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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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8 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I never saw it. Especially the former. Maybe you saw some opinions I didn't, but it didn't seem to be panned or hated from where I was looking. I usually among the majority never hear anything of the sort of complaints. The series continued on and the interest never died out, and people seem ok with it.

Oh, there were definitely people who didn't like it or at least how it was handled in Season 2. The complaints have died down since it's no longer as big a deal in-universe as it originally was. Plus, there are almost always exceptions to the rule.

 

Also, as far as I know, no one complains about the Rabbits for the reason I explain.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

Oh, there were definitely people who didn't like it or at least how it was handled in Season 2. The complaints have died down since it's no longer as big a deal in-universe as it originally was. Plus, there are almost always exceptions to the rule.

 

Also, as far as I know, no one complains about the Rabbits for the reason I explain.

I mean I suppose I'd have liked to see those when I was watching. I mean I've seen so many times where this happens and yet 06 is like the only time where there is a major complaint. Outside of that you can find countless hook ups that are similar but without issue. It really makes me wonder if Elise were Sonic Unleashed designed, would that suddenly make that complaint less vocal?

Well yeah they're a parody and do the same hook up thing a lot of other toons did.

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29 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

I think that, currently, Sonic Team can't write engaging stories to save their lives.

Their comedies aren't bad because they're comedies; They're bad because they're generally unfunny and lack any subtlety. Colors was just short of winking and going "GEEET IT?" after every joke. Eggman is funny, and Orbot and Cubot are great, but the heroes feel obnoxious. 

Their more serious stories fail too, because they're badly written, hackneyed attempts at drama without generating any real investment in what's going on. Forces repeatedly tells us that the scenario is serious and dire, and has characters moping around and being sad, but it does all of this so clumsily and doesn't really create a world or characters that are worth caring about.

It's not that Sonic Team is better or worse at comedies or dramas; It's that they're fundamentally awful at storytelling, no matter the genre.

Do you think bringing back the writer from the Storybook games would improve anything or is this just all on Sonic Team themselves? I always thought the stories in those games were fairly well written and I really cared for Sharah and Merlina. Shame we never got another game like those two, would’ve liked to have seen Journey to the West next.

Damn it, I hate that Sonic Forces’ story is no better than Colours and Lost World before it. There were some good moments here And there but they’re few are far between. I’m especially gutted about Infinite, turns out he’s as bad as Mephiles.

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4 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

Do you think bringing back the writer from the Storybook games would improve anything or is this just all on Sonic Team themselves? I always thought the stories in those games were fairly well written and I really cared for Sharah and Merlina. Shame we never got another game like those two, would’ve liked to have seen Journey to the West next.

Damn it, I hate that Sonic Forces’ story is no better than Colours and Lost World before it. There were some good moments here And there but they’re few are far between. I’m especially gutted about Infinite, turns out he’s no better than Mephiles.

The storybook games felt a little dry to me. Not awful, for sure, and certainly better than a lot of the games - but I've never really been particularly blown away by their writing.

Honestly, I think Ian Flynn would be our best bet. His takes on the characters are funny without being obnoxious or overbearing, and at the same time serious without feeling like a bunch of edgy tryhards. He manages to hit a nice balance and writes the characters like actual people. And I'd love to see an entire game written by him, because I feel like he's someone who gets these characters.

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4 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

The storybook games felt a little dry to me. Not awful, for sure, and certainly better than a lot of the games - but I've never really been particularly blown away by their writing.

Honestly, I think Ian Flynn would be our best bet. His takes on the characters are funny without being obnoxious or overbearing, and at the same time serious without feeling like a bunch of edgy tryhards. He manages to hit a nice balance and writes the characters like actual people. And I'd love to see an entire game written by him, because I feel like he's someone who gets these characters.

I wouldn't say Flynn's word specifically is a good idea, but taking the story production away from the Japanese would be a start at least.

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Just now, Korke said:

I wouldn't saw Flynn's word specifically is a good idea, but taking the story production away from the Japanese would be a start at least.

I mean, there are great Japanese writers and terrible western writers, so it all comes down to the individual ultimately.

Pontac and Graff aren't exactly stellar writers either, even if I like how they write Eggman specifically most of the time.

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Just now, Super Mechanio said:

I mean, there are great Japanese writers and terrible western writers, so it all comes down to the individual ultimately.

Pontac and Graff aren't exactly stellar writers either, even if I like how they write Eggman specifically most of the time.

Well, they have complete control since almost forever (? not sure?) and that ain't doing us any favors for more than a decade...

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2 hours ago, ShroomZed said:

not have him exist 

How about other than not having him exist? 

 

I also think Infinite was originally going to be a mindless Phantom Ruby monster when development started, but was changed to some edgelord during the development jumble.

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The worst offender of this story to me, the cherry on top of the shit sundae if you will, is just how Chaos didn't do a single thing. He tried to grab Tails, that's it. No boss, barely any acknowledgement of his existence, no purpose, nothing unique, just nothing. Jack shit. 

That is absolutely awful. Sega, you put in the effort to advertise him as one of the big four villains. You put Chaos in those fancy CGI trailers of yours, you put him in promotional art, you gave descriptions of him in your teasers, you make it seem like Chaos will be just as important as the other 3 returning villians and what do you do with him? Nothing!

