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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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Just now, dbzfan7 said:

Do you have Sonic Mania? You could play that instead.

I want a good 3d game. 

Classic sonic is fine. I like 3d sonic, I want  to play as a sonic character, preferably shadow, in a game that is 3d that is good. 

I would trade these memes for a good 3d sonic game. 

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Just now, Shadowlax said:

I want a good 3d game. 

Classic sonic is fine. I like 3d sonic, I want  to play as a sonic character, preferably shadow, in a game that is 3d that is good. 

I would trade these memes for a good 3d sonic game. 

Do you mean Big's Big Fishing Adventure 3?.....which the twitter will probably be using to try and poke fun at those who want that kind of Sonic game again.

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4 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Do you mean Big's Big Fishing Adventure 3?.....which the twitter will probably be using to try and poke fun at those who want that kind of Sonic game again.

Those jokes are getting less and less funny to the community, I would imagine. 

 

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Wow. HAHAHA to think I tried to tell people to give this game a shot. I apologize. Credits are rolling on my TV now (cant skip) and... holy Christ... how awful could they mess this up?

The game is like, they messed with variables in the engine and made movement, gravity, control, everything... just.... OFF. 

The levels, with 2 exceptions (Sonic's chemical plant and jungle) were forgettable and short. The music was decent in some cases but I had to try to like it. The story was wayyyy too quick and wayyyy too jumpy between characters, plots, and "twists".

Overall, this is actually as bad as 06 for me. Maybe worse. 06 had great music and HONESTLY a better story execution (really? yes!) 

EDIT: actually, screw it, it is worse than 06 to me. I had fun with 06 despite it's flaws. This was like pulling teeth

I've always been an Adventure fan, so even Mania was only great to me as a quality product, the nostalgia wasn't there in the same way it would be for many of you. At least there I could feel the love, care, and skill that made the game what it is: quality and a classic. This... it almost feels worse than a mobile game. It's like going to a barbecue restaurant and ordering a salad. It's not satisfying, it was cheap and low cal so you don't feel as burnt, but you keep regretting that you didn't order anything worthwhile or special. 

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33 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

I think it was because it came off as tone deaf to reference jokes about Sonic when Sonic's latest 3D outing kind of is a joke.

Fair enough.

32 minutes ago, Razule said:

See, the thing about memes is that they become cringey after a while. Sanic is a very, very old meme. It wreaks of "how do you do, fellow kids" feels.

Lol.

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To all the Forces defenders who are coming around and admitting to the game not being that good... Hey, thanks. I know it's not easy to publicly pull an about-face on something that you've been defending for months. 

Honestly, I respect you for being willing to look at this product critically enough to have a change of mind about it. And I sincerely hope that in the future, you remember what Forces ended up being like, and take a more skeptical, cautious view of Sonic Team's next big promise.

I hope the next Sonic game you actually buy - whatever it may be - is a good one.

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12 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

To all the Forces defenders who are coming around and admitting to the game not being that good... Hey, thanks. I know it's not easy to publicly pull an about-face on something that you've been defending for months. 

Honestly, I respect you for being willing to look at this product critically enough to have a change of mind about it. And I sincerely hope that in the future, you remember what Forces ended up being like, and take a more skeptical, cautious view of Sonic Team's next big promise.

I hope the next Sonic game you actually buy - whatever it may be - is a good one.

What about the ones that are completely satisfied by it and hope more games like it come out?

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15 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Why are you including the Classic games in this, it doesn't really make sense...

I don't enjoy replaying the classic levels with say Tails or Knuckles. It feels overly repetitive in the same way Heroes or Forces does. I prefer say how SA2 does - lots of assets are reused so there's usually a Hero and Dark version of a level, but they feel unique enough that I can buy that it's a separate stage or area. Generations did this fairly well too between Classic and Modern. But I think Forces has areas blend together like the classics and Heroes, so it feels repetitive as you continually return to different versions of stages you've already been.

Quote

I think infnite's concept is kind of ruined and done, I mean there is a chance it might not be done, but we'll get to that at the end. 

