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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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Death is a tricky thing to handle because it should be one of the strongest emotional moments of a story but (and because of that) if you can't sell it it'll likely be one of the worst moments of the story.

And this series has lacked the ability to genuinely sell a moment like that since...SA2, probably (which they then went and ruined by bringing Shadow back in the next game). Repeated failures have also worn down people's willingness to trust the series, which makes it harder to sell the event independent of the quality of the writing. I wouldn't say the series should never, ever use death in the story, but it is not in a position right now where it should be taking that risk.

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Death is a tricky thing to handle because it should be one of the strongest emotional moments of a story but (and because of that) if you can't sell it it'll likely be one of the worst moments of the story.

And this series has lacked the ability to genuinely sell a moment like that since...SA2, probably (which they then went and ruined by bringing Shadow back in the next game). Repeated failures have also worn down people's willingness to trust the series, which makes it harder to sell the event independent of the quality of the writing. I wouldn't say the series should never, ever use death in the story, but it is not in a position right now where it should be taking that risk.

1

You misspelled  "Sonic Battle"

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I think the tone of the game would have been fine if there was actual substance to back it up. Nothing really happened, I've seen jokes about how little Classic Sonic plays into the plot... But in reality the only character that does anything other than be captured is the avatar! There's no consequence in Sonic games anymore... It's a sad truth

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I've been watching youtube playthroughs and I gotta say, this game looks AMAZING! I think this is one of the best Sonic games so far. The gameplay, the mechanics, the way they implented the side characters without really, really, really PISSING *that* chunk of the audience, the ones that despise SA1 and 2. I mean, this game looks awesome.

Sure, it has problems, and yeah Tails shouldn't be a coward. But this game honestly looks badass. I think it's a positive step for the Sonic franchise. 

I know, no one is going to agree with me, but I do ask for people to respect my opinion. 

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16 minutes ago, SpencerTheGr8 said:

I know, no one is going to agree with me

I agree with you. Yeah, the game isn't perfect, and needs some work, but it's still really awesome!

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16 hours ago, Sr101 said:

I think the tone of the game would have been fine if there was actual substance to back it up. Nothing really happened, I've seen jokes about how little Classic Sonic plays into the plot... But in reality the only character that does anything other than be captured is the avatar! There's no consequence in Sonic games anymore... It's a sad truth

Sadly, it seems like the extended cast doesn't do much until the end while they sit back and let Sonic and the Avatar be important. 

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17 hours ago, Sr101 said:

I think the tone of the game would have been fine if there was actual substance to back it up. Nothing really happened, I've seen jokes about how little Classic Sonic plays into the plot... But in reality the only character that does anything other than be captured is the avatar! There's no consequence in Sonic games anymore... It's a sad truth

Yeah...the story had a lot of potential too. Could’ve been the next SA2 even!

But instead we get Black Screen of Exposition, talking head moments where a proper cutscene should’ve been, Classic Sonic just being there for no apparent reason (oh wait I know why, fanservice 8D), wasted villains, Infinite’s lame ass backstory and shitty “death”, the Power of Friendship, *gag* Tails being a weak coward, plot holes and characters not doing much of anything until the epic battle at the end...an epic battle that ends up looking lame. 

I’m actually okay with the focus on Avatar, but perhaps that’s because my Avatar is too adorable to hate. >>

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Here's a fun little experiment.

Someone, after a second playthrough of Forces, constructed a supercut of what can broadly be described as all of the meaningful 3D gameplay sections (excluding bosses)...which only added up to 15 minutes' worth of gameplay. The uploaded gave a more specific account of the supercut, which you can read below:

Quote

The footage here is my second play-through of the game with all moments where you can't control the character in 3D edited out. Specifically: 
- menus/cut-scenes, of course 
- classic sonic and 2D sections of the 3D characters 
- long automated sequences (the train in that one avatar stage) 
- the boss fights, while most are 3D, they are essentially padding and come out as tedious wait-fests. 
- the slide, because fuck the slide 

All that's left is about 15 minutes of 3D sonic(and avatar). And even then a-lot of this game-play is grinding on solo rails or just boosting straight with little challenge or player input required. And I didn't even take the fastest routes.

Given how the estimated time given for beating the game is 2-4 hours without 100% completion (not going for the Red Rings/Numbered Rings/Moon Medals/Daily Missions/etc.)...the 3D gameplay only accounts for what, 1/8th to 1/16th of gameplay for the entire average playthrough. :v

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Only ~15 minutes is pretty rough, I'm not sure if even I would've guessed that low.

