Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Besides the obvious reason of why people would choose Cream, the real good reason would be having Cheese try and get Chaos to remember the chao. He is a guardian of chao. So upon seeing he has no interest in the chao or Cheese's pleas, we could get subtle foreshadowing that that Chaos is not the same Chaos we knew.

Exactly. 

Not to mention it'd give Tails someone else to be talking to in that scene and it could act as a proper emotional piece and a small Chekgov's Gun with Omega's appearance in the final battle.

[Osmium]

Wait so can someone give me a quick summary of Infinite's backstory 

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, Shiguy said:

So you mean to tell that this guy

Had better compelling backstory and developement

Then this guy

The guy who's tonally unfitting for series vs the guy who essentially got a supercharged Roboticization maguffin...

When people were suggesting that Infinite was Mephiles 2.0, they weren't kidding! he would of been better off for it

you somehow found a way to make the Shadow recolor LOOK better by comparison by not being "Him"

You fucking found a way to make, fucking this

Look """""""better""""""

Nakamura when you write something bad you don't take a piss straight up in the air and expect to land in the stall, you take piss in the godamn stall and make sure it goes down. How do you manage to a comparsion look worse from it's predecessor.

How do you even?

also stay away from Tails (assuming you weren't the only one who came up with the ideas to make him a pansy) stay far away from Tails.

 

I wasn't aware there were that many people who thought so lowly of Mephiles.

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 

I wouldn't go that far. Mephiles doesn't really have any clear motivation for wanting to fuse with Iblis, or much of a backstory, or any real development.

Both get pissed about being beaten by Shadow tho'.

I forget the exact context to the reveal, but Mephiles is the mind and time altering abilities of Solaris that is angry about being pulled from his dimension and experimented on. He needed to refuse with Iblis to regain their true form and power so he can also get his wanton revenge. Shadow traveling back in time and trapping him in the Scepter of Darkness also meant he had a vendetta against him too.

[SonicLegends]

1 minute ago, ShroomZed said:

Wait so can someone give me a quick summary of Infinite's backstory 

Basically he was a a hired mercenary by Eggman and he calls himself "The Ultimate Mercenary" so quite an ego. He goes over to engage Shadow for destroying his squad only to get pummeled by him and Shadow leaves him with calling him weak and to never show his face to him again and afterward Infinite goes crazy with a maniacal laugh saying he isn't weak and thus we see him putting on the mask and having the Phantom Ruby inserted into his chest.

[dbzfan7]

4 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Wait so can someone give me a quick summary of Infinite's backstory 

Infinite is self proclaimed Ultimate Mercenary. Infinite happy. Shadow beat up Infinite. Infinite sad. Infinite hates that meanie poo Shadow calling him weak. Infinite gets more powerful because of it. That's about it.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, ShroomZed said:

Wait so can someone give me a quick summary of Infinite's backstory 

Eggman hired some mercenaries, led by the self-proclaimed "ultimate mercenary" Infinite (or the guy who would become Infinite, at least). Shadow beats up the mercenaries and proto-Infinite, proto-Infinite cries about being weak and scared, and I guess Eggman gives him the ruby and a Halloween mask so he can pretend he's a big boy who ain't scared of nothing.

[Osmium]

1 minute ago, SonicLegends said:

Basically he was a a hired mercenary by Eggman and he calls himself "The Ultimate Mercenary" so quite an ego. He goes over to engage Shadow for destroying his squad only to get pummeled by him and Shadow leaves him with calling him weak and to never show his face to him again and afterward Infinite goes crazy with a maniacal laugh saying he isn't weak and thus we see him putting on the mask and having the Phantom Ruby inserted into his chest.

 

Just now, dbzfan7 said:

Shadow beat up Infinite. Infinite hates that meanie poo Shadow calling him weak. Infinite gets more powerful because of it. That's about it.

