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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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2 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Doesn't matter dude. Tails LW at least knows how to do his stuff. He avoid robot programation by himself and was able to revert Eggman's machine. In other words, even if Tails a pathetic fighter, he was still useful for Sonic.

In Forces he IS useless. He can't even do what he does best...he has no use for anybody.

That's hardly competent though. That's being a tool for the plot and nothing more. Even then the machine would not have even been a thing as Sonic coulda just saved the day the minute the Zeti turned on Eggman right there and then. Making that machine a non issue. The only reason the game didn't just end there was because of Tails being a complete liability.

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5 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Gonna repeat myself saying that it doesn't matter. Not the point.

Lol the writters could just make Sonic the only character in LW and make him "fix" his machine just by spindashing it. I'm not talking about this. What I'm talking is that Tails was there and somehow he was usefull.

Useful to me does not automatically mean competent. Chip was useful in opening the Gaia temples and useless for everything else. Once he got his memory back, that was when he became actually competent. Especially when being of help is for one small thing, and nothing else. 

What I do agree with is that he had absolutely no use at all in Sonic Forces, as well as Sonic Generations. So in Lost World he at least does something. Even if you have to waddle through a bunch of crap, bitching, and Tails being useless for the entire journey except for the end. I mean at least chip opened the gaia temples over the course of the journey. So he had to be there. Tails unlike Chip could skip out the entire adventure til the end. The story actually would improve for it as we'd get Sonic and Eggman teaming up and perhaps doing something this time, and 100% less annoying bitchfest bullshit.

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2 minutes ago, SaberX said:

Dude, you just running in circles and keep repeating the word "competent".

Take a good look in the example you cited and compared to Tails in Forces. Tails in Forces is not useful at all.

I'm not arguing that Tails was useful at all in Sonic Forces. He isn't. I'm saying he's barely useful in Lost World too. It's more than Forces though. But if we really want to go with semantics, it was Tails who basically told OC what to do when the sun was coming down. So basically by that logic, he saved everyone by telling Buddy to wish the sun away.

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8 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

 But if we really want to go with semantics, it was Tails who basically told OC what to do when the sun was coming down. So basically by that logic, he saved everyone by telling Buddy to wish the sun away.

This. He also figured out the Phantom Ruby's weakness, whatever it was.

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Just now, SaberX said:

Barely is still useful.

With all that ideas, I can clearly see what people can expect from Tails in the next games. Tails doesn't remember how fly and now its up to Super Sonic to save him. And by the end of the game he will say "We did it!".

Tails telling Buddy to wish the fake Sun away when all hope is lost is also "Barely" useful too if we are going by semantics.

I prefer to think in this game while the big battle is going on and even Charmy is helping out, Tails is flying around in circles punching the air pretending to be tough and saying. "I'm Helping" In a Ralph Wiggum voice.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

May I ask: why exactly does everyone seem to be making a big deal about Charmy here?

Because he is even younger than Tails, typically not as capable as Tails, and yet for some reason he is allowed to do things Tails isn't for some reason. I like Charmy helping like that, no offense to his character at all. My issue is I can't even fathom what the excuse for not letting Tails in on the action anymore when Charmy is allowed to be.

2 minutes ago, SaberX said:

I'm surprised people are not worried about that. About whos gonna be the next.

 

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

May I ask: why exactly does everyone seem to be making a big deal about Charmy here?

A mechanical genius who shared countles adventures with Sonic, polishing his skills and abilities in the process as well as building his self-confidence, suddenly runs scared of everything in his path, even when he faced worse. While some kid bee is braver in a very dire situation he probably never had to face before. Seems logical.

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33 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Because he is even younger than Tails, typically not as capable as Tails, and yet for some reason he is allowed to do things Tails isn't for some reason. I like Charmy helping like that, no offense to his character at all. My issue is I can't even fathom what the excuse for not letting Tails in on the action anymore when Charmy is allowed to be.

Because character regression on a main character for drama sake, that's why. Charmy, on the other hand, is a side character that isn't in the focus at all and is a member of both the Resistance and CDA proper. So ironically, the answer to your question is because he's not plot important. Plus, I'm not sure where the notion of him apparently being useless comes from anyway.

 

 

For better or worse, there was a huge push to have Sonic be the true star again after Shadow's game and 06. In order to do make this work, they have Sonic do most of the physical stuff in addition to integrating the Boost formula from Rush into 3d(something only Shadow and Blaze can replicate) and downsizing the cast. Tails is the only character that always shows up specifically due to both being Sonic's sidekick and due to his expertise on technology making him always useful against Eggman.

