Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[caitash]

Not yet, but the Playstation store is telling me my download redeem code for the bonus edition avatar outfits isn't valid so not sure if there's a problem with my code or if they're disabled until nearer launch date.

[Framerate]

So wait there is gonna be more dlc in the future?

[Eternal EX]

I'm guessing it's still locked out. I mean yeah you can download it, but it doesn't mean it's available to play. Ya know like other DLC packs with other games.

[DabigRG]

12 hours ago, Razule said:

Huh.. that OC kinda looks like a shark. 

A female, toothless Razor?

[Meta77]

95% sure your just locked out. A lot of games may leak but at the same time if they have dlc tied to them those are strictly locked down until the day of even if you can see the dlc

[Dr. Mechano]

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I would rather be himself

But what is "himself?"

He's been portrayed inconsistently in nearly every single game. In his own spinoff game, he's written like a rebellious child who just learned what cursing is. In 2006, he's the exact opposite - his character is defined by being a loyal government agent who follows orders straight from the president. In Sonic Rivals, he seems genuinely concerned for Eggman's well-being, but in Sonic Chronicles he's ready to break Eggman's neck just for talking smack about Omega.

Who is Shadow? Just like every character in this inconsistent series, he's whatever the writers want him to be in any given game. There is no consistent single "Shadow" personality in this series and there never was. There is no "himself" to be.

Before you can have characters be in-character, you have to establish some rules of consistency so we can know what "in-character" for them even is.

[Razule]

I think ya'll are taking this Shadow twitter thing out of proportion.. it's not like he's like that in actual game. He's barely in the game at all really

[antyep]

1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

But what is "himself?"

He's been portrayed inconsistently in nearly every single game. In his own spinoff game, he's written like a rebellious child who just learned what cursing is. In 2006, he's the exact opposite - his character is defined by being a loyal government agent who follows orders straight from the president. In Sonic Rivals, he seems genuinely concerned for Eggman's well-being, but in Sonic Chronicles he's ready to break Eggman's neck just for talking smack about Omega.

Who is Shadow? Just like every character in this inconsistent series, he's whatever the writers want him to be in any given game. There is no consistent single "Shadow" personality in this series and there never was. There is no "himself" to be.

Before you can have characters be in-character, you have to establish some rules of consistency so we can know what "in-character" for them even is.

Kinda hypocritical of SEGA to even have mandates for the comics when they don't know what the characters are...except maybe Sonic.

[Shadowlax]

35 minutes ago, Razule said:

I think ya'll are taking this Shadow twitter thing out of proportion.. it's not like he's like that in actual game. He's barely in the game at all really

I don't think anyone here is taking the twitter thing that seriously. I think the hypothetical discussion about 

1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

But what is "himself?"

Shadow

Quote

He's been portrayed inconsistently in nearly every single game. In his own spinoff game, he's written like a rebellious child who just learned what cursing is. In 2006, he's the exact opposite - his character is defined by being a loyal government agent who follows orders straight from the president. In Sonic Rivals, he seems genuinely concerned for Eggman's well-being, but in Sonic Chronicles he's ready to break Eggman's neck just for talking smack about Omega.

Hmm, its almost as if you described a character evolution. 

Its almost as if he evolved as a character, its almost as if he started out as someone bent on revenge, contemplating his place in the world, finding that place with friends, and cares about those friends, along with other people including villains he normally wouldn't give the time of day. He went from a character who saw no value in people whats so ever to a person who would argue with eggman and metal sonic to stop being evil because he would rather talk it out then have to fight them, because unlike the other character he shows a care for peoples place in the world. Can't vouch for Chronicles , that's a non canon game that doesn't really mean anything that ever character is bad in. So yeah

But what you described is a character evolution.  You described a character evolution , where a character goes through the hero's journey, self actualizes and becomes a different character by the end of it. This is a level of character depth that quite literally the amount of people who have it in game can be counted on one hand in the series, and you just tried to describe it is a a bad thing?

And to answer the question to who is shadow, shadow's the kind of guy who you can ask to help you and with a sigh, almost no questions asked , he probably will and try to find the most effective route as to helping you. Heck, he might have started helping you before you asked, shadow is the kind of guy who will do goddamned anything to solve problem, shadow's the kind of guy actually gets to change and evolve as a character over the course of a series because he gets to contemplate his existence and where he fits in the world, and because of that gains a new found understanding of having to deal with others

I'm not gonna pretend shadow's characterization in the series is.... perfect. No ones is. However, what you described is a character evolution, which requires a character complex enough... to actually go through that. Which he is , one of the few people in the whole series to actually do that. 

What it sounds like you want is static nothing characters that don't change, and if they actually evolve into something meaningful you see that as an inconsistency. And if that's what you want, fine, you have almost literally every one else in sonic , shadow isn't that.  Your idea of characterization solely relies on humor, but anything more  seems to be completely out of your idea range. 

