Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[speedfreak]

Hey, anyone have the complete stage list with who plays on the stage? Thanks!

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

18 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

You know, it just occurred to me.

In the Avatar's Green Hill stage, they're being chased by a land-roving robot. And the dialogue says "We can't let this thing get to the Chemical Plant!"

But, uh...

Green Hill is on South Island. Chemical Plant is on Westside Island. Was this robot walker going to run across the ocean?

I like to think that eggman just built another one on south island instead.

[superman43]

Literally couldn´t help myself. I don´t know why but in Sonic games you can literally use the game dialogue to describe the situation.

[Dr. Mechano]

30 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

People really seem to dislike Tails' new and positive character transition...it's increasingly harder to understand why with every passing comment about it.

Really makes a person wish Cream Cheese was in the game.

It wasn't positive though.

In SA2, Tails thought Sonic had died right before his eyes. And yeah, he was upset, but he fought on valiantly in Sonic's absence. He wasn't rendered totally incapable of functioning by it like he was here in Forces.

This is character derailment at its finest.

[Tarnish]

20 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Literally couldn´t help myself. I don´t know why but in Sonic games you can literally use the game dialogue to describe the situation.

To be honest, I think all the people insterested by the fan character creation alone will make this game profitable (with the boost fans not far behind). If there's anything SEGA/Sonic Team will deduce if it does become a failure, is that "Welp, people don't want serious stories after all!".

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Tarnish said:

To be honest, I think all the people insterested by the fan character creation alone will make this game profitable (with the boost fans not far behind). If there's anything SEGA/Sonic Team will deduce if it does become a failure, is that "Welp, people don't want serious stories after all!".

This wasn't a serious story though.

I mean, it was probably trying to be one, but all it ended up being was an incoherent mess.

This is why Sonic Team's "serious" games keep accidentally being way funnier than the games that are supposed to be comedies.

[Tarnish]

7 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

This wasn't a serious story though.

I mean, it was probably trying to be one, but all it ended up being was an incoherent mess.

This is why Sonic Team's "serious" games keep accidentally being way funnier than the games that are supposed to be comedies.

I know it failed at being a serious story, but I'm sure Sonic Team would insist that nah, this is a very serious story (the same way they insisted this is not Generations 2).

But that's how SEGA/Sonic Team operates, don't they? They do a half-assed attempt at something which fails miserably and is bashed by fans, but the only conclusion they can get is "well, let's scrap this idea/approach ENTIRELY". I mean as far as I'm concerced, the failure of Sonic 2006 made them believe that people don't want a big story, multiple playable characters or the Adventure style gameplay.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

That's not true! It's not just Sonic. They also let awkward Sonic recolors with no defined personality have important time to shine.

Shadow or the OC

[StaticMania]

22 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

It wasn't positive though.

In SA2, Tails thought Sonic had died right before his eyes. And yeah, he was upset, but he fought on valiantly in Sonic's absence. He wasn't rendered totally incapable of functioning by it like he was here in Forces.

This is character derailment at its finest.

Heh heh, I'd like to think it's because in SA2 Tails was in a mech at the time. But here he thought Sonic died because he got smacked around a few times, yeah...that makes sense.

Really makes a fella wish Amy was there instead of Tails.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

You know, it just occurred to me.

In the Avatar's Green Hill stage, they're being chased by a land-roving robot. And the dialogue says "We can't let this thing get to the Chemical Plant!"

But, uh...

Green Hill is on South Island. Chemical Plant is on Westside Island. Was this robot walker going to run across the ocean?

It's a Chemical Plant, not the Chemical Plant. One of many Chemical Plants.

[Celestia]

1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

Was this robot walker going to run across the ocean?

I could actually see that, it is clearly based on a crab after all.

But it's more likely that this Chemical Plant is technically a different one. It kinda makes sense Eggman would build one wherever. ...Come to think of it, has anyone paid attention to the world map to see if they're on different landmasses or something? I think I remember everything pretty much being in the same area but I can't say for sure.

8 minutes ago, Razule said:

Shadow or the OC

Ehh, Shadow's no more or less a recolour than Amy and he has a pretty defined personality, even if I'm not very happy with his characterization in the games post-Heroes.

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, StaticMania said:

Heh heh, I'd like to think it's because in SA2 Tails was in a mech at the time. But here he thought Sonic died because he got smacked around a few times, yeah...that makes sense.

