9b81697b14f74e653f925b44471647b4.png

After Infinite goes into the Death Egg Robo, he now suddenly shows up as an Illusion for the Resistance. Sure he's shown up before as Illusions against Sonic or those lankey things in Metropolis, but to my knowledge, never as an Illusion against hundreds of creatures in its normal form. There's also the fact the Death Egg Robo comes near the same area Infinite flies towards. So, that would certainly back up my theory on Infinite being powered by the real Ruby.

So now, the last part of the theory. What is fake and what is real in Mania? The most obvious thing thats an illusion would be none other than the Hard Boiled Heavies. The MOMENT you and the Egg Robos are transported to Green Hill, the robos suddenly change form drastically. This would be easily explained by the HBH being illusion versions of the robos. Now for the stages, those are all real. We never see Infinite straight up change an area into something its not. We see warping the senses like turning Metropolis sideways or upside down for the players perspective, but we aren't transported to another area. Same for the fight in Mystic Jungle vs Sonic. But we do see twice that the Ruby can transport things to other dimensions, so we know it can at least transport people to other areas. Eggman is also clearly piloting actual mechs and is always involved in Mania. I highly doubt thats an illusion. The only other thing that might be an illusion is the Giant Catekiller Heavy Magician summons twice. But how could the Phantom Ruby transport itself and Classic to the Forces era? Easy. The Little Planet's power in turn made the Ruby's power stronger. We know the planet is highly powerful and Eggman has used it twice in both Sonic 4 and CD for power. That would explain the computer Classic Eggman is using near Little Planet. He figured a way to control the Ruby as well as power it. The Null Void also actually makes an appearance in Mania. As Egg Reverie.

tl;dr The Phantom Ruby is real, Mania's locations are real. The HBH are fake.

Oh and one more thing. About the Ruby being indestructible now: Eggman says its a good DEDUCTION. He doesn't actually say correct. So no, that was just Tails making a guess.

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On 10/27/2017 at 1:36 PM, StriCNYN3 said:

Definitely not liking how Tails is portrayed in the beginning there. He literally just stood there watch his friend's ass get beat and was as useless as the civilians. What happened to that Sonic Adventure development?

Critics happened.

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On 10/27/2017 at 2:30 PM, Gabz Girl said:

Yo I would've LOVED to have seen a montage of Dr Eggman laughing maniacally while destroying buildings (and innocent people?!) with his Bots and Infinite. It's edgy, but Sonic Forces is edgy already so it works! 

Now I'm sad. D:

Or at least the other characters actually fight against him. Seriously they should've just called this game Generations 2.

Just now, Eternal EX said:

Do you know what grinds my gears the most about this story? You have Knuckles and Shadow. Both Characters that can hold their own and beat eggy at any given moment. But the world goes to shit.

Any of the characters could have done something to stop Eggman. But nope, they can't do crap without Sonic. And that's pathetic.

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1 minute ago, knuckles20 said:

Or at least the other characters actually fight against him. Seriously they should've just called this game Generations 2.

To be fair, the other characters actually fight in the climax against the clones. 

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1 minute ago, RedFox99 said:

To be fair, the other characters actually fight in the climax against the clones. 

Well I'm just getting through the spoiler thread to see how things turn out and if TV Tropes is accurate, their involvement isn't that much better compared to Generations

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Just now, knuckles20 said:

Well I'm just getting through the spoiler thread and if TV Tropes is accurate, their involvement isn't that much better compared to Generations

I know what you mean about TV tropes. 

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2 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Or at least the other characters actually fight against him. Seriously they should've just called this game Generations 2.

Any of the characters could have done something to stop Eggman. But nope, they can't do crap without Sonic. And that's pathetic.

I Target Shadow the most because he's literally a clone of sonic (coming from a shadow fan) But let the world go to shit. And don't get me started on Bitch Tails. I would feel terrible and betrayed if I were a Tails fan right about now. And yes I know about 90% of the cast could have saved the world, but the fact they let the world fall, you have the guardian of the master emerald and King of Chaos Control just sit there like...oh well it's not our game so who cares. Then add Day 1 DLC for Shadow? These writers are shit.

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12 minutes ago, Eternal EX said:

I Target Shadow the most because he's literally a clone of sonic (coming from a shadow fan) But let the world go to shit. And don't get me started on Bitch Tails. I would feel terrible and betrayed if I were a Tails fan right about now. And yes I know about 90% of the cast could have saved the world, but the fact they let the world fall, you have the guardian of the master emerald and King of Chaos Control just sit there like...oh well it's not our game so who cares. Then add Day 1 DLC for Shadow? These writers are shit.

I have felt betrayed as a Tails fan since like 2008.

Though we'll see why in the DLC Shadow didn't save the world perhaps. Though to be fair Sonic lost to Infinite twice, so Shadow probably without understanding his powers would fall into the same boat. If Sonic lol stomped Infinite in every fight and Eggman took over the world, then I would be pissed as it makes the supporting cast feel like they can't do crap....which honestly....they mostly can't lately except for Shadow...Knuckles sometimes....Blaze but she knew better than to be in this game....and that's about it I think...

