Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Almar]

49 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Just like Sonic Lost world there's no flow in the writing. We don't get a transition between Dumb Knuckles/ Guardian Knuckles into him taking the role of Rebellion leader. He just magically is. All we get is the comic and even that one was a "Oh, I suddenly decided to become a leader of a rebellion" out of thin air.

Knuckles is the only the leader thanks to being an iconic character in the series.

He has never shown any interest or ability in leadership ever before Forces. Vector and Rouge are both better suited to lead.

[Dr. Mechano]

16 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I meant the fortress from sonic 2 and sonic unleashed both sported military designs no sonic heroes fish. Not everything he builds is cute and if I'm control of the world and want citizens to remain under my thumb a military like ladybug will cause me more fear than a bright red with cute dots ladybug to scare me.  the same eggman that tried to nuke a city and held any at gunpoint

Yeah, but the Eggman I know would nuke it with an explosion shaped like his own face.

That's the difference between merely being a villain and a supervillain: 

 

[Meta77]

14 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Yeah, but the Eggman I know would nuke it with an explosion shaped like his own face.

That's the difference between merely being a villain and a supervillain: 

 

While "presentation" is good he usually doesn't all the time. Eggman from sa1 wanted eggman land. Sa2.....just the cannon to control the world. He jumps to much it's like Dr nefarious. He can be silly but ruthless evil at times you need a balance

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Meta77 said:

While "presentation" is good he usually doesn't all the time. Eggman from sa1 wanted eggman land. Sa2.....just the cannon to control the world. He jumps to much it's like Dr nefarious. He can be silly but ruthless evil at times you need a balance

Uh...

The giant mustached face on that doomsday weapon kind of undermines your point. Yeah, logically it was probably modeled after Gerald's face rather than Eggman's, but they look so similar that in this instance, Eggman's grandfather already did the work for him.  Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Other than that, look at his pyramid base. Statues of Eggman in the style of ancient Egyptian artwork everywhere: And the base was patrolled by none other than a troop of cutesy animal-shaped Badniks. Sure, the E-1000s were there, and they're fine, but they weren't Eggman's only robots.

Heck, when Eggman threatens the world, there's scrolling text on screen that's merely there to bolster his ego: "I am great. I am smart. I am an emperor..." and so on. He may be threatening in that scene, but he's still demonstrating the height of his egocentricity and arrogance.

[Meta77]

2 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Uh...

The giant mustached face on that doomsday weapon kind of undermines your point. Yeah, logically it was probably modeled after Gerald's face rather than Eggman's, but they look so similar that in this instance, Eggman's grandfather already did the work for him.  Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Other than that, look at his pyramid base. Statues of Eggman in the style of ancient Egyptian artwork everywhere: And the base was patrolled by none other than a troop of cutesy animal-shaped Badniks. Sure, the E-1000s were there, and they're fine, but they weren't Eggman's only robots.

Heck, when Eggman threatens the world, there's scrolling text on screen that's merely there to bolster his ego: "I am great. I am smart. I am an emperor..." and so on. He may be threatening in that scene, but he's still demonstrating the height of his egocentricity and arrogance.

Oh I agree he has a god tier ego but he will still wipe out a city to get what he wants

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Meta77 said:

Oh I agree he has a god tier ego but he will still wipe out a city to get what he wants

Right, and I never said otherwise.

I just feel like in Forces he does everything with no style, no grace, and - most importantly - no things modeled after his face. (Re-using the Death Egg for the umpteenth time notwithstanding.)

[Meta77]

1 minute ago, Super Mechanio said:

Right, and I never said otherwise.

I just feel like in Forces he does everything with no style, no grace, and - most importantly - no things modeled after his face. (Re-using the Death Egg for the umpteenth time notwithstanding.)

He is probably just tired

[DiamondX]

You guys need to understand people can change. The character won't remain the same for 30 years.

The way I see it is that Eggman went full serious mode this time. He was done with flashy colours and funny robots. He was able to conquer the world, and he did it seriously.

[Razule]

34 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

He is probably just tired

He's been ruler of 99% of the world for six months, he should be elated.

25 minutes ago, DiamondX said:

You guys need to understand people can change. The character won't remain the same for 30 years.

The way I see it is that Eggman went full serious mode this time. He was done with flashy colours and funny robots. He was able to conquer the world, and he did it seriously.

People can-... this is a fictional universe not a retelling of historic events. We can apply this to every time in the series the characters' personalities change on the writer's whim, but that doesn't make it good. Tails becoming useless isn't because "people can change". He's cowering like a civillian against robots he'd destroy no sweat a decade ago.