Really makes a fella wish Amy was there instead of Tails.

I mean, Tails is formiddable in and out of his mech.

He can crush robots just by jumping into them, like Sonic can. As per tradition, he can take down Eggman's mechs by bopping them eight times.

Mech or not, Tails is a formiddable guy. And, at least when SA2 was written, he wasn't the sort of character to be rendered completely nonfunctional by the loss of his friend. He'd have stood up and fought back. He'd have fought back harder than anyone, because he was Sonic's sidekick and he knew how important it was to keep fighting for the things Sonic believed in.

Forces' handling of his character was an insult to Tails, and felt like it ruined his character for some contrived drama.

Just now, Celestia said:

I could actually see that, it is clearly based on a crab after all.

But it's more likely that this Chemical Plant is technically a different one. It kinda makes sense Eggman would build one wherever. ...Come to think of it, has anyone paid attention to the world map to see if they're on different landmasses or something? I think I remember everything pretty much being in the same area but I can't say for sure.

Ehh, Shadow's no more or less a recolour than Amy and he has a pretty defined personality, even if I'm not very happy with his characterization in the games post-Heroes.

Shadow's not a recolor of Sonic, but he basically is a recolor of Super Sonic. He has the exact same spine arrangement and everything, they didn't even bother tweaking them a little.

And I get it, that's the point, part of the plot hinged on them looking similar. But just because a plot hinges on two characters looking the same doesn't mean it's a particularly good character design. I don't give Eggman Nega a pass for originality, so I definitely don't give Shadow one either.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

7 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

 I mean as far as I'm concerced, the failure of Sonic 2006 made them believe that people don't want a big story, multiple playable characters or the Adventure style gameplay.

I mean... a lot of people don't want those things. And when I say "people", I mean the total gaming population, not hardcore Sonic fans. Especially the Adventure style gameplay genre roulette. Almost everyone complained about those and do not want that back, outside of a minority of fans whose first game was SA2 on the gamecube.

The way they've been handled in the Modern Sonic era (1998-present) have largely not been great and its why Sonic's reputation has been mediocre for a long time. The adventure gameplay never quite worked even for Sonic, the multiple playable characters were problematic because they're gameplay was designed as filler content that detracted from the core gameplay experience, and the big stories usually fell flat on their face because they typically conflict with the series overall narrative and tone. 

In a vacuum, ideas like these have potential. But on the whole they haven't been done well in this franchise.

[Gabz Girl]

50 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Literally couldn´t help myself. I don´t know why but in Sonic games you can literally use the game dialogue to describe the situation.

Oh lol, I’m sorry but every time I see this cutscene I have to laugh. It’s supposed to be a semi-serious moment, but when you have Avatar there with his weird get up and Sonic’s awkward way of saying “Soooo BAdly” you just can’t take it serious. There are unfortunately other moments like that in the game too.

[superman43]

Just now, Gabz Girl said:

Oh lol, I’m sorry but every time I see this cutscene I have to laugh. It’s supposed to be a semi-serious moment, but when you have Avatar there with his weird get up and Sonic’s awkward way of saying “Soooo BAdly” you just can’t.

Maybe SoJ thought about it like this: We will make it for Japan... and the others... "at least they will have a good laugh" 

[Tarnish]

10 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I mean... a lot of people don't want those things. And when I say "people", I mean the total gaming population, not hardcore Sonic fans. Especially the Adventure style gameplay genre roulette. Almost everyone complained about those and do not want that back, outside of a minority of fans whose first game was SA2 on the gamecube.

The way they've been handled in the Modern Sonic era (1998-present) have largely not been great and its why Sonic's reputation has been mediocre for a long time. The adventure gameplay never quite worked even for Sonic, the multiple playable characters were problematic because they're gameplay was designed as filler content that detracted from the core gameplay experience, and the big stories usually fell flat on their face because they typically conflict with the series overall narrative and tone. 

In a vacuum, ideas like these have potential. But on the whole they haven't been done well in this franchise.

Obviously I don't want Big's fishing gameplay or Amy's slow platforming back either. But it's hard for me to believe they can't take Sonic, Tails and Knuckles' gameplay from Adventure 1, improve and build on those so that they share a core set of moves but also has meaningful differences in 3D. I mean that's 3 gameplay styles, they are also dealing with 3 gameplay styles in Forces, I'm not asking for things they're not already trying here.

