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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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Just now, Miragnarok said:

To me, the same should have been done for the Hard-Boiled Heavies And Deadly Six. 

I don't see how that would work for the Hard Boiled Heavies aside from rehashing Gamma's efforts to release his siblings' animals.

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2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But like, him having beef with shadow is more interesting than anything he did with sonic or avatar. He has actual beef , as simple as it may have been instigated with shadow, shadow whipped out his crew beat his ass, and insulted his honor. Screw avatar, sonic and shadow should been the protagonists of this game, if that was going to be the plot

Yeah your point? It COULD have been interesting but wasnt since they didn't actually do anything of note with it, and was just thrown in for obligatory drama.

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7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

And they still never delved into the "we've met before" shit between Infinite and the Avatar. Neato

I'm pretty sure that turned out to just be this scene, with Infinite blasting dudes in City Zone and the avatar character being too scared to fight back.

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Just now, Diogenes said:

I'm pretty sure that turned out to just be this scene, with Infinite blasting dudes in City Zone and the avatar character being too scared to fight back.

Huh. Forgot about that. Guess Infinite can remember people better than shadow. Guess that's something 

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So basically whatever their idea was probably gonna be a little more descent than what we have now, huh?

Edit: Maybe it would been interesting if Nack became Infinite what with the mercenary thing coming out of nowhere 

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19 minutes ago, Count Mario said:

I don't see how that would work for the Hard Boiled Heavies aside from rehashing Gamma's efforts to release his siblings' animals.

Yes. Except this time, the power cores are actual Mobians. Or even humans. With the Heavy King, go farther. Establish the Ruby as slowly taking over him. They could struggle with both the Ruby and Eggman.

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8 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Yes. Except this time, the power cores are actual Mobians. Or even humans. With the Heavy King, go farther. Establish the Ruby as slowly taking over him. They could struggle with both the Ruby and Eggman.

I don't think people are going to care about random anthros or jarringly out of place humans being recurring victims for Eggman. The only way to make that work is to have each boss be a roboticized established supporting character. But then that just makes their roles as minor as the cameos from The Hooligans, so it is an unnecessary means of effort. The Heavy King A.I. going rogue from the Phantom Ruby's influence is virtually the same thing with minimal difference besides a forgettable attempt at sympathy.

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2 minutes ago, Count Mario said:

I don't think people are going to care about random anthros or jarringly out of place humans being recurring victims for Eggman. The only way to make that work is to have each boss be a roboticized established supporting character. But then that just makes their roles as minor as the cameos from The Hooligans, so it is an unnecessary means of effort. The Heavy King A.I. going rogue from the Phantom Ruby's influence is virtually the same thing with minimal difference besides a forgettable attempt at sympathy.

Or, have the established character be unlocked with each slain Heavy.

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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Or, have the established character be unlocked with each slain Heavy.

So five new playable characters when it's already presumably difficult to include one new character outside the main trio that can only be played as in five new non-canon campaigns each with level design accomodating as many as eight playable characters either simultaneously or with whole new alternate acts?

 

That's... a bit much for the only modern authentic attempt at a Classic Sonic game besides Sonic Advance.

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16 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

What gets me is how his motivation is completely dropped lol.

It's two different sets of writers worked on this lol.

Thinking about it, they probably came up with Infinite's backstory after they wrote the rest of the game.  That's why it's just a limp reflection of the Avatar's backstory, and doesn't explain anything about how he really became Infinite at all.

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Yeah I got a feeling this game wasn't the game, they wanted it to be, had to come up with something to appease fans. So I wouldn't be surprised, if the pissed at shadow version of infinite, if he does return, is the one you get 

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

I'm pretty sure that turned out to just be this scene, with Infinite blasting dudes in City Zone and the avatar character being too scared to fight back.

He says something about the look in the Avatar's eyes being familiar during the boss battle, after already recognizing the Avatar in the previous cutscene.

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30 minutes ago, FFWF said:

Thinking about it, they probably came up with Infinite's backstory after they wrote the rest of the game.  That's why it's just a limp reflection of the Avatar's backstory, and doesn't explain anything about how he really became Infinite at all.

You think they suddenly realised Infinite didn’t have a backstory so they had to quickly make one up for the Shadow DLC? If so, LOL. 

Then again there’s the comic tomorrow. Not sure how that will improve Infinite’s story there but we’ll see. 

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I just feel like I should point out that someone wishing to be stronger is a decent idea for a backstory. Even if Forces manages to botch it up, which I'm sure it probably did. There's plenty of characters that's driven through a selfish want of more power and wishing to become stronger than their adversaries. Vegeta, arguably one of the most popular Dragon Ball characters is entirely based around this idea of constantly pushing himself further and further to become stronger than Goku, to the point he allowed himself to succumb to mind control in order to turn evil again and forget things he loved and cared about like his family just so he could attempt to recover the drive to be stronger than Goku.

