Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Razule]

35 minutes ago, Auroxen said:

Regarding the Past Classic Sonic vs. Other Dimension Classic Sonic thing

My idea is that after C. Sonic was sent to the past at the end of Generations, it made the timeline split at that point and in that timeline after Sonic 3&K comes Sonic Mania instead of the modern games, which would explain how C. Sonic can be from both Generations and Mania

Yes this is a plausible idea, but the fact of the matter is Tails and Eggman already know that Classic is from another dimension immediately instantly

Why would they know that

[Shadowlax]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Feels like this is getting awful close to "I don't like this, so it's bad. You don't like that, so you're wrong."

For me no. 

There are plenty of characters who have weird iterations that I like, but I understand that , that isn't the character. If the character were to be that, that would be incorrect. It would be not only a flanderization of single moment, and not even the character itself, but a non understanding of what the character actually is.

Fun breaks from the norm are fun, but for the character to just be that, 9/10 you ruin that character. 

[Dr. Mechano]

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But the comics did that fine though

Like keep bringing this up, and I can point you to the comics that do the thing you ask, with out resorting to humor all the time, and sometimes manage to still be funny. I feel like your views on what makes a good character is , extremly limited. And I say this as someone talking about characters in sonic, a series with extremely limited characters already

Nah, I like plenty of serious characters. I just don't think Shadow's a very good one. And it's mainly like you said - the series does have extremely limited (and inconsistent) characters, and I feel that even when they try to be super serious, it doesn't really work like a better-written story would.

Offhand, I love the Metal Gear series, and it stars a gruff-voiced guy with a gun and a tragic backstory. Superficially, Snake's got a lot of the same surface-level traits Shadow has. ...But he's also genuinely charming and funny, and the serious elements he does have are written better in my opinion. So I dunno, I don't think I have "extremely limited" tastes in characters as you're suggesting.

Agreed on the comics. Ian Flynn is probably the best person to have ever handled these characters, and it's a shame he isn't involved with the game series.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Super Mechanio said:

Nah, I like plenty of serious characters. I just don't think Shadow's a very good one. And it's mainly like you said - the series does have extremely limited (and inconsistent) characters, and I feel that even when they try to be super serious, it doesn't really work like a better-written story would.

I don't think being serious, and being well written are mutually exclusive 

1 minute ago, Super Mechanio said:

Offhand, I love the Metal Gear series, and it stars a gruff-voiced guy with a gun and a tragic backstory. Superficially, Snake's got a lot of the same surface-level traits Shadow has. ...But he's also genuinely charming and funny, and the serious elements he does have are written better in my opinion. So I dunno, I don't think I have "extremely limited" tastes in characters as you're suggesting.

I would argue that snake isn't funny, its his scenario, and his supporting cast that's funny. But that's another thing, the only time snake was funny was when snake isn't the main character, other wise he's kind of this dumb weirdo asking questions over and over, which is funny in its own way. 

That said though, the snake route isn't the only means of making a serious character interesting, there's a lot of you can do with gameplay and dailouge to achieve such goals. And many games have. There are plenty of games with serious characters that don't require their characters to have terrible voice actors or to be shouting memes to be funny and can put their serious character in a silly situation. Which is the much more elegant way to make shadow funny, yeah you can give him quirks, but you don't need all that. Him being in weird situations allows him to maintain his seriousness with out actually having to break character, and that type of character has always been more interesting to me. 

Its why I like Yakuza , Kiyru is the straightest strait face dude you will ever meet in your life, man just meets crazy folks on the street and helps them with whatever dumbshit they have for him at any given time. And works with his character, he's reacting to the situation and that's why its funny rather than he himself bringing the humor, shadow, like kiryu works best as a strait man. But you can put him in fun situations and see how he reacts. That's what I want, not intentionally bad voices or forced humor, to take shadow out of his element, and I hope that future sonic media actually explore that. 

( hey just make a shadow the hedgehog game, that's just yakuza, how about you do that ) 

1 minute ago, Super Mechanio said:

Agreed on the comics. Ian Flynn is probably the best person to have ever handled these characters, and it's a shame he isn't involved with the game series.

