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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread


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1 minute ago, dbzfan7 said:

You got dis Sanic.

I fear the IDW comics might change the status quo to the modern games. I really hope they just stick to how Archie was doing things by. But they very well could try to be as accurate to the current games as possible....which honestly could be very bad. I know Flynn is to be trusted, but corporate rules could maybe change the story and characters.

I'd say it started with Sonic Unleashed honestly. Knuckles is nowhere to be seen, Tails' new weak cowardly persona formed, Amy does nothing, etc.

If that's the case then they need better agents bad...especially Tails. Knowing his character he sticks around as he's loyal to Sonic and the series but has the attitude of "Things will get better right. I'll get better scripts right?" And that's why Lost World had bitchy Tails. 

Tails wasn't weak in Unleashed. He was ganged up by a bunch of Gaia monsters and got frightened. He just wasn't the super brave genius like he was in the comics. 

Which none of the games really got that right honestly. I remember when he went head on against scourge. Was pretty cool.

 Granted, I'd rather portray tails as a little more as a strategist rather punching things.

Both Amy and Tails weren't meant to be apart of Sonic's story. That was all Chip and Sonic. 

And you're leaving out the Context that Unleashed was a reboot and didn't have all of these shoved in characters. It was meant to re-establish the Sonic world but sadly, Hashimoto left and Sega acts like that game doesn't exist for some reason.

 

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35 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

What's bad about wanting 3D out of a 3D game?

I'm not sure this is actually related to what I said...

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30 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Tails wasn't weak in Unleashed. He was ganged up by a bunch of Gaia monsters and got frightened. He just wasn't the super brave genius like he was in the comics. 

Which none of the games really got that right honestly. I remember when he went head on against scourge. Was pretty cool.

 Granted, I'd rather portray tails as a little more as a strategist rather punching things.

Both Amy and Tails weren't meant to be apart of Sonic's story. That was all Chip and Sonic. 

And you're leaving out the Context that Unleashed was a reboot and didn't have all of these shoved in characters. It was meant to re-establish the Sonic world but sadly, Hashimoto left and Sega acts like that game doesn't exist for some reason.

 

He was though as he didn't even try to do anything. He just like in the present got scared, cried for help, and hid. It was the first moment in the series where Tails flees and hides. It woulda been fine if he had another moment to counter suit that (Not necessarily against the same opponent) to show despite being scared of the Dark Gaia creatures he could at least help Sonic out still....but he never does. If he was shown trying to fight them but they kept reforming so he couldn't do anything it wouda been fine. If he at least tried and failed it wouldn't be so bad. But he didn't do anything. It'd be the same if Knuckles or Amy or whoever had the same scenario and reacted the same. For this to work you have to have a character make up for their weak moment in some later time, or else they just look bad if they can't redeem themselves even in a small way. It's booking 101. 

So that scene basically kickstarted the whole Tails is weak and useless thing as after that, that's what he became. The the trend continued to Colours and so on.

Well to address both points in the comics he could be BOTH. He could use strategy as well as things like spin dash, tail swipe, etc. I mean in his own stand alone he used strategy to take out the big robot.

True but they were included and hardly did anything. Even Sonic coulda flew the plane himself.

Fair enough. I still think it at least set the seeds for the others then. Generations basically more or less showed it, and Lost World nailed the coffin.

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1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

Critics happened.

Idk about all that. I highly doubt any sensible critic were complaining about proper character development. And I'd be amazed if people demanding Tails to be dependent again was somehow a loud enough response for Sonic Team to even take heed of. It's way more likely, in fact most certainly the actuality that Sonic Team just messed up in the story department with no one else to blame like they usually do because they can't take the five minutes to see if a previous game conflicts with their current story.

And at the end of the day, it's up to Sonic Team to figure out how to properly uphold consistency in their writing and understand their own franchise, or else they'll shoot their selves in the foot some more when the people paying attention to their stories starts questioning and asking "why". Them going "Yes, uh-huh." to everybody and ultimately not thinking for their selves shouldn't be excused.

