Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Polkadi~☆]

3 minutes ago, TailsTellsTales said:

Also what happened to Tails? Is it really that bad? It can not be that bad right?

It's pretty bad. Let's run a cutscene by you.

Tails attempts to rebuild Omega, presumably failing, and says that he's sorry he's not smart enough.

Chaos 0 appears. Tails panics.

"SONIC, HELP ME!"

Deus ex machina with obligatory Mania connection, as Classic Sonic runs out of a portal and takes out Chaos.

Tails immediately clings to Classic Sonic.

"It's good to see you, Sonic! Heck, it's good to see any Sonic!"

 

Ready for more?

Eggman attacks.

It's basic Egg Pawns attacking.

Tails cowers with some civilians.

It takes Sonic to appear for him to be safe.

Infinite and his crew appears, beats Sonic up.

Tails stands by and does nothing, basically.

Sonic gets defeated.

Tails screams out Sonic's name.

Tails does fuck-all.

[TailsTellsTales]

6 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

It is. It's pretty bad.

Darn. I was hoping it was not that bad.

 

6 minutes ago, Polkadi said:

It's pretty bad. Let's run a cutscene by you.

Tails attempts to rebuild Omega, presumably failing, and says that he's sorry he's not smart enough.

Chaos 0 appears. Tails panics.

"SONIC, HELP ME!"

Deus ex machina with obligatory Mania connection, as Classic Sonic runs out of a portal and takes out Chaos.

Tails immediately clings to Classic Sonic.

"It's good to see you, Sonic! Heck, it's good to see any Sonic!"

 

Ready for more?

Eggman attacks.

It's basic Egg Pawns attacking.

Tails cowers with some civilians.

It takes Sonic to appear for him to be safe.

Infinite and his crew appears, beats Sonic up.

Tails stands by and does nothing, basically.

Sonic gets defeated.

Tails screams out Sonic's name.

Tails does fuck-all.

Goodness! What is this?! Sounds like the winner of the "Write Tails as badly as you can." contest! Well on the bright side at least... um... let me think... gotta have positive thinking, oh yeah! At least Tails was done nicely in Sonic Mania!

[dbzfan7]

11 minutes ago, Polkadi said:

It's pretty bad. Let's run a cutscene by you.

Tails attempts to rebuild Omega, presumably failing, and says that he's sorry he's not smart enough.

Chaos 0 appears. Tails panics.

"SONIC, HELP ME!"

Deus ex machina with obligatory Mania connection, as Classic Sonic runs out of a portal and takes out Chaos.

Tails immediately clings to Classic Sonic.

"It's good to see you, Sonic! Heck, it's good to see any Sonic!"

 

Ready for more?

Eggman attacks.

It's basic Egg Pawns attacking.

Tails cowers with some civilians.

It takes Sonic to appear for him to be safe.

Infinite and his crew appears, beats Sonic up.

Tails stands by and does nothing, basically.

Sonic gets defeated.

Tails screams out Sonic's name.

Tails does fuck-all.

You forgot to add Charmy Bee proves more capable than Tails, and actually helps while Tails doesn't even help in the big battle with everyone in it.

Also Donkey Kong could fix Omega.

So that means Charmy is more capable than Tails, and Donkey Kong is smarter than Tails.

[StaticMania]

Wow, you really like that Charmy joke...but he sounds like Tails now, so I don't understand why you don't view them as the same.

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Wow, you really like that Charmy joke...but he sounds like Tails now, so I don't understand why you don't view them as the same.

Not really a joke but ok.

Oh and I think I found the Sonic Team hidden plans.

[StaticMania]

Well you keep comparing Tails' competency to Charmy in a way that doesn't make sense...so I don't know what else it could be.

[dbzfan7]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Well you keep comparing Tails' competency to Charmy in a way that doesn't make sense...so I don't know what else it could be.

I don't know what doesn't make sense. Charmy proves he can tag along with the big boys, join in on the big battle, while Tails could not. Charmy helps in the big battle teaming up with the likes of Silver and the Chaotix, while Tails doesn't even bother helping but casually flying above. Mooks are too scary for Tails. Charmy helps take out the illusions of Metal Sonic and the rest. I doubt Charmy in this game alone would be afraid of mooks.

