Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Balding Spider]

6 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

I think in their attempts to simplify things, this weird retcon just made everything way more complicated and nonsensical.

I can't wait until the next game gets released and forgets any of this shit happened.

 

[dbzfan7]

14 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

According to Iizuka, they're "on the human world." Since Sonic takes place on two different worlds now.

Wait what does that even mean? We saw plenty of humans in Sonic Unleashed. Since when are there two worlds? Don't tell me Sonic X was right all along.

[Razule]

13 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean the humans specifically on /that/ world. Don't see why we can't have a cross between the two. You'd think since GUN is so interested in Sonic and co, they'd be studying his world, frequently traveling to it since they have agents their. 

Also, is Shadows then origin, the human world?

There are no humans on Sonic's world but Eggman as far as we know.

I'd assume it works the same way as it does in Sonic X. That is to say it just is, and there's no real explanation

This is an example of SEGA jumping to explain things while overcomplicating them at the same time. Meta-wise, they just choose whether they want a game to take place in a realistic world and a wacky world. Two Worlds is just their weird way of justifying their not being crossover between the two in one game.

8 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Wait what does that even mean? We saw plenty of humans in Sonic Unleashed. Since when are there two worlds? Don't tell me Sonic X was right all along.

Quote

It used to be that Eggman was the sole human. Starting with Sonic Adventure, we're seeing more and more humans show up in the stories. Where are they all coming from?

Iizuka: The world that Sonic lives in and the world the humans live in are separate worlds. But, some of the canon games do have Sonic and humans together, and part of that is based on what world is being portrayed when the game is developed. There are kind of different worlds that do exist and sometimes there's some crossover.

Yep. 

[Joellui]

Jesus, that's probably the most complicated thing I've ever to heard to such a simple question.

[dbzfan7]

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

There are no humans on Sonic's world but Eggman as far as we know.

I'd assume it works the same way as it does in Sonic X. That is to say it just is, and there's no real explanation

This is an example of SEGA jumping to explain things while overcomplicating them at the same time. Meta-wise, they just choose whether they want a game to take place in a realistic world and a wacky world. Two Worlds is just their weird way of justifying their not being crossover between the two in one game.

Yep. 

That doesn't even make any sense. Why can't it just be different cities have a different populous? It's much easier to understand. So what there's two "Earth's" for a lack of a better name. No one ever mentions they go between two dimensions or whatever.....man seriously Toriyama after being years away from Dragon Ball can come up with stuff that makes more sense upon returning, than Iizuka can. And this is the guy who thought 18 had purple hair, and thought Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3 didn't exist.

[Celestia]

I've said this before but if the two worlds thing is a real literal thing in-universe, I don't get the impression it's to simplify things. It's to address complaints from people who can't wrap their head around humans other than Eggman existing in the series or w/e. Basically, as annoying as it can be for Sonic fans' criticisms and such to be dismissed, there was some genuinely dumb stuff over the years, and unfortunately SEGA caught word on some of the dumbest of it. /just a l'il bitter

But I'm still pretty sure it's strictly a meta thing, lol. I know it was "reconfirmed" recently but it still sounded pretty vague to me, and if it was ever going to come up in dialogue it would've been in this game. I won't even be surprised if a future game does firmly establish two worlds, but for now I'm not taking it seriously at all.

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Balding Spider said:

I can't wait until the next game gets released and forgets any of this shit happened.

 

It's not new to Forces, this is the way the canon has been since at least when Colors was still being developed.

Quote

Could you tell us a bit about the story behind Sonic Colours? It looks more like the old games, which were set on Moebius, than the new-style Sonics set in Station Square...

We have two different worlds for Sonic games – one is human, and one is set on the non-human side. Sonic Colours is set on the non-human side.

 

 

[KHCast]

1 minute ago, Razule said:

It's not new to Forces, this is the way the canon has been since at least when Colors was still being developed.

 

But...wasn't the amusement park built as an apology from eggman for the events of Unleashed? Or was that fan canon?

[dbzfan7]

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

It's not new to Forces, this is the way the canon has been since at least when Colors was still being developed.

 

With those interview quotes I now unintentionally think of world racism between the two as for some reason they're separated, or a potential human/non human war breaking out....yeah it's dumb thoughts...especially the first one not at all being true.

[Razule]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

But...wasn't the amusement park built as an apology from eggman for the events of Unleashed? Or was that fan canon?

It's making up for "all the trouble he caused over the years", not specifically Unleashed. 

[Toa Axis]

Just now, KHCast said:

But...wasn't the amusement park built as an apology from eggman for the events of Unleashed? Or was that fan canon?

Not specifically for the events of Unleashed. I believe. Quoting Eggman from Colors, "This amusement park has been constructed entirely out of a sense of remorse for my past transgressions..."

It was really just a generalization of Bad Shit he had done in prior games (which could include Unleashed, I guess?).

[Dr. Mechano]

The question that Iizuka was asked, saying that Eggman used to be the only human isn't technically correct either. Witchcart was human, presumably.

...I'm not convinced anyone at Sonic Team actually remembers or cares about obscure Gamegear characters, of course, so I guess it's a moot point.