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1 minute ago, StriCNYN3 said:

Idk about all that. I highly doubt any sensible critic were complaining about proper character development. And I'd be amazed if people demanding Tails to be dependent again was somehow a loud enough response for Sonic Team to even take heed of. It's way more likely, in fact most certainly the actuality that Sonic Team just messed up in the story department with no one else to blame like they usually do because they can't take the five minutes to see if a previous game conflicts with their current story.

And at the end of the day, it's up to Sonic Team to figure out how to properly uphold consistency in their writing and understand their own franchise, or else they'll shoot their selves in the foot some more when the people paying attention to their stories starts questioning and asking "why". Them going "Yes, uh-huh." to everybody and ultimately not thinking for their selves shouldn't be excused.

I dunno....there is the "Friends are for loooosers" crowd.

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But those arguments are from the type of people who want to get rid of the existing cast all together. That shouldn't translate to "destroy a character from within and ruin their consistency each other game they star in"

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22 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

But those arguments are from the type of people who want to get rid of the existing cast all together. That shouldn't translate to "destroy a character from within and ruin their consistency each other game they star in"

Could be excuse to not have them playable?

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1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Tails wasn't weak in Unleashed. He was ganged up by a bunch of Gaia monsters and got frightened. He just wasn't the super brave genius like he was in the comics. 

Which none of the games really got that right honestly. I remember when he went head on against scourge. Was pretty cool.

 Granted, I'd rather portray tails as a little more as a strategist rather punching things.

Both Amy and Tails weren't meant to be apart of Sonic's story. That was all Chip and Sonic. 

And you're leaving out the Context that Unleashed was a reboot and didn't have all of these shoved in characters. It was meant to re-establish the Sonic world but sadly, Hashimoto left and Sega acts like that game doesn't exist for some reason.

 

Tails trying to stop Shadow in Sonic X was one of the most believable things - using his smarts when dealing against Dragon Ball levels of power-creep. And not being afraid of getting rag-doll'ed.

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2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Only because of Cosmo...he definitely didn't do that before.

He was also pretty much as capable as current Tails too, as in not at all XP

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8 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

He was also pretty much as capable as current Tails too, as in not at all XP

Yeah, pretty sure he wasn't even able to fight.

Not sure, but I don't think Archie Tails starts becoming more combat capable until really later on?

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Just now, Razule said:

Yeah, pretty sure he wasn't even able to fight.

Not sure, but I don't think Archie Tails starts becoming more combat capable until really later on?

Hey he beat....some....human guy....who touched his tails........yeah......

Well early on it was SATAM like but later on yes. 

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3 minutes ago, Razule said:

Yeah, pretty sure he wasn't even able to fight.

Not sure, but I don't think Archie Tails starts becoming more combat capable until really later on?

Archie tails beat sonic's ass. 

It was in the worst arc ever, the reasons for the confrontation are legendary sexist and horrible on sonic and tails's sides , i mean like " nice guy " creepy horrible for tails. 

However, it was neat, and the idea of sonic getting a big head and tail's ... or any character really rocking and reminding him he's actually not the coolest guy in the room, is some character development that even the games fail to do often enough. Sometimes its not about some big bad guy getting your head strait, sometimes your friend has to chew you out. 

Too bad, again, it was in a legendary shitty and super sexist ass arc

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1 hour ago, StriCNYN3 said:

Idk about all that. I highly doubt any sensible critic were complaining about proper character development. And I'd be amazed if people demanding Tails to be dependent again was somehow a loud enough response for Sonic Team to even take heed of. It's way more likely, in fact most certainly the actuality that Sonic Team just messed up in the story department with no one else to blame like they usually do because they can't take the five minutes to see if a previous game conflicts with their current story.

And at the end of the day, it's up to Sonic Team to figure out how to properly uphold consistency in their writing and understand their own franchise, or else they'll shoot their selves in the foot some more when the people paying attention to their stories starts questioning and asking "why". Them going "Yes, uh-huh." to everybody and ultimately not thinking for their selves shouldn't be excused.

Tails will be brought up in the more detailed reviews, I'd imagine. Tails' behavior is unsatisfactory for a story like this regardless of how he's supposed to be to us fans. 

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Archie tails beat sonic's ass. 