I've come to terms with sega isn't going to let him or anyone else help craft a sonic game, with its story that's not from sonic team japan. At best they will get translation work, and that sucks

[TailsTellsTales]

8 hours ago, Azure P said:

In concerns to Tails lately in the series.

It kind of makes sense why Tails reacted the way he did in Lost World. But just seems Sega doesn't know how to make use of any one else but Sonic... and Classic Sonic these days.

Looks like this person will have to make a third video now.

[dbzfan7]

I mean Shadow and Marine were funny together without destroying Shadow's character in the comics I think. I mean the only time I really consider Shadow an edgelord is in his own game. I mean come on "Taking candy from babies, which is fine by me..." yeah....that's asking for it. Oh and Sonic Boom being an edge lord where the game it feels serious while the show.....I dunno I don't watch it as I can't stand it...but that's not the point there anyways. But honestly he's not even a loner exactly. He likes his team, he doesn't hate everyone, he's genuinely disciplined. 

To be perfectly honest....modern Shadow I wouldn't even say is Shadow....he's basically a parody of Vegeta. That's basically what I see. A bad parody of Cell arc Vegeta...who's basically the worst Vegeta. Shadow can totally work in a charming comedic way. His chemistry with Rouge and Omega I think shows that. The best thing for Shadow if you want humor out of him is to put him with someone goofy. Shadow isn't a person who jokes a lot (But he does occasionally), he's the straight man. His jokes have to come in reaction to someone else. 

[PandaChao]

1 hour ago, Ultimate Victory 64 said:

Sorta off topic can we come to an agreement that Null Space is the best level

 

 

Nothing really impresses me about Null Space. It makes me realize how bad the abundance of rails, enemy hordes, and homing chains are.

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, TailsTellsTales said:

Looks like this person will have to make a third video now.

Well we have this

 

[TailsTellsTales]

6 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Well we have this

 

Yes that is the second one that was made.

[Almar]

For Shadow to be at his best,  they need to remember not to have the DARK overwhelm the SONIC.

[Ultimate Victory 64]

3 hours ago, PandaChao said:

Nothing really impresses me about Null Space. It makes me realize how bad the abundance of rails, enemy hordes, and homing chains are.

But Null Space is great

[Sean]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate Victory 64 said:

But Null Space is great

And this is relevant to anything... how?

Enough with spammy posts like this, y'all.

[Razule]

Tbh I'm completely satisfied with Shadow's current voice.

[StaticMania]

How many lines did he have, I only remember him saying that one sentence after roundhouse kicking the fake Shadow.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

The awkward thing with Shadow's voice by making him a selfaware edgelord, he's funnier and more enjoyable for people who hate Shadow as a character, but it irritates people who love Shadow as a character.

So you're either someone that hates it that Shadow's around but can tolerate his performance
Or you're someone who love Shadow being around but hate his performance.

So nobody's ever really happy then, are they?

This is my problem with Sega of America trying to please the people who hate the franchise or it's components.
They're already angry and irritated so you can only make them less annoyed, while people who were enjoying themselves feel betrayed.
We're falling between the ship and the docks, as we'd say in the Netherlands.

Plus personally, I would find Shadow funnier if he WASN'T self aware of him being edgey. Playing it up as delusion or a weird form of innocence is funnier.
Now it just feels like the writers and voice actors are screaming "we're aware, we're aware, we're aware!" in my face with no substance or anything of interest beneath.

[caitash]

6 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

Well we have this

 

This one was so damn sweet. Kinda does feel like the Mania effect has been undone, bring on the 3rd video XD;

[Shadowlax]

15 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

The awkward thing with Shadow's voice by making him a selfaware edgelord, he's funnier and more enjoyable for people who hate Shadow as a character, but it irritates people who love Shadow as a character.

So you're either someone that hates it that Shadow's around but can tolerate his performance
Or you're someone who love Shadow being around but hate his performance.

So nobody's ever really happy then, are they?

This is my problem with Sega of America trying to please the people who hate the franchise or it's components.
They're already angry and irritated so you can only make them less annoyed, while people who were enjoying themselves feel betrayed.
We're falling between the ship and the docks, as we'd say in the Netherlands.

