Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Gabz Girl]

That black screen of exposition at the start of Sonic Forces is one of the most hilariously bad things I’ve seen in a video game since the The Order 1886’s ending. It’s so obvious that the game is so cheap that they did not have time to actually SHOW us anything, just telling us in text and exposition.

And yeah, how the hell did a group of really powerful guys fail to do anything in months while Sonic and Avatar got shit done in a few days? Shadow did fuck all too, where was he the whole time?! He could’ve easily rescued Sonic from the Death Egg before Avatar got there or stopped Dr Eggman! They really didn’t think this crappy story through did they?

[Blue Wisp]

4 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

That black screen of exposition at the start of Sonic Forces is one of the most hilariously bad things I’ve seen in a video game since the The Order 1886’s ending. It’s so obvious that the game is so cheap that they did not have time to actually SHOW us anything, just telling us in text and exposition.

I remember something about cut dialogues that had those black screens narrated or something?

Something fucked up Forces's development and I will probably never learn why, but god I really want to know what happened behind the scenes. This is too much for me to think it's just plain incompetence from Sonic Team, at least for my sanity I'd rather think it's not about Sonic Team being an incompetent piece of shit. 

Why the fuck have only one new guy work on level design. 

[Gabz Girl]

13 minutes ago, Blue Wisp said:

I remember something about cut dialogues that had those black screens narrated or something?

Something fucked up Forces's development and I will probably never learn why, but god I really want to know what happened behind the scenes. This is too much for me to think it's just plain incompetence from Sonic Team, at least for my sanity I'd rather think it's not about Sonic Team being an incompetent piece of shit. 

Why the fuck have only one new guy work on level design. 

Well I remember that some of Sonic’s dialogue got cut from the Null Space Tag Team stage, suggesting that part was supposed to be longer than it is in the final game. I didn’t know this about narration on the black screen of exposition though! Who was it narrating, Knuckles? 

But yeah, this game seems to have had some shaky development. It’s a miracle it didn’t end up being worse than it actually is! 

[Almar]

It's obvious that this game is a hodgepog of different ideas for a game (a Generations sequel and an attempt to ape Western Sonic works that have Eggman as a an overlord ruling the world).

[Tarnish]

4 hours ago, Almar said:

It's obvious that this game is a hodgepog of different ideas for a game

"Sonic the hodgepodge"

Sounds quite fitting at this point.

[Razule]

I bet 50 rings they didn't actually know there was a level called "Sand Hill" when writing the Sand Hill line

[Blue Blood]

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

I bet 50 rings they didn't actually know there was a level called "Sand Hill" when writing the Sand Hill line

That's what I think too. They were just making a comment about it being sandy rather than green, as opposed to making an actual callback to an obscure level.

[Red Hot Jack]

I think I'm finally ready to talk about this game.

