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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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1 minute ago, Shaddy the guy said:

And thus, we ignore any of this "two worlds" bullshit until the games try to make it a thing. I rest my case.

Basically what I'm doing. If they don't mention it in the series itself, then I take it with a grain of salt at best.

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14 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Gonna make a wild guess that GUN hasn't been mentioned because it isn't exactly a popular concept.

Yeah, sega kept trying to make gun a thing, but no one wanted to be a thing. TBH team dark is in a similar boat, both team dark and GUN are kinda only relevant concepts because of the shadow part. And if he's not around, who cares. 

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I really don't get the whole "two worlds" thing they're trying to push here. Why can't they just make it so that both humans and anthropomorphic creatures coexist on different parts of the world?

Super Mario Odyssey did something like this with the Metro Kingdom, which did raise a few eyebrows at first, but most came to accept it as "Yeah, realistic cities and humans exist in Mario's otherwise wacky world". And a concept like the Metro Kingdom wouldn't seem too out of place in Mario's world anyway, being a country composed entirely of gigantic "skyscrapers" with normal-sized cities at the top. Similar to how Unleashed has its own wacky counterparts to our real-world locations, filled with springs, loop-de-loops and rings.

Obviously Sonic has more story and continuity than Mario and can't get away with things like inconsistent art styles so easily, but I really don't see the problem with just putting humans and anthros on the same world. Unleashed perfected the human aspect with its Pixar-styled humans and stylized real-world locations, they should've just kept building on that instead of throwing it all away.

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38 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

I really don't get the whole "two worlds" thing they're trying to push here. Why can't they just make it so that both humans and anthropomorphic creatures coexist on different parts of the world?

Super Mario Odyssey did something like this with the Metro Kingdom, which did raise a few eyebrows at first, but most came to accept it as "Yeah, realistic cities and humans exist in Mario's otherwise wacky world". And a concept like the Metro Kingdom wouldn't seem too out of place in Mario's world anyway, being a country composed entirely of gigantic "skyscrapers" with normal-sized cities at the top. Similar to how Unleashed has its own wacky counterparts to our real-world locations, filled with loop-de-loop highways and rings.

Obviously Sonic has more story and continuity than Mario and can't get away with things like inconsistent art styles so easily, but I really don't see the problem with just putting humans and anthros on the same world. Unleashed perfected the human aspect with its Pixar-styled humans and stylized real-world locations, they should've just kept building on that instead of throwing it all away.

Judging by the questions that led to Iizuka saying that, I'd guess that they decided that Sonic people and humans existing on the same planet was too difficult for people to grasp.

Perhaps they're aware that people's perceptions of Sonic's world have been shaped by the various western cartoons and Sonic X, and they tried to reconcile it (much like Robotnik and chili dogs) but in a half-assed way because they know it doesn't really fit the world as it already was and outright saying it in-game would raise too many questions and contradict events in previous games (like a certain other retcon introduced in Forces).

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1 hour ago, Dejimon11 said:

Tails game off as a little wuss(I'm trying to be polite here) and it's really sad that he only has to rely on sonic whenever it comes to doing anything  and how he was just praising Classic Sonic the whole time. Sonic was captured by and apparently tortured for 6 months but really he didn't act like somebody who was suffering or anything like that.

Yeah, Tails asked a 'dead' Sonic to come and save him. Really? And yes, Sonic should have had something to indicate that the torture has affected him.

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1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Asking for Sonic's help even though he thinks Sonic is dead, true signs of being cloud cuckoo. No wonder he immediately attaches to Classic Sonic.

Tails has potential too, right? He shouldn't have to depend on Sonic, ANY Sonic, so much. I know the game is called Sonic Forces, but what about Tails wanting to do more things for himself and others? "No, we can't have that in this game. Sonic is the star, so he should do all the hard work". The writers might as well use the motto "Sonic does all the hard work, so you don't have to". 

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5 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Perhaps Tails was more messed up than we thought. Asking for Sonic's help even though he thinks Sonic is dead, true signs of being cloud cuckoo. No wonder he immediately attaches to Classic Sonic.

So tails is the crazy one while sonic, who's been tortured for 6 months, comes out perfectly fine, cocky, and confident. Makes sense.

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9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

So tails is the crazy one while sonic, who's been tortured for 6 months, comes out perfectly fine, cocky, and confident. Makes sense.