It also emphasizes how shallow most of the 3D sections are. An awful lot of that 15 minutes is spent on just boosting forward or long grinding sequences, and you could probably cut another minute or two by editing out all the "cinematic" grapple swings and ramp/spring/hoop launches and the minimally-interactive grapple drifts.

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Unleashed, Colours and Generations did 3D sections great. Unleashed did 2D sections fantastic. Colours and Generations's 2D sections were a chore to control. 

I sound like a broken record by now but I'll say it how many times are necessary. If you're going to have Classic Sonic or someone like the Avatar, don't fucking give Modern Sonic 2D sections they're fucking awful and redundant. 

It's the main problem with Generations 3DS besides being a cashgrab. You can choose between fast platforming with Sonic or faster platforming with Sonic. Joy.

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2 hours ago, Blue Wisp said:

Unleashed, Colours and Generations did 3D sections great.

What memories do you have of this?  Because honestly I feel Forces was honestly marginally better than Colours when it came to 3D sections.

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12 minutes ago, JezMM said:

What memories do you have of this?  Because honestly I feel Forces was honestly marginally better than Colours when it came to 3D sections.

Colors only has very few 3D sections that are more than just a straight line or drifting...but on a positive side while it has less than Forces, the few that Colors does have are more involved than in Forces.

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8 hours ago, Gabz Girl said:

Except Colours did not have sections where you suddenly boost off the track because no barriers and no drifting. =/ 

It's a hard call but I think I'd take "unfair danger that there's no way you'll avoid the first time but requires you to think and make relevant inputs on future attempts to avoid" than "pretty much no danger of failure at all".

Really is a tough call, they're both opposite shitty ends of the Boost Sonic level design stick lol.

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On 22/11/2017 at 1:52 AM, SpencerTheGr8 said:

I've been watching youtube playthroughs and I gotta say, this game looks AMAZING! I think this is one of the best Sonic games so far. The gameplay, the mechanics, the way they implented the side characters without really, really, really PISSING *that* chunk of the audience, the ones that despise SA1 and 2. I mean, this game looks awesome.

Sure, it has problems, and yeah Tails shouldn't be a coward. But this game honestly looks badass. I think it's a positive step for the Sonic franchise. 

I know, no one is going to agree with me, but I do ask for people to respect my opinion. 

I agree with you. Despite some visible problems, the game IS good! It's fun to play, the soundtrack is superb, the stages have a cinematic quality to them; the avatar concept was well implemented; Infinite is a good villain, threatening and intimidating; the radio system is cool; and the Resistance was a clever way to gather the characters around and give them a purpose.

 

If the game had been in development for at least another year, it could have been a great and memorable game. 

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Who felt it was ok to have lines involving Sonic getting tortured? Or Tails ‘losing’ it? Or civilians losing their lives? In a family friendly platformer game? 

This may be perceived as an exaggeration to some, but I really don’t remember this in any of the previous “darker” Sonic games. They were ridiculous for their own content, but this is also wrong to put in.

Sonic’s positive attitude makes this slightly more tolerable. Eggman also deserves credit for not, yet again, being perceived as incompetent. 

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50 minutes ago, Stardust said:

 Infinite is a good villain,

I'M NOT WEAK.

50 minutes ago, Stardust said:

the Resistance was a clever way to gather the characters around and give them a purpose.

>The Sonics and OC do more or less everything that matters.

15 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

Eggman also deserves credit for not, yet again, being perceived as incompetent. 

He's not anymore credible than in Colors. He barely had an impact on the world (what with the lack of you know, toxic rivers) and didn't bother to do more than the lowest standard to restrain Modern Sonic's legs.

On 11/21/2017 at 5:43 PM, Sr101 said:

I think the tone of the game would have been fine if there was actual substance to back it up. Nothing really happened, I've seen jokes about how little Classic Sonic plays into the plot... But in reality the only character that does anything other than be captured is the avatar! There's no consequence in Sonic games anymore... It's a sad truth

That's what happens when you try to force edge into what had been a Saturday Morning Cartoon World.

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1 hour ago, Mark1 said:

Who felt it was ok to have lines involving Sonic getting tortured? Or Tails ‘losing’ it? Or civilians losing their lives? In a family friendly platformer game? 

This may be perceived as an exaggeration to some, but I really don’t remember this in any of the previous “darker” Sonic games. They were ridiculous for their own content, but this is also wrong to put in.

Sonic’s positive attitude makes this slightly more tolerable. Eggman also deserves credit for not, yet again, being perceived as incompetent. 

 

Sonic 2: Tails Plane crashing coulda maybe infered to some a possible death? Or perhaps Sonic falling with no one to potentially catch him? But I guess not since the music is upbeat the whole time.