So who is shadow? A guy who doesn't let his situation control him, and  guy who learns, and tries to do better. And that's why people like shadow. Also because he looks dope as shit. 

Quote

 

Before you can have characters be in-character, you have to establish some rules of consistency so we can know what "in-character" for them even is.

Good thing he's already done that, to a degree in which content writers like ian flynn can write him and he seems consistent with who he was in the games. Funny that. 

[antyep]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think anyone here is taking the twitter thing that seriously. I think the hypothetical discussion about 

Shadow

Hmm, its almost as if you described a character evolution. 

Its almost as if he evolved as a character, its almost as if he started out as someone bent on revenge, contemplating his place in the world, finding that place with friends, and cares about those friends, along with other people including villains he normally wouldn't give the time of day. He went from a character who saw no value in people whats so ever to a person who would argue with eggman and metal sonic to stop being evil because he would rather talk it out then have to fight them, because unlike the other character he shows a care for peoples place in the world. Can't vouch for Chronicles , that's a non canon game that doesn't really mean anything that ever character is bad in. So yeah

But what you described is a character evolution.  

And to answer the question to who is shadow, shadow's the kind of guy who you can ask to help you and with a sigh, almost no questions asked , he probably will and try to find the most effective route as to helping you. Heck, he might have started helping you before you asked, shadow is the kind of guy who will do goddamned anything to solve problem, shadow's the kind of guy actually gets to change and evolve as a character over the course of a series because he gets to contemplate his existence and where he fits in the world, and because of that gains a new found understanding of having to deal with others

I'm not gonna pretend shadow's characterization in the series is.... perfect. No ones is. However, what you described is a character evolution, which requires a character complex enough... to actually go through that. Which he is , one of the few people in the whole series to actually do that. 

What it sounds like you want is static nothing characters that don't change, and if they actually evolve into something meaningful you see that as an inconsistency. And if that's what you want, fine, you have almost literally every one else in sonic , shadow isn't that.  Your idea of characterization solely relies on humor, but anything more  seems to be completely out of your idea range. 

So who is shadow? A guy who doesn't let his situation control him, and  guy who learns, and tries to do better. And that's why people like shadow. Also because he looks dope as shit. 

Good thing he's already done that, to a degree in which content writers like ian flynn can write him and he seems consistent with who he was in the games. Funny that. 

It's not exactly good character growth if the character suddenly changes aspects with no explanation what so ever. I mean, sure he seemed to got over Maria after the Shadow game, but we still have no clue as why he would join an organization that killed her in the first place.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

What KINDA keeps Shadow together for me in the SA2- Sonic 2006 era is that he's always first and foremost duty driven.
While whom he considers being worthy to be duty toward may vary, bouncing from Gerald to Maria to Dr. Eggman to GUN to Dark Doom, he's completely submerged in his desire to be useful.
With exception of Sonic Battle and the beginning of his spin off game, as a result of his identity crisis.
That's how I always pictured him.

But yeah, I admit the people he's dutyful toward can feel random at times, especially his relation with Dr. Eggman is strange.
Wish the games went more indepth what Shadow and Eggman really thought of each other since they keep switching from enemies to friends to manipulation tools.
Regardless, the scientists creating and nurturing Shadow brought him up with a strong sense of duty to be useful, hence his quest for " the truth"  so he knows who is worth  fighting for and who isn't.

But after 06  that's thrown out of the window. Now he's just a bully picking fights with Sonic because. Granted, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Rivals loved to make the cast try to murder each other for flimsy reasons all the time too but at least there was some sort of mission going on behind the scenes.
Now without even a basic mission for Shadow to go on, he's just an aggresive bully. The complete opposite of his original character.

That's why I find the degration of characters like Knuckles and Shadow the most frustrating, both of them are extremely motivation and duty driven. So much that their duty almost defines who they are. That's why they're so fascinating to pitch against Sonic, who's carefree and just does whatever. Character contrast!
Sonic Tails and Amy are more instinctive and emotion driven, so they're more moldable to whatever plot the writers throw at them, but Shadow and Knuckles need more structure.
Take their duty away and you're left with 2 punchlines.
Which is what's mostly left of them these days. At least Sonic Forces.......Tries...To do something with them again, even if it's more random and forced then ever before.

[Shadowlax]

4 minutes ago, antyep said:

It's not exactly good character growth if the character suddenly changes aspects with no explanation what so ever. I mean, sure he seemed to got over Maria after the Shadow game, but we still have no clue as why he would join an organization that killed her in the first place.

Because he realized that the people there, no longer had anything to do with what happened to maria, they were long since gone. And while not perfect ( they were gonna scape goat sonic for shadow getting out, that's some dirty shit ) he found that the people there ( rouge and the captain ) and their tools could be help further his goals, trying to bring more peace and safety to the world and make it a better place. So he buries the hatchet, and forgives to varying degrees and moves on with his life. 

Character growth.