[TailsTellsTales]

18 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

You forgot to add Charmy Bee proves more capable than Tails, and actually helps while Tails doesn't even help in the big battle with everyone in it.

Also Donkey Kong could fix Omega.

So that means Charmy is more capable than Tails, and Donkey Kong is smarter than Tails.

Okay yeah that's really bad. So in other words this is Tails' worst appearance ever in a Sonic game. That is gonna suck for those 70 million Tails fans out there. Well there is always the next Sonic game... I just realized, I am kinda terrified of the next Sonic game.

[Joellui]

They really threw any character development into the a dumpster of acid. Yikess.

[dbzfan7]

2 minutes ago, Joellui said:

They really threw any character development into the a dumpster of acid. Yikess.

Well I guess. I mean Knuckles got a little boost to not be brain dead. Eggman kinda traded off charm for credibility. Sonic was a little more to the punch rather than farting about and loving himself to much to get a move on and just take out a foe already.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

15 minutes ago, TailsTellsTales said:

Okay yeah that's really bad. So in other words this is Tails' worst appearance ever in a Sonic game. That is gonna suck for those 70 million Tails fans out there. Well there is always the next Sonic game... I just realized, I am kinda terrified of the next Sonic game.

You mean 5?

[Sean]

The thing that gets me about this version of Tails is that it makes no canonical sense whatsoever. This isn't the first time Tails has witnessed Sonic's defeat - hell, he watched Sonic "die" in SA2 and rather than give up, his resolve buckled down, even despite his blunderous slip-of-the-tongue about the fake emerald moments ago. I've seen a lot of people cite his general overall development in SA1 and 2 as contradicting his portrayal in Forces, which is true, but Sonic has been defeated before in front of Tails' eyes, which is concrete, indisputable evidence that Tails' character doesn't line up with what we've seen in the past. There's just no justification for it unless you want to go the route of trying to argue for there having been an actual continuity reboot somewhere between this game and SA2.

All this is is complete and total character assassination.

[TailsTellsTales]

8 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

You mean 5?

I am sure it's more than 5 million.

 

7 minutes ago, Sean said:

The thing that gets me about this version of Tails is that it makes no canonical sense whatsoever. This isn't the first time Tails has witnessed Sonic's defeat - hell, he watched Sonic "die" in SA2 and rather than give up, his resolve buckled down, even despite his blunderous slip-of-the-tongue about the fake emerald moments ago. I've seen a lot of people cite his general overall development in SA1 and 2 as contradicting his portrayal in Forces, which is true, but Sonic has been defeated before in front of Tails' eyes. It doesn't make any sense at all for him to act like this and there's zero justification for it unless you want to go the route of trying to argue for there having been an actual continuity reboot between this game and SA2.

Yeah this. It's like Tails is not even Tails anymore and it's just another character dressed up as Tails. He was much more better written in the Adventure games I noticed. I am sure they will fix it in the next game I hope. I mean you can only go up after hitting rock bottom. Though I know Sega loves a good challenge and might try to make Tails even worse.

[dbzfan7]

9 minutes ago, Sean said:

The thing that gets me about this version of Tails is that it makes no canonical sense whatsoever. This isn't the first time Tails has witnessed Sonic's defeat - hell, he watched Sonic "die" in SA2 and rather than give up, his resolve buckled down, even despite his blunderous slip-of-the-tongue about the fake emerald moments ago. I've seen a lot of people cite his general overall development in SA1 and 2 as contradicting his portrayal in Forces, which is true, but Sonic has been defeated before in front of Tails' eyes, which is concrete, indisputable evidence that Tails' character doesn't line up with what we've seen in the past. There's just no justification for it unless you want to go the route of trying to argue for there having been an actual continuity reboot somewhere between this game and SA2.

All this is is complete and total character assassination.

"Ass"assination is definitely the correct term I would say.