I liked it, it's still a disappointment because I had high expectations, but it's a short game with inconsistent gameplay, the gameplay itself is my main con about Forces, it doesn't even rank up to Colors, or even Lost World which I thought was a polished and well crafted game, the situations it provides are... way too simple and that's not even the problem, they are always the same, most stages are similar and way too short, they DEFINITELY needed more (stage) gimmicks, some are fun though, like Luminous Forest, Egg Gate, the Metropolis stages and the final ones, they are a tiny bit more complex, the one where Infinite creates illusions for the Avatar. Speaking of Infinite, I really enjoyed the story, best one in a while, most characters had cool lines and their moments including Knuckles, Silver, Espio, Shadow, Rouge, Omega, even Tails, yes you heard me, despite being weak and a coward, he had his moments with Classic Sonic and the Avatar; if there is someone who got snobbed it's Amy. Sonic also had some great lines, Zavok and Metal Sonic at least got bosses, Shadow got his own mini story, the only villain who was useless I'll agree it's Chaos, there's not much to say. I'm glad the Avatar got his development, or what he could get without having a personality, Infinite was a great villain, with a great design and theme song, he acted a bit like Frieza I thought, and his backstory was cool enough, it wasn't the stupidly tragic and usual thing, and he is definitely not a Vader rip-off like someone said (because of the mask), I'm just bothered that he was left up in the air, he just vanished without... any resolution, anything. I hope this means he can reappear in the future, I know he is very popular. The music was also great, not outstanding like Unleashed and Colors, but good, I liked how there were different genres for each character, and oh, don't get me started about the vocal tracks, AMAZING! I've been singing a lot of times "Fist Bump", "Theme of Infinite", "Light of Hope" and "Park Avenue", but there are a lot more great songs. The Avatar gameplay didn't convince me, sadly, and the abundance of 2D didn't help, I really want a 3D Sonic game, in real 3D, but I liked the customization here, ironically I spent more time making Avatars than playing the actual game, it's just so much fun and getting to play as them is a plus, even though not very fun, the Wispon gadgets were hit or miss, not too fun to play and definitely overpowered, but as I said, I enjoyed creating Avatars, my friends even asked me to make their own, they were so happy when I made them. I also liked the amount of hidden collectables, I wish there were more rewards than just Avatar parts, but okay. So if there is one thing that ruined the experience for me, it's the gameplay, too simple, repetitive, unoriginal, soulless, limited, short and restricted, too much 2D, ironically my favorite gameplay was Classic Sonic's, it was the most fun, plus some of Modern Sonic stages, oh I haven't talked about Classic Sonic's inclusion in the game... totally pointless, but I will take it since I had fun with it.

I'm also glad this game is selling well, apparently, because I don't want Modern Sonic and 3D games to die, I don't want the series to go in a full Mania/nostalgia direction, and I'm a Sonic fan so I support the series, other people want to ignore the 3D era and just go with what they personally like, and they are also ready to jump on "it's failing to sell" before actually seeing for themselves. I'm disappointed with the gameplay in Forces, but I'm also disappointed by the fans.

[Nicky Nicardo]

I really wanna know how much Forces has sold to this date, as opposed to just within the first week. I bought the game and I was happy with my purchase, but I do wonder just how well it's doing 'in general'.

[Korke]

1 hour ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

I really wanna know how much Forces has sold to this date, as opposed to just within the first week. I bought the game and I was happy with my purchase, but I do wonder just how well it's doing 'in general'.

Only info you can get is PC sales. They were sitting on ~19k and increased to ~30k after the price drop of the sale.

Still unbelievably terrible numbers. (Actually, it's pretty plausible, given how bad that game is)

[Razule]

Oh hey, I just realized, the prequel comic confirms Knuckles doesn't shrink the ME and take it with him or hide it somewhere, he just leaves it there. MAn.. Eggman's really dumb

[ShadowSJG]

Forces was so rushed.

[Tarnish]

On 2018. 01. 03. at 3:48 AM, Razule said:

I bet 50 rings they didn't actually know there was a level called "Sand Hill" when writing the Sand Hill line

Well if they were unaware that Tails didn't used to be and thus shouldn't be a useless cowardly character all the time, they obviously never even looked at the older games to see how he was portrayed back then, or they did but just decided to completely ignore it. So either they are not aware of the past games at all, or just doesn't give a rats ass about it and just do whatever they see fit, even if it goes completely against the previous games.

Pick which one is the better option.

So if they are not even aware of the important things, they are obviously clueless about the small things.

[Meta77]

People keep talking about tails. It's cause it's a different version of him.  while I like the idea of a linked story elements drop or change. Eggman simply locks sonic up. Where the eggman that held a gun to Amy's head. Or a eggman ruling the earth and touching a few characters to the eggman that helped save the world in SA2 . Sega is just bad at story telling

[Blue Blood]

Speaking of Eggman locking Sonic up, I don't know why they went with that angle. When he escaped later on, neither he, Eggman or Infinite were really that bothered. It gets brought up once before the GHZ boss with Classic and then never again. The entire setup was contrived and uncharacteristic of everyone involved.