While it does make sense for Tails to lose a little confidence, he should grow up a little without him (like he did in Sonic Chronicles. Was that game canon?). Sonic should have lost a bit of his confidence at least. But no, Sonic showing any signs of weakness is inappropriate.

And what he said to the Avatar (in flashback) was a bit... I can't find the right word for it. "Don't be scared"? Really? People have a right to be scared, Sonic. Even you. You should have said, "I know you're scared and I know it won't be easy, but right now we need the courage and the strength to fight. You can do this, you can win this fight. I believe in you, we all believe in you. You just need to believe in yourself."

Yes, I know he's Sonic and he doesn't say much, but the writers could have at least given Sonic some encouraging words to say to the person joining the fight.

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I don't want Shadow affiliated with GUN anymore, he's to loner based and has ambiguous moral limits which a goverment position for him would ruin him. I am also sick of ROuge giving the orders because she really doesn't have control over his decisions at the end of the day, plus I would see Shadow as being to egotistical and active to be ordered around, he's kinda like Sonic in that respect.

GUN plots in the comic do nothing but just throw Shadow and Rouge and Omega under the bus because the writer doesn't like them or he has no idea what to imaginatively do with them.

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1 hour ago, FFWF said:

On another subject entirely, are there thirty different Wispons, as that PSN Trophy indicated?  Or can you just collect multiple or something?

Based on what I saw on the stream,  it looks like you unlock the same weapons with different perks like bonus rings when you use them.  I might be wrong since i wasnt really paying attention, but after seeing how rushed and sloppy this game is, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.

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34 minutes ago, mayday2592 said:

Based on what I saw on the stream,  it looks like you unlock the same weapons with different perks like bonus rings when you use them.  I might be wrong since i wasnt really paying attention, but after seeing how rushed and sloppy this game is, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.

That's a shame.  Granted, it would have been a bit surprising if out of everything they cut corners on they managed to make a whole bunch of different Wispons, but it's not too hard to come up with new ideas for them.  ...Wispons are an idea I like on paper.  I think it's interesting to come up with new applications for each Wisp, and it actually does something different and fresh with the whole concept.  But in execution, I don't think they fit Sonic gameplay at all; in a combat-light genre, all the developers can do is line up Egg Pawns like bowling pins for you to knock over with no effort.

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This two worlds thing with Sonic is some ol’ BS. Why can’t they just have humans and anthros living together on the same planet but on separate continents or something? 

I hate to compare again, but look at Super Mario Odyssey. There’s a Metro Kingdom on Mario’s planet where humans live! Yes they’re realistic looking which is jarring as all hell, but that’s the whole point! They’re wacky worlds!

If Sonic Team wants to add humans again without fans complaining about them looking realistic, make them look cartoony like the ones in Sonic Unleashed. This way they won’t look out of place like the ones in Sonic 06. It’s not that hard! 

Two worlds...ugh.

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Well the point of 06 was to place sonic in a more mature realistic tone. That's why you had Mario metro type humans in it compared to the super deformed cartoon humans in unleashed but Sega doesn't know how to I'mpliment ideas now like that it seems

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2 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

I don't want Shadow affiliated with GUN anymore, he's to loner based and has ambiguous moral limits which a goverment position for him would ruin him. I am also sick of ROuge giving the orders because she really doesn't have control over his decisions at the end of the day, plus I would see Shadow as being to egotistical and active to be ordered around, he's kinda like Sonic in that respect.

Is he a loner? He's constantly accompanied by a team, even with GUN removed from the equation. He's ostensibly friends with his teammates, though the games take a very "tell, don't show" approach to these friendships and we never really see much evidence of genuine camaraderie between them.

He isn't really morally ambiguous either. He was outright villainous for most of SA2, and then he underwent a complete heel-face turn and is an unambiguous hero now. At best, he was "ambiguous" during the Heroes-Shadow stint, where they gave him amnesia; a bad decision, in most peoples' opinion. Like, despite the edgy attitude and dark motifs, I wouldn't even call him an antihero. He fights bad guys and saves people, and does it in a very morally unambiguous manner. Just because he's grumpier than Sonic doesn't mean he has ambiguous morality.

I guess the Boom version of Shadow is a loner, though; He thinks friends are pathetic (or at least, Sonic's friends). Of course, even he's not morally ambiguous, and was bizarrely written as an outright villain - albeit one without much of a motive other than hating Sonic.

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