[Diogenes]

27 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I don't know what doesn't make sense. Charmy proves he can tag along with the big boys, join in on the big battle, while Tails could not. Charmy helps in the big battle teaming up with the likes of Silver and the Chaotix, while Tails doesn't even bother helping but casually flying above. Mooks are too scary for Tails. Charmy helps take out the illusions of Metal Sonic and the rest. I doubt Charmy in this game alone would be afraid of mooks.

Charmy is implied to be useful, somehow. We never actually see how because the resistance basically does fuck all.

Tails is not useful early in the game, because he's mourning/traumatized by Sonic's "death", and it takes him some time to overcome that. At which point, like most of the characters in the game, he proceeds to do fuck all.

The whole mess doesn't actually work for a number of reasons but the game is not actually trying to say that Charmy is more competent than Tails.

[Razule]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Charmy is implied to be useful, somehow. We never actually see how because the resistance basically does fuck all.

Tails is not useful early in the game, because he's mourning/traumatized by Sonic's "death", and it takes him some time to overcome that. At which point, like most of the characters in the game, he proceeds to do fuck all.

The whole mess doesn't actually work for a number of reasons but the game is not actually trying to say that Charmy is more competent than Tails.

I think the issue is less competence, and more that Tails is weak and unable to fight now, while Charmy can. Either way it contradicts the way he once was.

[CleverSonicUsername]

The whole "there's a human world and an animal world" thing feels like a really clunky version of Mario's "they're all actors and every game is another play/movie/show."

[DabigRG]

58 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Wow, you really like that Charmy joke...but he sounds like Tails now, so I don't understand why you don't view them as the same.

Honestly, I say that has more to do with how people generally feel about Charmy then anything else.

50 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I don't know what doesn't make sense. Charmy proves he can tag along with the big boys, join in on the big battle, while Tails could not. Charmy helps in the big battle teaming up with the likes of Silver and the Chaotix, while Tails doesn't even bother helping but casually flying above. Mooks are too scary for Tails. Charmy helps take out the illusions of Metal Sonic and the rest. I doubt Charmy in this game alone would be afraid of mooks.

To be fair, that's always been a difference between the two. It's just that this game ended up exaggerating it.

10 minutes ago, Razule said:

I think the issue is less competence, and more that Tails is weak and unable to fight now, while Charmy can. Either way it contradicts the way he once was.

This.

17 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Charmy is implied to be useful, somehow. We never actually see how because the resistance basically does fuck all.

Well, it's probably a combination of the fact that he can [apparently] fly longer than any of the others, is strong enough to lift people, was always eager to get in on the action, and has the ability to find things with some sort of sixth sense. There's also the teleporting flower thing, but it's unlikely he can use that anymore after Eggman and Infinite wrecked things.

 

Sonic characters tend to be versatile when you really think about it.

[Razule]

Hell, it contradicts the way he is in a game that came out a couple months ago, alternate dimensions notwithstanding. But unfortunately this is just the way they've written Modern Tails for the past decade. We saw the beginnings in Unleashed cowering against the Gaia creatures, the progression in Colors going to eat sushi while Sonic goes through levels, and this is the logical conclusion of it.

[StaticMania]

In Lost World Tails got knocked out by a buzz-bomber blast, it makes sense that Tails in Forces would be afraid of Chaos 0 and some soulless Egg Pawns.

[Razule]

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

In Lost World Tails got knocked out by a buzz-bomber blast, it makes sense that Tails in Forces would be afraid of Chaos 0 and some soulless Egg Pawns.

People complained when that happened, too, it's not exclusive to Forces. Doesn't make it better either. Basically Tails being weak when he used to not be weak sucks. As I said, yes, this is the way he's been for the past decade. Forces just makes it especially obvious this is not the Tails of old. Doesn't mean he can't.. not be like this.

[dbzfan7]

33 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Charmy is implied to be useful, somehow. We never actually see how because the resistance basically does fuck all.

Tails is not useful early in the game, because he's mourning/traumatized by Sonic's "death", and it takes him some time to overcome that. At which point, like most of the characters in the game, he proceeds to do fuck all.

The whole mess doesn't actually work for a number of reasons but the game is not actually trying to say that Charmy is more competent than Tails.