[Heckboy]

20 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

I just feel like in Forces he does everything with no style, no grace

Eggman is Lanky Kong confirmed

 

In all seriousness, yeah, I agree Eggman was really dull in this. Eggman can take over the world and still be a boisterous, fun villain. He's a ridiculous character, and a plot where he takes over the world would be a great opportunity to play up his hammy, egotistical side. But then Forces just seems to suck the life out of most of the cast for some reason. 

[QuantumEdge]

1 minute ago, Mister X said:

Eggman is Lanky Kong confirmed

 

In all seriousness, yeah, I agree Eggman was really dull in this. Eggman can take over the world and still be a boisterous, fun villain. He's a ridiculous character, and a plot where he takes over the world would be a great opportunity to play up his hammy, egotistical side. But then Forces just seems to suck the life out of most of the cast for some reason. 

That might be because Sonic Team mistake sucking quirky characteristics out of the cast as a means of creating a solemn narrative.  Unfortunately they didn't seem to realise you can have fun with your characters as well as have them in a more serious place.  It's all half-arsed and disconnected, which only leads me to assume the guys working on this suffered from a lack of passion as well as experience.

I mean, how else is it that they didn't even try to have fun with a guy as delightfully mad and ridiculous as Dr freaking Eggman?

[RLS Legacy]

 

Oh, dear Lord. The laziness is staggering.

Incidentally, this even extends to one of the red rings being in the EXACT SAME LOCATION as it was in Colors, on the rightmost rail through a rainbow ring. Just... abysmal.

[RedFox99]

48 minutes ago, QuantumEdge said:

That might be because Sonic Team mistake sucking quirky characteristics out of the cast as a means of creating a solemn narrative.  Unfortunately they didn't seem to realise you can have fun with your characters as well as have them in a more serious place.  It's all half-arsed and disconnected, which only leads me to assume the guys working on this suffered from a lack of passion as well as experience.

I mean, how else is it that they didn't even try to have fun with a guy as delightfully mad and ridiculous as Dr freaking Eggman?

I mean maybe have moments of levity where the characters talk amongst themselves and resting from fighting. For example, maybe a moment where Amy hugs Modern Sonic and he hugs her back. While I do understand her being less like a Genki Girl during missions, it could've nice to show some moments of rest for the characters to show off their quirks.

[GuyWithThePie]

6 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

 

Man what a dissapointment.
A game about Dr. Eggman in charge. So do we get scared citizens worshipping Eggman statues, giant Tv screens of Eggman demanding citizens to do silly things in his honor, an even more extreme version of Mania's Robotnik Tv show? Do we get Robotnik themed circusses, opera's, themeparks? Nope, nope nope.

 

This actually might be one of the most disappointing parts of the game for me. We hardly get to see how Eggman's rule affects the whole world. Oh sure, we get to visit a bunch of different places, but it all feels so "contained". Something like Unleashed where we get to see just how Eggman's rule has affected completely different parts of the world would be far more interesting.

Instead, all we really get to see is a city under attack and a few natural environments being destroyed, and not even anywhere near the level of what we saw in Sonic CD. We also don't even get to see exactly how Eggman came to rule, as the game opts for a text box instead.

Also, what was the deal with Metropolis? I thought it was just a futuristic city that Eggman hasn't managed to conquer yet, but from what I'm hearing it's actually Eggman's stronghold? It doesn't even look like anything he'd make! I'd expect a capital city under Eggman's rule to be filled with golden statues in his likeness and huge screens broadcasting propaganda 24/7. Basically Studiopolis and Stardust Speedway Bad Future combined. Of course, there's also the possibility that Metropolis has already existed and Eggman hasn't had the time to make his own "personal adjustments" within the six months Sonic was gone. But then that just brings up another problem.

Why was Sonic only captured for six months? That barely gives Eggman any time to make some serious changes to the world. Why not make it a whole year, at least? Or if you don't want to keep Sonic locked up for so long, why not just do those extreme changes anyway with the explanation that Eggman used Infinite's powers to help him build his empire faster and more efficiently than he ever could alone?

This entire game is a missed opportunity.

[superman43]

2 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

This actually might be one of the most disappointing parts of the game for me. We hardly get to see how Eggman's rule affects the whole world. Oh sure, we get to visit a bunch of different places, but it all feels so "contained". Something like Unleashed where we get to see just how Eggman's rule has affected completely different parts of the world would be far more interesting.

Instead, all we really get to see is a city under attack and a few natural environments being destroyed, and not even anywhere near the level of what we saw in Sonic CD. We also don't get to see exactly how Eggman came to rule, as the game opts for a text box instead.