Also, when was the last real attempt at making Tails and Knuckles work in 3D? Sonic 2006 if you count that amigo thing? I have a hard time believing there's nothing more that could be done with those characters, while with Sonic they're trying to reinvent the wheel every few years.

[Dr. Mechano]

Guys, I hate this story as much as the next guy, and far be from me to defend anything in this game... but I feel like a lot of you missed the point of the "sooo badly" line.

Sonic's mocking Eggman in that scene. His voice is supposed to sound bored and disinterested, because he's been through the motions of this over and over already. He's already heard Eggman say the line that he's mocking and expects to hear it again this time; hence his disinterested tone.

Again, I hate that I have to defend something from this utter trainwreck of a game, but I don't think this counts as an example of bad voice acting/direction.

[Tarnish]

2 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Guys, I hate this story as much as the next guy, and far be from me to defend anything in this game... but I feel like a lot of you missed the point of the "sooo badly" line.

Sonic's mocking Eggman in that scene. His voice is supposed to sound bored and disinterested, because he's been through the motions of this over and over already. He's already heard Eggman say the line that he's mocking and expects to hear it again this time; hence his disinterested tone.

Again, I hate that I have to defend something from this utter trainwreck of a game, but I don't think this counts as an example of bad voice acting/direction.

If the delivery of a line makes me cringe, I'll take that as bad voice acting.

[Gabz Girl]

8 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Guys, I hate this story as much as the next guy, and far be from me to defend anything in this game... but I feel like a lot of you missed the point of the "sooo badly" line.

Sonic's mocking Eggman in that scene. His voice is supposed to sound bored and disinterested, because he's been through the motions of this over and over already. He's already heard Eggman say the line that he's mocking and expects to hear it again this time; hence his disinterested tone.

Again, I hate that I have to defend something from this utter trainwreck of a game, but I don't think this counts as an example of bad voice acting/direction.

Ah alright, fair enough. Just the way he says his line is a bit odd, even if there’s a reason for why he says it that way. ^^;;

[StaticMania]

9 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

If the delivery of a line makes me cringe, I'll take that as bad voice acting.

It's not really that simple...but okay.

 

[DabigRG]

16 hours ago, Celestia said:

. Like, anything would've been better than a text box, but even just replacing "six months passed, deal with it" with "the Resistance and Eggman's army continued the struggle, until one day..." would've been, uh, marginally better. 

Then again it's not surprising since I'm someone who's more invested in character writing / interaction, which...this game is a mixed bag on. Tails backpedaled from Lost World but not quite enough backpedaling tbqh (RIP SA1&2 Tails),

Agreed.

 

Honestly, I'd say they backpedaled way too hard.

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

Guys, I hate this story as much as the next guy, and far be from me to defend anything in this game... but I feel like a lot of you missed the point of the "sooo badly" line.

Sonic's mocking Eggman in that scene. His voice is supposed to sound bored and disinterested, because he's been through the motions of this over and over already. He's already heard Eggman say the line that he's mocking and expects to hear it again this time; hence his disinterested tone.

Again, I hate that I have to defend something from this utter trainwreck of a game, but I don't think this counts as an example of bad voice acting/direction.

It's still to my ears annoying and cringing whether or not the intention was purposeful or not. Again, sonic has done mocking more obviously, and better, in past games to eggman.

It's like when a game plays up a dead stupid annoying gameplay cliche, and people defend it with "it's satire that's the joke/point!"

[StaticMania]

The defense only works when it's being subverted...which not every game does.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, StaticMania said:

People really seem to dislike Tails' new and positive character transition...it's increasingly harder to understand why with every passing comment about it.

Really makes a person wish Cream Cheese was in the game.

It's not hard to see what the story was going for with him: he's very down after he feels Sonic got captured/killed because he couldn't get an idea of how to help deal with the villains with his Miles Electric and couldn't fight them off himself. The problem is that it was handled in a way that made him feel too wimpified and the story does relatively minimal to have him make up for it. 

 

Also, may I ask exactly why you say that about Cream and Cheese? I agree that they're absence is very odd, but the context makes me wonder.

[speedfreak]

3 hours ago, SaberX said:

Did that helps?

 

 

Yup, thanks!