I can't help but wonder if some of the people who worked on Forces themselves are pissed off at the higher ups. It must have been a good day at the office to find out the character with the incredibly complex model you spent days modeling, texturing and animating doesn't do a fucking thing.

This story is astonishingly dumb. At least Sonic 06 did something with the material it was given, I can't give that to Forces.

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4 hours ago, Infinite ∞ said:

The comics explain it.

 

Wow, this is like FFXV all over again where you needed to watch the anime and the movie to understand the game's story.

47 minutes ago, Balding Spider said:

Which is disgusting anyway you slice it. We shouldn't have to get the full story through another medium when the developers could just do it through the game.

Shadow's first stage explicitly takes place during the prequel comic, you hear Rouge and Omega's conversation. Aside from if you want to see Omega and Infinite fight, you don't actually need to have read it to understand what's going on.

There is some confusion regarding Omega though, in that it's not made entirely clear what happens to him after encountering Infinite. The second stage is an even further flashback and the third stage's dialogue turns out to just be Infinite messing with Shadow with illusions of Rouge and Omega (which btw is kinda neat and something I was hoping to see more of from him as a villain), so not much to gleam there in terms of stuff that's unexplained.

Speaking of, and going back a few pages,

4 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Wait, isn't that exactly the same dialogue from the comic, that took place in the pyramid? So Sonic Team randomly swapped that for a level that makes no sense in this context? Especailly since Rouge then says the base is about to explode, which is that city... Uh.. So pretty sure the pyramid should have been the first level, not the city.

The city is near Green Hill, so the first stage of Episode Shadow is him heading there I guess. In the prequel comic he isn't even seen until the last two pages, having just gotten there. So it's more like the comic took place "during" the DLC than "before" it.

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I've read about Infinite's origin now and boy, do I like Infinite even more after the revelations. His manner in the game makes so much sense when he's so insecure to begin with.

He also feels like such a Japanese-centric character. They're gonna eat him up even if he doesn't have a past with the Avatar (although they are ultimately mirrors).

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2 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

How about other than not having him exist? 

If there was no choice but to have him in then make him a badnik who was powered by the phantom ruby. Unlike in the final game he doesn't pull 3 million powers out his arse, he's programmed to work extremely efficiently with a very limited set of powers that Eggman has to change out. Like at one point his speed is incredibly great but can't do much else, and then with another moveset he's incredibly resilient but not good elsewhere. Due to this way he functions he's programmed to work really well against Sonic one on one every time they meet, but later on when Sonic is with others their multiple different movesets overwhelms Infinite's way of functioning. He gets broken apart because of this and the phantom ruby is taken by Metal Sonic instead who then gets boosted by it's power. Metal Sonic never much liked Infinite in the first place and is happy to see him go, as Metal found him redundant.

Also he doesn't act like an edgelord. 

I don't much like what I wrote, but it's something. Like I said I prefer Infinite gone all together. 

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14 minutes ago, antyep said:

Do we even know what was SoA’s original plan for this game?

Nothing aside from them facepalming and denouncing the idea of a customizable Avatar when it was pitched by SoJ.

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I think Infinite would’ve been so much better if he was a good character turned evil, a tragic figure. In fact that was the most common theory back then, that he was Avatar’s friend and was suddenly kidnapped by Dr Eggman and turned into a Phantom Ruby experiment called Infinite. It’s still cliche, but if the execution was done right it could’ve been decent at least. 

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1 minute ago, KHCast said:

And they still never delved into the "we've met before" shit between Infinite and the Avatar. Neato

Why didn't infinite ever even address his beef with shadow. 

I dunno , seems pretty important considering its why he is the way he is

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Just now, Shadowlax said:

Why didn't infinite ever even address his beef with shadow. 

I dunno , seems pretty important considering its why he is the way he is

Cause Sega/sonic team be lazy/incompetent regarding well written engaging or creative fun plots 

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4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

And they still never delved into the "we've met before" shit between Infinite and the Avatar. Neato

Imagine if Infinite mistook the Avatar for Shadow the same way Amy mistook Shadow and Silver for Sonic.

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Just now, KHCast said:

Cause Sega/sonic team be lazy/incompetent regarding well written engaging or creative fun plots 

But like, him having beef with shadow is more interesting than anything he did with sonic or avatar. He has actual beef , as simple as it may have been instigated with shadow, shadow whipped out his crew beat his ass, and insulted his honor. Screw avatar, sonic and shadow should been the protagonists of this game, if that was going to be the plot

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10 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

I think Infinite would’ve been so much better if he was a good character turned evil, a tragic figure. In fact that was the most common theory back then, that he was Avatar’s friend and was suddenly kidnapped by Dr Eggman and turned into a Phantom Ruby experiment called Infinite. It’s still cliche, but if the execution was done right it could’ve been decent at least. 

To me, the same should have been done for the Hard-Boiled Heavies And Deadly Six. 

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Just now, Miragnarok said:

To me, the same should have been done for the Hard-Boiled Heavies And Deadly Six. 

I don't see how that would work for the Hard Boiled Heavies aside from rehashing Gamma's efforts to release his siblings' animals.

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