To put it simply, him with the phantom ruby is entirely too powerful to just have around, yes granted sonic and buddy got him, and he never fought shadow after loosing to him, but infinite summoned a damn sun and the only think that could stop it, broke afterwards. He's like to powerful , sonic has some tough customers heck with shadow's new found chaos emerald-less time stop he's basically dio now. But the ability create suns out of nothing, is beyond anything that you can really do on a normal basis. You can't make that guy a normal enemy because the question then becomes " He can just charge up and summon another sun and burn everyone to death " 

So then you go, ok ok. Phantom Ruby got destroyed, then he can just be a normal egg man general. Ok, so then he's just a dude, he's just furry deathstroke, and he doesn't seem that formidable. The only thing making him formidable, was his new powers, with those gone, he has nothing. Now sure, Shadow's super good at fighting so using shadow as a barometer for everyone elses fighting prowess in sonic is a bit weird. But even still Shadow made quick work of the guy, and doubt sonic or anyone else couldn't either. 

You could have him like... be a guy who is piloting eggmans robots sometimes... but at that point why not just make it a robot.  Eggman can make him like a special fighting suit? maybe they do some weird body horror thing and eggman keeps augmenting him every time he gets beat?

I think the real answer though, this game might be swept under the rug if infinite is bothered to be reintroduced 

I'd be perfectly happy with Infinite sans Phantom Ruby. I think he'd be fun as a sort of counterpart for Metal Sonic. What I like is his arrogant thug personality, what his abilities are isn't a big deal to me.

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4 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

I'd be perfectly happy with Infinite sans Phantom Ruby. I think he'd be fun as a sort of counterpart for Metal Sonic. What I like is his arrogant thug personality, what his abilities are isn't a big deal to me.

I would as well, ( I would also like if his beef was with shadow more than anyone else and he was like trying to one up him. Like I feel like his " ultimate mercenary line" could be something they can use in that regard ) , but its kinda like... ok so whats kinda the point of this entire game?

You know what, sure just bring him back, just sweep this game under the proverbial rug. Because the game made clear what its point was, to have something on the market. No need to let interesting concepts go to waste

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I can't remember where the Shadow DLC stuff was located in here so I can't quote it, but for some reason I imagine Nack giving Infinite this speech in response to his backstory.

Quote

Nack: That's it? That's ya big reason fer becoming Eggman's lackey? Tha's just freaking sad.

Infinite: What.

Nack: Come on! Ya get yer keester handed ta ya ONCE and ya start whinin' like a lil' baby and begging for big daddy Eggman to save ya skin! Where's ya merc's pride ya fox-eared pansy?

Infinite: *insert threatening thing while clearly angry*

Nack: Oh ya got more power than me, big deal! There's always ways ta get power, but ya pride as a merc's one thing you can't just get back after throwin' it away ta tha garbage! How many times ya think I've been trashed by those goody two shoes eh? TONS! Yet at the end o' the day, I always get back up and go do my business as usual, WITH my pride.

 

For the record, my mental image of Nack might be a tad different from how he's canonically portrayed due to me not really knowing what his canonical portrayal is like.

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1 hour ago, Super Mechanio said:

To all the Forces defenders who are coming around and admitting to the game not being that good... Hey, thanks. I know it's not easy to publicly pull an about-face on something that you've been defending for months. 

Honestly, I respect you for being willing to look at this product critically enough to have a change of mind about it. And I sincerely hope that in the future, you remember what Forces ended up being like, and take a more skeptical, cautious view of Sonic Team's next big promise.

I hope the next Sonic game you actually buy - whatever it may be - is a good one.

I understand your sentiment here... but judging by your post history this comes off as extremely backhanded toward people who are enjoying the game, whether you intended that or not. Even posts worded sincerely like this come off as putting a clear, yet unnecessary divide between people and just further discourages people speaking up about the game in a more positive manner than your own standards suggest they do. I suggest you stop doing that.