 

Just now, Diogenes said:

Eggman hired some mercenaries, led by the self-proclaimed "ultimate mercenary" Infinite (or the guy who would become Infinite, at least). Shadow beats up the mercenaries and proto-Infinite, proto-Infinite cries about being weak and scared, and I guess Eggman gives him the ruby and a Halloween mask so he can pretend he's a big boy who ain't scared of nothing.

Okay SSMB as a whole needs to go to Fanfic.net and find where they got the story for Forces from 

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Wait so can someone give me a quick summary of Infinite's backstory 

From what I've seen, he is the Leader of a Mercenary Group Eggman hired to protect his lab in Mystic Forest called Team Jackal. Shadow wiped out his group before the stage starts and so Infinite himself was called in to take care of him. Of course, he was no match for Shadow, who is implied to have damaged his eye/face before leaving him while calling him weak. This caused Infinite to have a villainous breakdown and presumably allow himself to be experimented on with the Phantom Ruby so he could become stronger, donning a mask to hide his face.

[antyep]

So...why was Shadow not a bigger part of this game? Sounds to me Shadow should've fought Infinite more than Sonic should

[Meta77]

4 minutes ago, Infinite ∞ said:

A human kisses a hedgehog. That kiss plus Chaos Emerald revive Sonic.

Not only is it gross, but it makes no sense.

Sorry I grew up in the 90s where shows like tmnt . Gargoyles.  animanaics. Roger rabbit.  street sharks that

stuff didnt get complaints so never understood Elise saving sonic as odd in the slightest regardless if someone didnt like it thats there right

22 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

There are a number of reasons, but I think chief among them is that a realistically-proportioned human woman kissing a cartoony hedgehog is just weird and off-putting to almost everyone.

Beleive it or bot there are actual Fans that didnt mind it lol not just me

[Rusty Spy]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah I remember how Knuckles...

...

Silver and Shadow are practically the main characters of the story, Blaze gets some character building pep talk with Silver and sacrifices herself at the end, Amy saves Sonic and furthers Silver's character development, Mephiles actually drives the plot and does things. It's not a lot, but it's more than Forces.

[SonicLegends]

My thoughts on this is that this wouldn't be too bad a backstory if it we had gotten to know Infinite more like why is he a mercenary? Did his squad actually have others like himself that were animals (or were they just robots...) thus why he's so mad at Shadow for taking them out because he cared a little about them? Although in regarding his squad I assumed they were just Eggman's robots, but this isn't actually addressed.

You know what it's funny how episode Shadow is suppose to be where we learn about Infinite, but all it did was just raise more questions. At least we got some over the deadly six being just... there with no substance in Lost World.

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Beleive it or bot there are actual Fans that didnt mind it lol not just me

I believe it. This is why I said almost everyone.

In all of those examples you listed, by the way, the humans and animal characters were drawn in a similar style, which I think does make a difference. The Gargoyles were drawn in a more down-to-earth, realistically proportioned style to match the humans on their show. Meanwhile, the humans in Animaniacs and Roger Rabbit were more exaggerated and wacky-looking. They matched.

I think having a super-realistic human like Elise kissing a cartoony ridiculous-looking animal like Sonic just crosses into a sort of uncanny valley.

[DiamondX]

6 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sorry I grew up in the 90s where shows like tmnt . Gargoyles.  animanaics. Roger rabbit.  street sharks that

stuff didnt get complaints so never understood Elise saving sonic as odd in the slightest regardless if someone didnt like it thats there right

Beleive it or bot there are actual Fans that didnt mind it lol not just me

Let me try to explain in another way.

Do you have an animal?

[Shiguy]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I wouldn't go that far. Mephiles doesn't really have any clear motivation for wanting to fuse with Iblis, or much of a backstory, or any real development.

Both get pissed about being beaten by Shadow tho'.

But you know what the difference here is? Mephiles had payoff worth a damn cause Shadow was acutally there to confront him TWICE

Inprisoning him, and then beats his ass later.

Here Infinite acts like a schoolyard kid who got beaten by a big bully, doesn't actually confront Shadow during the climax nor does he ever interact with him afterwards

That's what i'm more bewilderd by.