Edit: The comic expands on this a bit, in a interesting way, where even though he's buried the hatchet gun solders, don't quite trust him, and it creates interesting tension. If they ever plan to bring gun back ( I doubt it) , this could be an interesting way to go 

[antyep]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Because he realized that the people there, no longer had anything to do with what happened to maria, they were long since gone. And while not perfect ( they were gonna scape goat sonic for shadow getting out, that's some dirty shit ) he found that the people there ( rouge and the captain ) and their tools could be helped further his goals, trying to bring more peace and safety to the world and make it a better place. So he buries the hatchet, and forgives to varying degrees and moves on with his life. 

 

And yet was this explained in any official form? Seems more like something us fans had to figure out ourselves since SEGA isn't so good at dealing with their other characters, other than Sonic.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

11 minutes ago, antyep said:

And yet was this explained in any official form? Seems more like something us fans had to figure out ourselves since SEGA isn't so good at dealing with their other characters, other than Sonic.

Not directly, but it was the entire moral point of Sonic Adventure 2.
Amy's entire speech toward Shadow boiled down to "Humans are kinda stupid but deep inside they're good, learn to forgive them"  and that's part of Shadow's Character arc. To truly understand what Maria meant for him to be an asset to the good of the world. What and whom to fight for. Even if it's your enemies.

This more or less returned in Shadow's own game when the GUN commander became the physical incarnation of this, the stupid emotion driven human making things worse until he learned from his mistakes and decided to team up with Shadow in the end.
I admit Sonic team didn't do a very good job in telling this story, the wonky contuity, translation mishaps and diffrence in culture... But the puzzle pieces are there.

It's a really Japanese thing probably. The whole " be a useful part of society"  is very strongly ingrained in there, which is why Shadow probably works easier for them then for the more individual driven culture of the west.

[Shadowlax]

10 minutes ago, antyep said:

And yet was this explained in any official form? Seems more like something us fans had to figure out ourselves since SEGA isn't so good at dealing with their other characters, other than Sonic.

Yes, Its the plot/ending to shadow the hedgehog. I mean, I get it, the game had like 10 endings, and that shit was a 6 out of 10 game at its absolute best , and its multiple endings and having to grind for them kept people from seeing the true ending, and the only real endings in the game are the good ending into the real ending , with eggman's having happened some point during the adventure.

But that's kinda the plot of his game. There's dialogue in the game where like the president or some shit invites him to his house and shows him he had a kid, or the gun general? Its only on like hard mode apparently? I remember someone telling me on gaf right before gaf went down because of the bad times. While they don't explain everything, that's generally the plot of his game, leading into sonic 06. 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 hour ago, caitash said:

Not yet, but the Playstation store is telling me my download redeem code for the bonus edition avatar outfits isn't valid so not sure if there's a problem with my code or if they're disabled until nearer launch date.

It's definitely locked out. Back when Sly Cooper Thieves in Time came out, I received my copy about three days before release, and the code wasn't valid when I tried to use it for the bonus items. It didn't go active til the proper day of release.

[Dr. Egguman]

Hey guys, I don't know if anyone noticed this video, but I think it's worth to check it anyway
 

 

I confess, I'm shocked. 

[Nakasu]

The game needed more of Egg Gate in my opinion. Mortar Canyon needs more going on in those optional paths, half the time you see where the paths lead, it just leads to the same opening in the middle. It's nice adding a little mystery when you take different pathways. Since the part at 1:35 is nothing but a flat space, you can see everything going on to the point where you can almost see symmetry on the left and right path, there needs to be a lot more going on.

[Dr. Egguman]

Just now, Nakasu said:

The game needed more of Egg Gate in my opinion. Egg Gate is probably the best level in the stage, but it needs more going on in those optional paths, half the time you see where the paths lead, it just leads to the same opening in the middle. It's nice adding a little mystery when you take different pathways. Since the part at 1:35 is nothing but a flat space, you can see everything going on to the point where you can almost see symmetry on the left and right path, there needs to be a lot more going on.

Yeah, also there are some paths that gave me a feeling of incomplete like on Eggman Fortress when Sonic needed to do a long jump to get on it, or maybe it's just the physics that gave me this feeling.

[Razule]

"Woah, we're off planet!"

He.. didn't know he was in a space that whole time?

Huh, that level looks kinda cool.

[StaticMania]

He was probably still unconscious when being transported there by Eggman.

[McGroose]

I can't believe it, someone who's showing off the game before the release date that doesn't suck horribly? Truly this player is one of a kind.

[shdowhunt60]

Jesus, the air boost is ridiculously abusable this time around. You can literally just jump over huge chunks over the level.

[Mars]

I'm probably not going to get this game unless I magically get a Switch or Xbox 1 or PS4, so can someone PM me and tell me who dies? Many thanks. 

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Red Duck said:

I'm probably not going to get this game unless I magically get a Switch or Xbox 1 or PS4, so can someone PM me and tell me who dies? Many thanks. 

This is the spoiler thread. We can just say.

Spoiler

No one. Infinite is sucked away by the Phantom Ruby, but it's not really clear.