[KHCast]

Going by colors, the world we see looks almost exactly like the one we see in Unleashed. Wish they made the worlds at least different looking if this has been a thing for awhile. 

Also, what about Gerald? Wouldn't that make eggman not the only human on Sonic's world?

[Dr. Mechano]

6 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Going by colors, the world we see looks almost exactly like the one we see in Unleashed. Wish they made the worlds at least different looking if this has been a thing for awhile. 

Also, what about Gerald? Wouldn't that make eggman not the only human on Sonic's world?

I presume that Eggman was born in the human world and just tries to conquer both planets, depending on where he is at the time.

...I guess this also means Angel Island can't just float, but also travel through space, since it was clearly in Sonic Adventure, a world populated by humans. =P

Again, like I said, should've just left it as one cohesive world. Same goes for retconning classic and modern into being different universes. Now Forces is full of familiar places that Sonic should have canonically never been to.

[Celestia]

Even if they did remember Witchcart, it would still be a valid statement because there were games before Tails Sky Patrol, therefore "it used to only be Eggman."

12 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Going by colors, the world we see looks almost exactly like the one we see in Unleashed. Wish they made the worlds at least different looking if this has been a thing for awhile. 

That's one reason why I think it's not meant to be taken that literally. The "two worlds" thing has apparently been a thing since then, but there's still evidence the games take place on a single planet, and as time has gone on there hasn't actually been anything to indicate otherwise.

[Razule]

5 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Going by colors, the world we see looks almost exactly like the one we see in Unleashed. Wish they made the worlds at least different looking if this has been a thing for awhile. 

Also, what about Gerald? Wouldn't that make eggman not the only human on Sonic's world?

Well no because Gerald is dead, and Sonic Adventure 2 takes place on Human Planet

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Gerald did make it to Angel Island at some point though, right? He based Shadow off the Super Sonic mural? Or was that just some headcanon I read somewhere?

[KHCast]

5 minutes ago, Razule said:

Well no because Gerald is dead, and Sonic Adventure 2 takes place on Human Planet

I mean clearly I meant while he was alive and raising eggman? :/

he made Shadow so clearly was aware of those beings 

[Celestia]

3 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Gerald did make it to Angel Island at some point though, right? He based Shadow off the Super Sonic mural? Or was that just some headcanon I read somewhere?

That was a fan theory, albeit one that makes sense considering the altar in the center of the ARK & the Artificial Chaos.

[Razule]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Gerald did make it to Angel Island at some point though, right? He based Shadow off the Super Sonic mural? Or was that just some headcanon I read somewhere?

It's a common headcanon, but a headcanon nonetheless. Hidden Palace probably isn't even canon to the post Adventure storyline.

[Nakasu]

Until Izuka's comment I always related it to how it worked in the Comics. How both humans and Sonic exist in the same world but were just recently encountering each other as of Sonic Adventure. I mean what sense does it make for Eggman to keep alternating between worlds, and how DO they alternate between worlds? Does he decide to blow up the human world and release Dark Gaia one day, and the next day decide to go back and build a giant theme park in space?

It really doesn't make sense especially taking into consideration Sonic Adventure 2 - Heroes. If Heroes takes place in Sonic's World? Does it mean Eggman found shadow on Earth after SA2, brought him to Sonic's World to fix him up for him to be released in Heroes, and then Shadow by himself returned to the Human world for sightseeing conveniently just in time for the Alien Invasion?

Taking in the whole plot of the Space Colony Arc, my only simple theory is the Sonic X theory. That the worlds used to be one approximately 50 years ago and separated cause plot.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

1 minute ago, Celestia said:

That was a fan theory, albeit one that makes sense considering the altar in the center of the ARK & the Artificial Chaos.

I suppose the whole Shadow looking like Super Sonic thing is uncertain, but there's nothing else in the series that really looks like the Emerald altar, so it could be considered tier-2 canon.

 

Anyway I think the answer to the two worlds thing is that unless it's ever mentioned ingame we can pretend it's meaningless.

 

Or just give all creative and story-based direction to me. I'd treat it right.

[Dr. Mechano]

5 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Gerald did make it to Angel Island at some point though, right? He based Shadow off the Super Sonic mural? Or was that just some headcanon I read somewhere?

Honestly makes sense. Might've even seen the Eggman on the mural as himself, and viewed it depicting him creating Shadow (rather than his future grandson fighting Sonic).

[Razule]

18 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean clearly I meant while he was alive and raising eggman? :/

he made Shadow so clearly was aware of those beings 

I mean.. we don't necessarily know he raised Eggman. We don't even know if young Eggman personally knew him.

Yeah, he probably just knew about them.. somehow

14 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I suppose the whole Shadow looking like Super Sonic thing is uncertain, but there's nothing else in the series that really looks like the Emerald altar, so it could be considered tier-2 canon.

 

Anyway I think the answer to the two worlds thing is that unless it's ever mentioned ingame we can pretend it's meaningless.

Well.. considering there's the question of why GUN isn't in nor even mentioned Sonic Forces as of yet, it kind of is relevant.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I mean they weren't in Unleashed either, that supposedly takes place on human world. Need I mention SA1?