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43 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

I don't enjoy replaying the classic levels with say Tails or Knuckles. It feels overly repetitive in the same way Heroes or Forces does. I prefer say how SA2 does - lots of assets are reused so there's usually a Hero and Dark version of a level, but they feel unique enough that I can buy that it's a separate stage or area. Generations did this fairly well too between Classic and Modern. But I think Forces has areas blend together like the classics and Heroes, so it feels repetitive as you continually return to different versions of stages you've already been.

I mean it doesn't really make sense because the idea of replaying stages in the Classic games is entirely optional as opposed to Heroes where it is required. The different characters just being "difficulty" modes basically instead of being given their own level details or stuff.

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9 minutes ago, Sean said:

I understand your sentiment here... but judging by your post history this comes off as extremely backhanded toward people who are enjoying the game, whether you intended that or not. Even posts worded sincerely like this come off as putting a clear, yet unnecessary divide between people and just further discourages people speaking up about the game in a more positive manner than your own standards suggest they do. I suggest you stop doing that.

Oh, no, no. Like I said, those who are enjoying it are already happy, so I mean... they kinda don't need a pat on the back right now? Offering a kind word to people who are disappointed shouldn't imply that I have a problem with people who aren't.

I get that there've been people who dislike the game (or like it) that have made their opinions weirdly personal and have attacked others for their stance on the game. And hey, as a mod, you've probably dealt with those people multiple times over the past few months. But given my post history, you'll see that I've never done that. I've always believed in attacking the game, not the game's fans.

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6 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Oh, no, no. Like I said, those who are enjoying it are already happy, so I mean... they kinda don't need a pat on the back right now? Offering a kind word to people who are disappointed shouldn't imply that I have a problem with people who aren't.

I get that there've been people who dislike the game (or like it) that have made their opinions weirdly personal and have attacked others for their stance on the game. And hey, as a mod, you've probably dealt with those people multiple times over the past few months. But given my post history, you'll see that I've never done that. I've always believed in attacking the game, not the game's fans.

So if it's about the game and not the fans, why are you praising people for expressing negative opinions about the game?

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12 minutes ago, Sean said:

So if it's about the game and not the fans, why are you praising people for expressing negative opinions about the game?

It wasn't for expressing negative opinions about the game. It was for being willing to publicly renounce a position that they'd defended, some of them for months. I know that's not easy; There's a risk of being met with scorn or spiteful "I told you so"s by the people you were formerly arguing with. And I've seen a lot of these people say things like, "Go on, I expect people to rub this in my face now" in their forum posts and status updates. And rather than do that, I just wanted to give them a little encouragement. That's all.

But for the sake of clarity, I want to say - clearly and unambiguously - that I don't bear any ill will to people who do enjoy the game. I obviously didn't mean any backhanded insults against anyone. And I believe my post history, which you yourself brought up, absolutely reflects this.

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No offense, @Super Mechanio, but you do a pretty terrible job of "attacking the game" when you're telling people who have "come around" to your line of thinking "thanks." This doesn't sound encouraging at all. It's condescending. Maybe choose your wording more carefully so you're not running the risk of getting under people's skins OR on our bad side.

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20 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

No offense, @Super Mechanio, but you do a pretty terrible job of "attacking the game" when you're telling people who have "come around" to your line of thinking "thanks." This doesn't encouraging at all. It's condescending. Maybe choose your wording more carefully so you're not running the risk of getting under people's skins OR on our bad side.

Hey, don't worry about it. No offense taken; I know you didn't mean any.

But yeah, I'm sorry about that, I didn't mean to come across that way at all. Thanks for letting me know that's how I came across, because I honestly didn't know.

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So I managed to resolve the technical issues on the PC and cancelled my refund. Not that I necessarily regret that, but as someone who gave the game a fair chance, I was... underwhelmed. I'm bad at full-on reviews, so I'm just gonna get nitpicky on the story, cause that's what I was looking forward to:

  • Absolutely nothing about Infinite is really explained in the main course of the game. Sure, its covered by Episode Shadow and today's prequel comic, but why should be rely on tertiary media to explain the basis of the story? Destiny got blasted for doing that. Infinite seems kinda simplistic (got beaten by Shadow and decided to make himself more powerful), which is better than Mephiles I suppose. He wasn't very memorable to me, but he wasn't laughably bad either.
  • So when Sonic is released from the Death Egg, there's a bunch of other prisoners too. As far as we know, they don't escape alongside Sonic. So did they just get left there when the Resistance blew up the Death Egg later? Between this, losing "80% of our Forces" in 'Operation Big Wave' (cringe), the Resistance Fleet being all but wiped out in about 30 seconds, Rookie's squad getting slaughtered by Infinite, Shadow killing Team Jackal, and probably the final battle with the clones, this game has got to have the highest body count of any Sonic game to date (if only because Central City was evacuated in seconds before it was nuked in Shadow)
  • Classic Sonic. He's about as egregious as we expected. He barely serves any purpose other than being a proxy Sonic for Tails. He didn't even get many levels (none of which were any good). Didn't Iizuka say that Forces Classic Sonic and Generations Classic Sonic were different Classic Sonics? But then everyone recognizes him immediately, with a cheap Generations joke forced in (oh God I made one too). And Tails has this constant hard-on for him despite doing very little, tearful farewell and everything.
  • You can tell the point of the game was the Avatar. Infinite, the new big bad, probably does more with Avatar than anyone else, even Sonic. Avatar is the only character to get a consistent, coherent story arc, with overcoming his fear and facing Infinite. Despite how shallow the game feels, there's a ton of unlocks for Avatar accessories (not a fan of how you can't change the color of items and have to unlock different colorings, and the slot system doesn't let you match things like a jacket and scarf).
  • I knew this was never going to happen, but missed opportunity: Final boss rush of Perfect Chaos, Metal Overlord, Super Shadow, and Giant Zavok. We know the Phantom Ruby can create more clones, and if its overclocked like Eggman had done in the final boss, he could reasonably produce proxies of them that would still probably be weak enough to be defeated by the playable characters. But speaking of the villains...
  • What was the point of hyping up Chaos in the marketing? All the villains for that matter, but Chaos by far feels like the most egregious inclusion. I was afraid that Shadow was just going to be a cheap fanservice shoe-in, but he actually came out decently (more on that later). But Chaos... wow. He appeared twice. Once to beat on Sonic, then once again to be beaten on by Classic Sonic. Didn't even get a boss battle. I don't even remember if he was with the other clones in the final battle cutscene. Huge wasted potential there, especially because of how cool he looks with modern graphics.
  • Metal Sonic was just a one-off boss battle. He wasn't even mentioned anywhere else. Granted, he's Metal Sonic, its not like he's going to have deep motivations or character development (Heroes aside) and he wasn't even the orignal or a "real" Metal Sonic. Sonic even questions why Eggman made fake clones of Metal instead of the real one, which makes you wonder: Why doesn't he? If he can mass-produce Death Egg Robots, why not Metal Sonic (or even just an actual Metal Sonic)? And if Infinite can generate an infinite (OH NOW I GET IT) number of clones, what does going out of your way to destroy one accomplish?
  • Zavok: Out of all the villains in the rogues' gallery, Zavok was the only one (bar Eggman and Infinite and I guess technically Shadow) to have any real interaction with Sonic. That's just sad.
  • Shadow. Okay, its weird to say this, but ironically, this is probably the best characterization for Shadow we've gotten. I was half expecting his inclusion to be like in Generations: "This time, I will destroy you once and for all!" loses "Next time, I will destroy you once and for all!" leaves. He wasn't the total discount Vegeta we've been getting lately, he has a few decent lines of dialogue, and seeing him smile a few times was refreshing. And I think I'm finally starting to get used to his new VA. So I guess he's a plus for me, but really only in the sense that he wasn't offensive. He wasn't badly written or unlikeable, or as bad of a shoe-in as Chaos. Just... he didn't do much. You never get a Shadow boss battle. He spouts some exposition, but that's about it. But that's par for the course in this game, speaking of which...