There is an arc in here somewhere, and a good one. There's plenty of reasons why Infinite could be a mercenary for Eggman here without him being a downright evil villain (I mean assuming this is between the time Sonic is captured and freed, that means Eggman is in control of the world), that means you either get with the program and do as he says, or you suffer the consequences. There's an interesting shades of gray idea here that not everyone had the courage to rise up with Knuckles as a resistance member, there's probably plenty of characters who just played the hand they were dealt and went along with what Eggman said. That is an interesting idea, and even better, would've been a good contrast between the Avatar and Infinite. One is a citizen who was forced into Eggman's rule and rose up while the other is one who went along with it for their own safety and survival.

But again, that's what it ended up being, an idea. One that's seemingly been completely botched again.  

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I'm fine having no story at this point over getting more garbage like this. It's not like Sega ever really proved that they're capable of making good storytelling in Sonic games so I don't feel like anything valuable has been lost.

If they can stick to more simple plots but ramp up the character interaction I think that'd be fun to see. I don't give a shit about Sonic stories but will agree I always like seeing the cast mingle with each other so I want more of that and little else.

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34 minutes ago, Sean said:

I'm fine having no story at this point over getting more garbage like this. It's not like Sega ever really proved that they're capable of making good storytelling in Sonic games so I don't feel like anything valuable has been lost.

If they can stick to more simple plots but ramp up the character interaction I think that'd be fun to see. I don't give a shit about Sonic stories but will agree I always like seeing the cast mingle with each other so I want more of that and little else.

What we need to see is better use of Sega's strengths. Sonic should be written over in the States, where Ian Flynn can sit down and write some good stories. I understand that SoJ would be averse to relinquishing so much control, but they could compromise by saying "we want these levels. Mr. Flynn, write a story around them." Not the perfect solution but the most realistic one. That seems like an evolution of what they did with Forces. 

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3 hours ago, McGroose said:

The worst offender of this story to me, the cherry on top of the shit sundae if you will, is just how Chaos didn't do a single thing. He tried to grab Tails, that's it. No boss, barely any acknowledgement of his existence, no purpose, nothing unique, just nothing. Jack shit. 

That is absolutely awful. Sega, you put in the effort to advertise him as one of the big four villains. You put Chaos in those fancy CGI trailers of yours, you put him in promotional art, you gave descriptions of him in your teasers, you make it seem like Chaos will be just as important as the other 3 returning villians and what do you do with him? Nothing!

 

Again, if Cream and Cheese weren't conspiciously absent and Knuckles had more screentime/presence, that probably wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

2 hours ago, ShroomZed said:

If there was no choice but to have him in then make him a badnik who was powered by the phantom ruby. Unlike in the final game he doesn't pull 3 million powers out his arse, he's programmed to work extremely efficiently with a very limited set of powers that Eggman has to change out. Like at one point his speed is incredibly great but can't do much else, and then with another moveset he's incredibly resilient but not good elsewhere. Due to this way he functions he's programmed to work really well against Sonic one on one every time they meet, but later on when Sonic is with others their multiple different movesets overwhelms Infinite's way of functioning. 

See, I think this would've been far more indicative of his name. And it would parallel nicely with Buddy's Wispon.

Though it also reminds me of how Emerl was defeated in Sonic X. Dang it, why the heck isn't Cream in this game?

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Honestly, I'm so cynical towards Sonic stories at this point that I don't care either way but if this their attempt making an actual conflict then it can just go die in a fire.

It's such a shame that a series with such a vibrant and interesting setting and cast has been consistently squandered due to the creators being as half assed as possible.

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7 hours ago, Mauricius said:

So infinite is evil not because he has a troubled past, not because of the Ruby's influence, but literally just because Shadow punched him in the face and called him weak. I thought I was prepared for any new disappointments from this game but this by far exceeded my expectations.

All that was missing from his pouting about getting his ass handed to him from Shadow is filtering it through crytype text.

,,“II.....I'ms hhaki,,inng.....Me??!  eM. ...Aff,ra aid!? ?.,.. Uqgh. :((((( P ath  heticc? eM....he's caali..lnng; MEE weaakk!? No!!  I ’m  nOtO weaak...II’’m nott weak! ;-; I'...I'm nopt!..!.  .....I’M NOTT EWAK!!!,! uuUUUAAAAA.AG,RH!”” 

Quite late to the party but wow at that Infinite backstory. Shadow being the reason for his start of darkness could had been an okay jumping point into something meaningful, but that one interaction between them being the lighter that blows up the keg makes Infinite come off as extremely petty and childish. And as other said, even though his main beef is with Shadow, that event in the DLC is their entire extent of their relationship. Shadow's mostly gone in the main game and Infinite spends the rest of his time beating up and taunting Sonic and the Avatar.

All of this hype and promotion behind a villain who turned out to be the way he is because he is a bitter saltlord punkass. What a sight to behold.

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