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I haven't watched through the entirety of this game's climax (got bored and started skimming through), but is there any reason why Infinite couldn't just make another sun appear after the previous one was gotten rid of? Did he have to recharge or something? Why not, I don't know, materialize a nuclear bomb right in the middle of the resistance? Eggman obviously has no issue with wiping them from existence.

Also why did Eggman capture Sonic and place him on the Death Egg? Why not just immediately stick him in one of Infinite's "null space" voids so that there's an even smaller chance of him escaping?

How did classic Sonic blow up the Death Egg?

Why does Infinite threaten Sonic with death the second time they meet (in the most pretentious way possible) but decides to leave Sonic alive anyway?

Why is Sonic's Green Hill filled with scrapped Death Egg Robos?

Why is City Zone constantly being attacked by Eggman? Didn't he conquer everything already?

Why does Eggman attack the Mystic Jungle? Didn't he conquer it already as well? Isn't that why there are casino elements all over the place?

Have Sonic and Eggman really been fighting for decades?

What the fuck is with the giant snake?

Do illusions created by Infinite share the same powers of what they're originally based on? Would another illusion-based Infinite share the same powers as Infinite himself? If this is the case, wouldn't it have been more efficient for Infinite to just split himself into several illusion-based clones instead of bringing back characters like Zavok who does nothing but ride around on a metal bumblebee anyway?

Is there even a point to Infinite being an actual self-conscious being? Wouldn't it have been just as effective to put the Phantom Ruby in a weapon, or even infuse Metal Sonic with it? Also Infinite's appearance doesn't really seem like Eggman's style, unless he was based on something Eggman drew when he was a freshman in high school.

Is Silver just going to stick around in the past now?

Where do the Wispons come from? Did Tails create them before he "lost it"? Are they mass produced?

Why is Tails such a creep towards classic Sonic?

Why does this game have such bad writing?

Spoiler

Why "True dat"?

 

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I made to page 25. My main concern since the reveal of Forces is how the other characters are used. So far it's a mix of Colors and Generations where the characters could do something but grown too dependent on Sonic to actually take action.

When the game officially releases I'll see some Let's play's on youtube hoping that I'm wrong. For now waiting for the IDW comics is gonna be torture.

54 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I have felt betrayed as a Tails fan since like 2008.

Though we'll see why in the DLC Shadow didn't save the world perhaps. Though to be fair Sonic lost to Infinite twice, so Shadow probably without understanding his powers would fall into the same boat. If Sonic lol stomped Infinite in every fight and Eggman took over the world, then I would be pissed as it makes the supporting cast feel like they can't do crap....which honestly....they mostly can't lately except for Shadow...Knuckles sometimes....Blaze but she knew better than to be in this game....and that's about it I think...

It's been like that since Colors. Why watch these various talented people do something while they can just stand around to talk to Sonic or whine how much they can't function without him.

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10 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I have felt betrayed as a Tails fan since like 2008.

Though we'll see why in the DLC Shadow didn't save the world perhaps. Though to be fair Sonic lost to Infinite twice, so Shadow probably without understanding his powers would fall into the same boat. If Sonic lol stomped Infinite in every fight and Eggman took over the world, then I would be pissed as it makes the supporting cast feel like they can't do crap....which honestly....they mostly can't lately except for Shadow...Knuckles sometimes....Blaze but she knew better than to be in this game....and that's about it I think...

I understand you

But I have to say I can't stop laughing at your last statement, like the creators asked blaze to be in , she was like nah. They asked shadow, "he was like sure but you gotta get me DLC,  I gotta look cool as shit " like they are now so bad, and sonic games have so bad reputation, they have to make deals for characters to be in the games like movie stars. Like them being gone wasn't them changing the games, they couldn't actually afford the characters because they started to charge for appearances. 

 

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3 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I made to page 25. My main concern since the reveal of Forces is how the other characters are used. So far it's a mix of Colors and Generations where the characters could do something but grown too dependent on Sonic to actually take action.

When the game officially releases I'll see some Let's play's on youtube hoping that I'm wrong. For now waiting for the IDW comics is gonna be torture.

It's been like that since Colors. Why watch these various talented people do something while they can just stand around just to talk about Sonic or how much they can't function without him.

You got dis Sanic.

I fear the IDW comics might change the status quo to the modern games. I really hope they just stick to how Archie was doing things by. But they very well could try to be as accurate to the current games as possible....which honestly could be very bad. I know Flynn is to be trusted, but corporate rules could maybe change the story and characters.

I'd say it started with Sonic Unleashed honestly. Knuckles is nowhere to be seen, Tails' new weak cowardly persona formed, Amy does nothing, etc.

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I understand you

But I have to say I can't stop laughing at your last statement, like the creators asked blaze to be in , she was like nah. They asked shadow, "he was like sure but you gotta get me DLC,  I gotta look cool as shit " like they are now so bad, and sonic games have so bad reputation, they have to make deals for characters to be in the games like movie stars. Like them being gone wasn't them changing the games, they couldn't actually afford the characters because they started to charge for appearances. 

 

If that's the case then they need better agents bad...especially Tails. Knowing his character he sticks around as he's loyal to Sonic and the series but has the attitude of "Things will get better right. I'll get better scripts right?" And that's why Lost World had bitchy Tails. 

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