[dbzfan7]

10 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sorry I grew up in the 90s where shows like tmnt . Gargoyles.  animanaics. Roger rabbit.  street sharks that

stuff didnt get complaints so never understood Elise saving sonic as odd in the slightest regardless if someone didnt like it thats there right

Beleive it or bot there are actual Fans that didnt mind it lol not just me

I mean we have Donnie crushing on and wanting to be with April, and I never hear a complaint about that. Same with Jessica and Roger Rabbit.....or plants and foxes........

I guess it really comes down to artstyle for some. I personally lean on you either condemn it all or just go with it I guess. I mean if Sonic kissed a human who had the Unleashed human style, would that suddenly make it ok now?

[Meta77]

7 minutes ago, Infinite ∞ said:

Let me try to explain in another way.

Do you have an animal?

I did he died from antifreeze leak 

[Count Mario]

1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

I'll give you that one piece is my top manga atm and the villians are amazing at times.  My hero is a example at many times of villians and heroes simply upset cause they are not strong who h takes away from a good story but mainly so from how many characters bottom line reasons for their paths is just thag

Sticking with the My Hero Academia manga itself and not the mediocre spinoff, the only characters who fit into that description are:

The protagonist's bully/rival - who was a very early arc antagonist and has the mentality is a result of shallow praise from societal flaws. He isn't even a villain but is actually aiming to become an unconventional hero, and getting much character development on that front after much humbling. And you could could him a bit of slack for actually being a teenager.

The main recurring antagonist - who starts out as a petty manchild on-purpose that the story literally calls out on their motivations and tactics of trying to destroy whatever bothers him sucking as a motivation. Thus spurring character development into actually becoming a better villain, to become the greatest villain, hinted to be fueled by a tragic backstory involving dead parents and poverty.

The latter example's characterization literally mocks terrible edgy fanfic-level villains like Infinite who go evil because of temper tantrums.

Your Naruto example from earlier doesn't even work because Pain was a wartime orphan whose best friend/leader died in an ambush. Not that I am arguing he is a great or even good villain, but he didn't become bad just because he lost a fight. A better example would be getting to the bottom of the barrel with an endgame villain like Obito, who tries to commit genocide, start wars, and hypnotize the world because of something as trivial as his middle school crush getting accidentally killed by a teammate in a war. But even then, at least I could give that the bare minimum amount of credit for the trauma caused by a death. But Infinite...

Infinite got a schoolyard beating by the series' first edgy antagonist and never got over it. That's it. He aided Eggman in world domination and tried to destroy the world by summoning a sun because of that.

I know that there's been this habit of mocking Forces' story for being pretentiously edgy by comparing it to action-adventure shonen stories. I see where it comes from to a degree. But it fails at being a good action-adventure shonen story if that is the intent. It is bad action-adventure shonen fanfiction and nothing more. That is what is important to take away from it. 

[DiamondX]

7 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I did he died from antifreeze leak 

Oh great, now I feel worse for asking.

[Meta77]

1 minute ago, Infinite ∞ said:

Oh great, now I feel worse for asking.

Don't feel bad I had good times with him. We put him to sleep so it's fine.

[ShadowSJG]

How would you fix Infinite?

[Multikaris]

58 minutes ago, Rusty Spy said:

06 was bad, but at least it understood the basic concept of build-up and payoff. At least it had an antagonist that wasn't a pathetic angsty teenager that got triggered by being called weak. At least 06 pretended to have stakes and tension. At least 06's saturated cast was given things to do. At least 06 had a fucking ending.

Unlike Lost World and Mania, Forces tried and failed to pretend stakes and tension. And Lost World and Mania’s flat, goofy antagonists that wouldn’t startle an infant and receive not even an attempt at backstory aren’t any better than Infinite.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

How would you fix Infinite?

I'd need a few hours to write out the list of things for that.

[Salamander]

5 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

How would you fix Infinite?

Giving him an ending would be a start.  Giving him a beginning would be even better.