Also, what was the deal with Metropolis? I thought it was just a futuristic city that Eggman hasn't managed to conquer yet, but from what I'm hearing it's actually Eggman's stronghold? It doesn't even look like anything he'd make! I'd expect a capital city under Eggman's rule to be filled with golden statues in his likeness and huge screens broadcasting propaganda 24/7. Basically Studiopolis and Stardust Speedway Bad Future combined. Of course, there's also the possibility that Metropolis has always existed and he just hasn't had the time to make his own "personal adjustments" within the six months Sonic was gone. About that.

Why was Sonic only captured for six months? That barely gives Eggman any time to make some serious changes to the world. Why not make it a whole year, at least? Or if you don't want to keep Sonic locked up for so long, why not just do those extreme changes anyway with the explanation of Eggman using Infinite's powers to help him build his empire faster and more efficiently than he ever could alone?

This whole game is a missed opportunity.

Or it is just Grand Metropolis from Sonic Heroes and Eggman finally owns HexaEco ?

[GuyWithThePie]

13 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Or it is just Grand Metropolis from Sonic Heroes and Eggman finally owns HexaEco ?

I don't get where this whole thing about Metropolis being Grand Metropolis comes from. They don't even look the same. Grand Metropolis has buildings of all sorts of shape and color. Metropolis is mostly uniform white buildings with green lights. The only similarity is the hexagons and futuristic aesthetic. It could be a different city owned by HexaEco, maybe a smaller one, which would explain why it's just "Metropolis". But I just don't see it being THE Grand Metropolis.

[superman43]

16 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

I don't get where this whole thing about Metropolis being Grand Metropolis comes from. They don't even look the same. Grand Metropolis has buildings of all sorts of shape and color. Metropolis is mostly uniform white buildings with green lights. The only similarity is the hexagons and futuristic aesthetic. It could be a different city owned by HexaEco, maybe a smaller one, which would explain why it's just "Metropolis". But I just don't see it being THE Grand Metropolis.

Still it can be the same, Grand Metropolis in Heroes was when Eggman´s robots were taking control of everything... Metropolis on the other hand... seems to possess power supply underneath, and Eggman could actually repaint the building in order to confuse anyone looking for the supply and strip the "Grand". That would be clever. And as you said, there are hexagons and it looks futuristic.

We don´t get any idea mainly because no character talks about the Metropolis other than Eggman, as far as I know.

[Sean]

I know Metropolis the word wasn't invented by Sonic or anything but it seriously bugs me that a zone in Forces shares the exact name as the one in Sonic 2 and has no similarities to it.

 

 

 

on second thought Metropolis Zone fucking blows so maybe it's good that Forces' version is nothing like it

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, Sean said:

I know Metropolis the word wasn't invented by Sonic or anything but it seriously bugs me that a zone in Forces shares the exact name as the one in Sonic 2 and has no similarities to it.

It's the same problem as Chemical Plant.

It has the same name as a zone from Sonic 2, but it probably can't be the same one, since Chemical Plant and Green Hill appear to be on the same landmass.

[Sean]

An argument can be made that the Forces Chemical Plant is different from the Sonic 2 one, however Sega probably does consider them to be on a shared landmass. Considering how many retcons this series is guilty of even before Forces came along, it wouldn't shock me.

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Sean said:

An argument can be made that the Forces Chemical Plant is different from the Sonic 2 one, however Sega probably does consider them to be on a shared landmass. Considering how many retcons this series is guilty of even before Forces came along, it wouldn't shock me.

It wouldn't shock me if they didn't even know the name of the island Sonic 2 took place on. 

But apparently, actually looking at the map, they are on different landmasses. But Green Hill appears to be on a big-ass continent instead of an island.

[MysteriousGirl 92]

2 hours ago, Razule said:

Tails becoming useless isn't because "people can change". He's cowering like a civillian against robots he'd destroy no sweat a decade ago.

Exactly. He could have told the villagers to get to safety while he deals with the robots. When he told Sonic about Eggman forces taking over, I didn't think that Tails would cower in fear over a few easy-to-destroy robots.

[DiamondX]

2 hours ago, Razule said:

He's been ruler of 99% of the world for six months, he should be elated.

People can-... this is a fictional universe not a retelling of historic events. We can apply this to every time in the series the characters' personalities change on the writer's whim, but that doesn't make it good. Tails becoming useless isn't because "people can change". He's cowering like a civillian against robots he'd destroy no sweat a decade ago.

I was talking about Eggman...

[Razule]

1 minute ago, DiamondX said:

I was talking about Eggman...

It was an example of applying that logic to everything.

 

[dbzfan7]

2 hours ago, Razule said:

People can-... this is a fictional universe not a retelling of historic events. We can apply this to every time in the series the characters' personalities change on the writer's whim, but that doesn't make it good. Tails becoming useless isn't because "people can change". He's cowering like a civillian against robots he'd destroy no sweat a decade ago.

He is a civilian practically....except looks much better with his character design than the Boom rejects.