Sonic 2 MS: Tails dies? Well probably not. People joke he dies because he is in the star constellation if you don't get all emeralds. I mean Sonic had the same thing at the end of Mania and he didn't die XD.

Sonic Adventures 1: Gamma essentially dies. Mass Echidna killing. Mass Chao killing. City flooded. "All's well that did NOT end well." 

Sonic Adventure 2: Sonic near death. Eggman threatening to kill Amy. Maria shot to death. Gerald Death by firing squad. Scientists I think died (Someone check that). The ark was gonna kill everyone if it hit earth. Moon being partially destroyed should cause the tides to go out of wack XP. Shadow "dies".

Sonic Heroes: Shadow's....Ghost? Well that kind of references death.

Sonic Battle: Emerl basically dies. The whole planet woulda been destroyed/killed if the Egg Blaster fired.

Shadow The Hedgehog: Several scenes of Shadow killing Eggman in some endings. Scientist deaths I think. Probably more considering this is Shadow's game. Those creatures spawn of Black Doom were pretty much gonna kill Sonic and Friends......and Shadow leaves them behind for some reason....what a dick.

Sonic 06: Sonic pretty much dies. The world being apocalyptic in the future pretty much implies death. Blaze kinda sorta dies (Alternate whatever pffft). Elise's father dies.

Sonic Unleashed: World being shattered and Dark Gaia basically going to kill everyone if born, by destroying the entire planet, which Chip would have to fix if he succeeded.

Sonic Colors: Pretty sure the Wisps die when drained of all their energy. I don't believe they survive the process.

Sonic Generations: Uh....um......I guess the Eggman pretty much going to kill the Sonic's.....

Sonic Lost World: The planet is being drained to death. Amy and Knuckles potentially were dead or at least dying.

Sonic Boom: I think Lyric killed the Ancients.....maybe....whatever it's shit I just went off barely any memory. Disregard if not true.

Sonic Forces: Well...ya already know.

 

I mean Family Friendly really doesn't mean ya can't have death and stuff. I mean Disney is the king of making people cry and feel bad ala Mufasa, Bambi's mom, or whoever biting it. 

1 hour ago, Almar said:

He's not anymore credible than in Colors. He barely had an impact on the world (what with the lack of you know, toxic rivers) and didn't bother to do more than the lowest standard to restrain Modern Sonic's legs.

That's what happens when you try to force edge into what had been a Saturday Morning Cartoon World.

He actually conquers the world 99.9%. Effectively captures and has Sonic beaten/tortured. That's far more than anything he has accomplished in Colors. He effectively won. His lack of flair and being rather dull with his rule doesn't change the fact this pretty much is the greatest victory he has ever had. Never had he conquered the world til now. In Colors he farted about, basically failed by boss 1, and couldn't even hypnotize Tails to at least get some victory. He was a loser by the beginning and end. In Forces Eggman is a winner before becoming a loser. He accomplished far more than the resistance which was useless without Sonic as in 6 month's they couldn't do shit, while Sonic & Sonic could do everything in 3 days.

Sonic has always had edge, even in the classic days. He just wasn't try hard edge. What with woodland critters being captured and forced into robots. Forest fires. Pollution and destruction on a wide scale from manufactured progress, etc. That creepy ass Sonic CD screen in the game. It's not til Colors where he became full on generic Saturday Morning Cartoon hog in love with his own farts.

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2 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Who felt it was ok to have lines involving Sonic getting tortured? Or Tails ‘losing’ it? Or civilians losing their lives? In a family friendly platformer game? 

2 out of 3 of these things are pretty standard for Family Friendly media.

Literally anyone would think this was okay...

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4 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Who felt it was ok to have lines involving Sonic getting tortured? Or Tails ‘losing’ it? Or civilians losing their lives? In a family friendly platformer game? 

This may be perceived as an exaggeration to some, but I really don’t remember this in any of the previous “darker” Sonic games. They were ridiculous for their own content, but this is also wrong to put in.

Sonic’s positive attitude makes this slightly more tolerable. Eggman also deserves credit for not, yet again, being perceived as incompetent. 

I felt and always will feel like it's ok. Sonics story can allow it when needed. Sonicnis not paw patrol where someone could not understand it. Sega doesn't like to always come out to say it. Chaos flooding the city with a skyscrapper sized flood. Eggman blowing up the moon, causing tidal issues. Shooting sonic into space to kill him. Holding a gun to tails head. Blowing up the w.house and nearly a entire city. Slitting the world apart possibly killing people at the impact zone. Destroying a forest with fire. Knocking down the marble zone.

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