We do though. We see him right into the heat of the big battle, assisting Silver and fighting off a Metal Sonic illusion, which is more than Tails ever did. Not to mention as mentioned a bunch before, Sonic had essentially DIED in front of Tails for all he knew, and it was his fault for all he knew. That still didn't stop him from going up against Eggman despite screwing up so badly. I'm not even saying the game is trying to say this, but it is definitely unintentionally or subtly implying it.

7 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

In Lost World Tails got knocked out by a buzz-bomber blast, it makes sense that Tails in Forces would be afraid of Chaos 0 and some soulless Egg Pawns.

Which was stupid in itself and a whole other topic.

Just now, Razule said:

People complained when that happened, too, it's not exclusive to Forces. Doesn't make it better either. Basically Tails being weak when he used to not be weak sucks. As I said, yes, this is the way he's been for the past decade. Forces just makes it especially obvious this is not the Tails of old. Doesn't mean he can't.. not be like this.

He's supposed to be Sonic's sidekick, but he barely classify's as one. You can be scared and still be capable. Look at Luigi. He's a much bigger coward, and yet he'll still do what's right in the end, especially if Mario is in trouble. Luigi on his worst day is still better than Tails is now.

[StaticMania]

Just now, Razule said:

People complained when that happened, too, it's not exclusive to Forces. Doesn't make it better either. Basically Tails being weak when he used to not be weak sucks. As I said, yes, this is the way he's been for the past decade. Forces just makes it especially obvious this is not the Tails of old. Doesn't mean he can't.. not be like this.

I wasn't using that as a defense, it's just that people only seem to reference Lost World in regards to Tails' attitude...and it makes me sad. There's a whole package there.

[Sean]

As much as people don't like Tails in Lost World (I don't, either), he was at least incredibly resourceful, even on his own. Maybe to a hilarious, unrealistic degree, but it's definitely a far cry from how he acts in Forces.

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

Hell, it contradicts the way he is in a game that came out a couple months ago, alternate dimensions notwithstanding. But unfortunately this is just the way they've written Modern Tails for the past decade. We saw the beginnings in Unleashed cowering against the Gaia creatures, the progression in Colors going to eat sushi while Sonic goes through levels, and this is the logical conclusion of it.

To be fair, in all of those instances, Tails played a major role in helping solve the problem, more so than Amy and Knuckles in fact.

• In Unleashed, he was introduced being surrounded by Gaia Creatures and flew off to take cover before(?) the Werehog showed up. Once it was cleared out, however, he revealed that he had already being in contact with Professor Pickle and spent the rest of the game helping Sonic travel to each continent while fighting off the Egg Cauldron.
• In Colors, he traveled with Sonic to investigate the Interstellar Amusement Park and spent most of the game creating a program to help him understand Yacker and the Wisps so they can stop Eggman's plan. And the one time he actually could help out in a boss fight, Sonic shoves him into the space elevator to make sure he gets to safety in case he doesn't make it in time.
•  In Generations, he...well, mainly gets swiped up by the Time Eater  along with the others, but he and his classic counterpart at least help figure out the Time Eater's abilities and allows the others to somehow speak with the Super Sonics during the Final Boss(for better or worse :lol:).
• And in Lost World, he helps Sonic chase after Eggman to the Lost Hex and while there is a bit of conflict due to his insecure misgivings about having to rely on Eggman, ultimately shuts down the overloading Extractor and even figures out how to reverse the process. He also ruins Zik's plan to roboticize Sonic at the cost of being captured himself but is able to take advantage of the situation to pull the wool over Zavok, Zeena, and Zor's eyes.

In Forces, however, he's twice(or thrice, if you count Omega for whatever reason) shown to be inefficient during key scenes where he could've done something and then he just kinda piggybacks off of Classic and Buddy for the rest of the game. He's also not passed over for the leadership role in lieu of Knuckles and his likely hand in possibly creating the Wispons goes completely unmentioned.

So I think the problem is more that with the rest of the cast having an active hand for once means that his shortcomings this time around are all the more noticeable given his lack of personal focus.