Plus personally, I would find Shadow funnier if he WASN'T self aware of him being edgey. Playing it up as delusion or a weird form of innocence is funnier.
Now it just feels like the writers and voice actors are screaming "we're aware, we're aware, we're aware!" in my face with no substance or anything of interest beneath.

thanks for putting that more elegantly than i did

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Here's the thing: I don't mind Shadow. In fact, I like him. But Shadow is a character who disappeared after Sonic Heroes, for me. The only thing that resembles him is Edgelord, a new character introduced in 2005 that happened to reuse Shadow's design. Edgelord isn't usually any good as a character. He's either too bland or too offensively stupid. Seeing him made into a joke is the best way thing they can do with him as long as he still needs to be around, while his lookalike Shadow was resurrected to star occasionally in the comic series, and he's done a better job there than any other incarnation.

Basically, Shadow has no chance of ever being what he was in SA2 again, so I'd rather take a character that's funny over one that's fucking terrible. Because any attempt made at getting people to take Shadow seriously again up until this point has only ended in disaster. So until Flynn is writing the games, just let Shadow be fun instead of awful. It's not like any change these shitty stories make has to be permanent anyway, they already brought him back from the dead, after all.

[A_W]

There's some new stuff courtesy of the Steam version manual:

• Hard Mode still has a ring cap, but it's 999 rings.
• It is possible to get a Time Over at 60 minutes, which will boot you back to the World Map.
• Dying is still referred to as "losing a life", even though there's no lives.

Also, the wall jump is not listed as an action in the manual, probably because it only appears in a single level.

[WhoWhatMan]

36 minutes ago, A_W said:

There's some new stuff courtesy of the Steam version manual:

• Hard Mode still has a ring cap, but it's 999 rings.
• It is possible to get a Time Over at 60 minutes, which will boot you back to the World Map.
• Dying is still referred to as "losing a life", even though there's no lives.

Also, the wall jump is not listed as an action in the manual, probably because it only appears in a single level.

i like how classic sonic doesn't even get his own bio in this manual lmao

Anyway, the only real interesting thing to note is that Sega is planning more DLC after the game is done but I think we already knew about getting more after the Shadow's DLC?

[The Tenth Doctor]

Speaking of DLC, since Mayor D pointed out Episode Shadow was available, has anyone heard anyhting about how it is? What is our 3rd remix track alongside Supporting Me and Rhythm and Balance?

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Here's the thing: I don't mind Shadow. In fact, I like him. But Shadow is a character who disappeared after Sonic Heroes, for me. The only thing that resembles him is Edgelord, a new character introduced in 2005 that happened to reuse Shadow's design. Edgelord isn't usually any good as a character. He's either too bland or too offensively stupid. Seeing him made into a joke is the best way thing they can do with him as long as he still needs to be around, while his lookalike Shadow was resurrected to star occasionally in the comic series, and he's done a better job there than any other incarnatio n.

I like shadow in his game and in 06 so... yeah. Also i dunno, he seems fine in forces , and in the forces comics and he's neither of the things you said, and i'm sure he will be fine his forces DLC. I think you can have shadow work fine, and I don't need him to be what he was in sa2, nor do I want him to be, he's evolved as a chartcter and that's fine. 

Quote

Basically, Shadow has no chance of ever being what he was in SA2 again, so I'd rather take a character that's funny over one that's fucking terrible. Because any attempt made at getting people to take Shadow seriously again up until this point has only ended in disaster. So until Flynn is writing the games, just let Shadow be fun instead of awful. It's not like any change these shitty stories make has to be permanent anyway, they already brought him back from the dead, after all.

I would rather be himself than be " awful" and be a mememan and be actually aweful. Like knuckles. Knuckles is the character you are talking about, and he's terrible now. Or tails. 

Not blaming you or anyone for sega's decisions, but " I would rather just take this " instead of what the character actually is letting them to continue ruining characters, and i'm not in the business of not holding sega up for their bullshit

[caitash]

Oh hey, my copy just arrived in the post.

Time to play!

[Meta77]

I really hope the game is worth the wait on xb1x haha I could have been imported a copy but seeing as it's supposed to be 4k and 60fps I'm twiddling my fingers waiting

[Mark1]

Anyone got to try out the Shadow DLC yet? Keen to see what form of additions are made to the story.