However, as these games have gone on, people have started to get weary of this, with Lost World not really doing many favors due to it's questionable characterization and storytelling in areas. So this game, where Eggman is supposed to be taking over the world and his new ally Infinite manages to capture Sonic, required the rest of the major cast(plus Silver and Omega, but minus Cream & Cheese, for some reason) to be present and active(or "active" in some of their cases). Unfortunately for Tails, this partially meant there couldn't be as much emphasis on him compared to the previous games and Sonic getting taken out because he couldn't help him meant he "lost it" and couldn't do much.

Honestly, I feel like the cut corners with the story is also a major reason as to why he comes off as "useless," since Knuckles is the leader of the Resistance with no explanation as to how/why he got the role and the Wisp-Ons are never explained(as far as I know). Both of these things just screams that Tails should've been involved/attributed, but it never really gets established. So it's not that he's "useless" so much as he has a lot of egregious blanks and bad moments that add up.

 

With that said, though I genuinely think him being afraid of Chaos 0 ended up being interpreted as a far bigger deal with all those other issues than it needed, I agree that him literally shouting for Sonic(who he thinks is dead, mind you) to help him while cowering at a relatively wide distance for escape was definitely a step too far. 

 

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Ok

Just noticed something, you know when shadow, does his signature " kick the shit out of you " move on fake shadow. After that he explains the sonic the whole deal, infnite's illusionary powers and such. He then mentioned that rouge... explained to him, how infinite's powers worked. 

This is months after Sonic was missing. 

So either rouge knew what infinite's weakness was and didn't tell anyone

Or rouge new shadow was alive and not evil and didn't tell anyone , or both

 

That's a plot hole,

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19 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

A mechanical genius who shared countles adventures with Sonic, polishing his skills and abilities in the process as well as building his self-confidence, suddenly runs scared of everything in his path, even when he faced worse. While some kid bee is braver in a very dire situation he probably never had to face before. Seems logical.

To be fair, that's consistent with his(Charmy's) characterization compared to Tails(and Cream). Tails alleged ineptitude here may have made it a little too apparent, sure, but that's not really on Charmy. 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure where the notion of him apparently being useless comes from anyway.

 

 

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1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

That kid bee is also apart of a detective agency and if he's not afraid of a giant alligator, he shouldn't be afraid of anything in this game.

Can they get to that section in Heroes?

 

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44 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Ok

Just noticed something, you know when shadow, does his signature " kick the shit out of you " move on fake shadow. After that he explains the sonic the whole deal, infnite's illusionary powers and such. He then mentioned that rouge... explained to him, how infinite's powers worked. 

This is months after Sonic was missing. 

So either rouge knew what infinite's weakness was and didn't tell anyone

Or rouge new shadow was alive and not evil and didn't tell anyone , or both

 

That's a plot hole,

The story was the one thing that this game potentially had going for it, but it falls short at every hurdle. Jesus...

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How to fix to the 'Sonic vs Infinite' scene: it starts with Tails and some people (Mobians, to be precise) being surrounded by some robots. Tails tells the people to get to safety (which they do after a few of them worry about his safety) and pulls one of his weapons out. However, Sonic steps in to save the day before the two-tailed fox could do anything. Sonic asks Tails if he is alright, to which he responds, "I'm fine, though I could have handled these robots myself".

Sonic (not teasingly) chuckles and (in the same style as the original cutscene) turns to face Eggman, who announces his newest creation which, to Sonic and Tails' surprise, is not a robot this time. Sonic charges at the new enemy, only for him to step out of the way. Tails, initially believing the enemy to be faster than Sonic, decides to scan him. But the readings (as we can see here) are indecipherable even for an 8-year-old genius.

Sonic gets beaten around by clones (Shadow, Metal Sonic, Zavok and Chaos) and Tails, instead of standing there and doing nothing, decides to join the fight, ignoring Sonic's protests and objections. Tails is intercepted and beaten by the new enemy, but the fox is not ready to give up just yet. He repeatedly, yet unsuccessfully, tries to save Sonic and gets temporarily knocked out. Sonic tries to get to Tails, but the blue hedgehog winds up getting badly beaten up. With his body on the ground and the stretch of his hand reaching out towards his little brother, Sonic calls out his name and faints.

Tails wakes up to find the new enemy carrying Sonic and, in his terrible condition, tries to stop the group of enemies and go after them. But it was already too late. Unable to fly properly, Tails sees the group of enemies take to the sky and disappear in a flash of light. With tears in his eyes, Tails painfully calls out Sonic's name, having lost his big brother. We then see glimpses of Eggman taking over the world, with people (including Team Sonic) unsuccessfully trying to win and eventually losing hope.

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