It was in the worst arc ever, the reasons for the confrontation are legendary sexist and horrible on sonic and tails's sides , i mean like " nice guy " creepy horrible for tails. 

However, it was neat, and the idea of sonic getting a big head and tail's ... or any character really rocking and reminding him he's actually not the coolest guy in the room, is some character development that even the games fail to do often enough. Sometimes its not about some big bad guy getting your head strait, sometimes your friend has to chew you out. 

Too bad, again, it was in a legendary shitty and super sexist ass arc

Don't forget when he was the chosen one where he became the most powerful/ugliest thing in existence :lol:

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Just now, dbzfan7 said:

Don't forget when he was the chosen one where he became the most powerful/ugliest thing in existence :lol:

Oh I wish I could forget

Oh I wish I could

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6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Oh I wish I could forget

Oh I wish I could

And people thought Boom Knuckles lifted bro....

But not to worry. He'll grow up on a different path.

18011610_134681187072025_391976022433175

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I was thinking... When the Avatar enters the boss

Infinite says this: "Friends are nothing but a fleeing illusion. You can count on nobody but yourself." Sure it could be Infinite just being edgy and bullying Sonic ala Boom Shadow but listen how desperate he sounds! It really hints that he has been betrayed by friends, and I refuse to believe that this is the end, with Infinite just disappearing.

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Infinite spends the whole game spewing generic edgelord lines just like that. It doesn't need any purpose beyond Sonic and the Avatar refuting it by beating him with teamwork.

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4 hours ago, Gabz Girl said:

The whole torturing thing was handled horribly and it seems like it was only added in because hey guys look! This Sonic game is really serious and dark again whoooo!  

When Knuckles mentioned it, his tone of voice hints it’s something very serious. Like Sonic is actually being tortured psychically or something. Yet when we see Sonic later on in his prison cell he’s still being snarky and happily joking around with Zavok, as if he’s just been chilling in his boring cell for half a year doing nothing. Tortured my ass! 

I like to think the whole paragraph about sonic being captured for 6 months was suppose to have a much shorter time frame but Sega really wanted to keep the possibilty of more character DLC open and so, just made it into 6 months instead. Honestly if they made it say "Sonic has been gone for 2 weeks", I feel that cutscene woulda made much more sense. If he was tortured the whole time, how is he able to function properly and doing super risky things like JUMPING FROM SHIP TO SHIP WHILE BEING SHOT DOWN.

 

2 hours ago, Clewis said:

Why is City Zone constantly being attacked by Eggman? Didn't he conquer everything already?

I think they were trying to follow that first promotional comic and imply that eggman keep trying to destroy the city's rebel base. 

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5 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

I was thinking... When the Avatar enters the boss

Infinite says this: "Friends are nothing but a fleeing illusion. You can't count on nobody but yourself." Sure it could be Infinite just being edgy and bullying Sonic ala Boom Shadow but listen how desperate he sounds! It really hints that he has been betrayed by friends, and I refuse to believe that this is the end, with Infinite just disappearing.

Well yeah that's in part why there was speculation on Infinite having been a friend of the avatar before he came Infinite and evil as Izuka said with there being a reason so let's hope we get more detail about him that was promised in the episode Shadow dlc. Infinite's situation could have been a symbiote connection with the Phantom Ruby in that given the lyrics of "This pain persists, I can't resist, but that's what it takes to be Infinite" and heck the lyrics in the rest of song does tie into the game like the ashes given the wiping out the Resistence with the sun and of course the illusions.

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1 minute ago, DanisWhite said:

I like to think the whole paragraph about sonic being captured for 6 months was suppose to have a much shorter time frame but Sega really wanted to keep the possibilty of more character DLC open and so, just made it into 6 months instead. Honestly if they made it say "Sonic has been gone for 2 weeks", I feel that cutscene woulda made much more sense.

How much time would they even need, though? Like, timeskip aside this game probably takes place over less than a week anyway. 2 weeks would've been plenty of time to slot in some more 3-stage DLC stories if they cared to.

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I'm worried if people don't like the story, they're going to go back to pontaff writing or just have Sonic be playable again. 

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