  • Predictably, every character on the Hero side is just flat and boring. No real interactions or character moments or anything to make them stand out besides a few lines that just show their already-established character traits (ie, Amy crushing on Sonic, Espio being a ninja, Charmy being annoying). Silver is the Chaos of the Resistance, in that he does the least out of them despite his backstory having some weight to it. And again, if you want to know how he showed up in the first place, well, hope you've been following Twitter, because none of this is explained in the game either. Rouge doesn't even make a physical appearance until the very end of the game. While I'm at it, I gotta go back to Shadow here: None of the Resistance seems to know that the Shadow they're fighting is a fake, so where has he been for the past 6 months? We don't even get a "good to see you again" from Rouge, so does she know the truth about Shadow? And how exactly did Omega show up again? Last we saw of him, Tails (who has never interacted with Omega in any game) was trying to fix him unsuccessfully. Rouge comments on his last minute appearance, but you just don't get to do that when its handled that poorly. It just feels like the writers saying "Yep, we screwed this up."
  • Okay, I feel like this needs a separate point. A metric for writers I've learned is, when you look at your story, take a look at each character and imagine how the story would change if that character weren't present. Apply this to Forces and you see how bloated it feels. How would the story change if Amy were gone? It wouldn't. If Silver were gone? It wouldn't. The Chaotix? Nada. You can make points that some characters make some sort of discovery or something that advances the plot, but this usually feels forced and isn't handled well (ex: Rouge doing something with Eggman's archives and the Phantom Ruby? idk, cause I think Classic Sonic handled it anyways). Even Tails felt unnecessary. Basically anyone but Sonic himself and the Avatar were just irrelevant. And this all basically stems from....
  • Forces prioritizes spectacle over substance. "Eggman takes over the world!" offscreen. "There are Death Egg Robots everywhere!" in the background and you only fight one in a QTE as a lead-in to Metal Sonic. "The Death Egg is back!" and gets blown up about halfways through (seriously, how did they even destroy it? Sonic does some stuff with computers, Classic Sonic runs through it, and.... it explodes, I guess?). "Badass" QTEs galore. Plot points are picked up on and dropped constantly throughout the story, and it all just feels underwhelming. And that's the problem. Its not straight-up offensive like 06, Shadow, or parts of Lost World, its just lackluster on so many levels. It tries stuff, but doesn't commit to it, so while it doesn't crash and burn, it still falls flat. And the whole "power of friendship" is cheesy at best, cringeworthy at worst. Anyways, enough trying to be objective, back to nitpicking:
  • What happened to Infinite? Is he dead? Did he just loose the Phantom Ruby? Can he live without it? Who knows.
  • What happened to Eggman? Unleashed, Generations, and Lost World all made a point that he was still kicking after the game (no idea for Colors since I never played it). But Forces.... man, what even happened there? It was actually a pretty cool final boss (awfulness of the controls aside), but what the hell happened? The thing exploded out of the robot, was Eggman in that? Was he in it when it was destroyed? Did he get killed or trapped in Null Space? The Eggmobile is never seen flying away or anything, and there's no post-credits scene to clear it up. Supposedly there are PC files that indicate Super Sonic is going to make an appearance, so maybe there'll be a "true" ending at some point that wraps this up. Or maybe I'm just misinterpreting things. Lets go with that.
  • The Final Boss is not a Death Egg Robot. Just putting that out there. Could they literally not think of a better title? Even just "Phantom Death Egg Robot" would've made more sense. Again, I think it looks pretty cool, its just... lazy name. I think its a mashup of Death Egg, Egg Dragoon, and some of Eggman's Phantom Ruby suit in Mania with a coat of black paint.
  • Final battle: How many combinations of character features do they have, and the final scene is just a few character models reused over and over again? Hell, identical characters stand next to each other. There isn't a way to just randomize features, colors, and accessories for the characters in that scene?
  • Sonic and Avatar getting out of Null Space seconds after getting there is the definition of anticlimactic.
  • Characters keep referring to the "City." And the zone itself is named City. I'm starting to think there's really only one city on this planet.
  • Eggman's plan was to drop a sun on the world? While he's still on it? How are you going to "rebuild" on a planet that's been completely and utterly obliterated by a celestial body hundreds of times the mass of the planet?
  • "Tru dat" -Tails, 2017

I'll edit in more if I think of them. Not really gonna comment on gameplay.

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