I would have done it differently. Instead of putting Sonic in a cell on the Death Egg, the story should have had Sonic trapped in Null Space. And Classic Sonic should also have started the game in Null Space following the events at the end of Mania. That's where the Sonics would team up and when they escape they would end up in Modern Sonic's world together.

[GuyWithThePie]

14 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Well if they were unaware that Tails didn't used to be and thus shouldn't be a useless cowardly character all the time, they obviously never even looked at the older games to see how he was portrayed back then, or they did but just decided to completely ignore it. So either they are not aware of the past games at all, or just doesn't give a rats ass about it and just do whatever they see fit, even if it goes completely against the previous games.

Pick which one is the better option.

So if they are not even aware of the important things, they are obviously clueless about the small things.

Pretty much this. Any pre-2010 canon might as well be non-existent at this point.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

Pretty much this. Any pre-2010 canon might as well be non-existent at this point.

Or pre-2008, perhaps, since Unleashed was a clear attempt to separate the series from the disaster that was '06. It even established everyone's least favorite character trait (so maybe we can stop pretending that every decision we don't like is due to Pontac and Graff? Yes? Maybe? Probably not.)

[Tarnish]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It even established everyone's least favorite character trait

As much as I hate that scene (not that I like any besides the opening CGI in that game), at least you could say Tails was facing enemies that were completely unknown to him, he was outnumbered, and at least he managed to escape. In Farces (cuz this game doesn't even deserve to be called by its real name), he was completely useless against 1 enemy he was familiar with, the odds were even, yet he just stood there doing absolutely nothing, not even flying away...

[Diogenes]

Yes but let's not ignore how they had a character state that Tails had "lost it", in reference to him being traumatized (or at least emotionally vulnerable) after seeing his hero get the shit beaten out of him and possibly killed. And that the scene is not just portraying Tails as a coward for no reason, but to show how he's been affected by Sonic's "death" and Eggman's takeover. How it shows actual consequences for events, and a more nuanced and human take on Tails as a character.

But fuck all that, right? He fought Chaos 4 before, so mathematically he has no reason to be afraid of Chaos 0, therefore writing him to show fear and vulnerability is bad.

...y'know, I fucking hate that I have to defend something from Forces, because so much of the game is inexcusable garbage. But I guess I hate seeing one of the few fleeting moments where some amount of creativity and meaning manages to seep through the generic self-absorbed trash that makes up so much of the game treated as if it's just laziness and stupidity because it doesn't match up perfectly with an 18 year old game even more.

I really need to learn how to stop getting mad about video games.

[Blue Blood]

Personally speaking, the fact that it doesn't match up to SA1 or SA2 doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that it's shitty from the outset - from Tails cowering in Unleashed, to Sonic shoving him into an elevator in Colours, to just being a a tech guy in Colours and Generations, to watching Sonic get beaten in Forces and to finally cowering in the face of Chaos in the same game. I found fault with all of these moments and have expressed them thusly over the years. The issue is that Tails character isn't bringing the same qualities to the table anymore. His entire relationship with Sonic and what he's capable of have changed for the worse. He's less interesting and also incredibly annoying.

If Tails had been doing more than just cowering at the sight of Eggman and watching Sonic get beaten at the beginning of Forces, I'd be much more lenient on the scenes that followed. If he lost confidence in himself at the same time he physically lost Sonic, it would really lend a bit of strength to him "losing it". Likewise if he actually did anything in more recent preceeding games. But he just doesn't anymore. So when he behaves the way that he does I in Forces, it had very little impact and instead just feels like yet more poor handling of his character.

Kinda wish they worked the Phantom Ruby into the situation and somehow had Tails believing he was the reason that Sonic fell in that fight. Ick.. Is there any part of Forces' story that was actually handled well?

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Yes but let's not ignore how they had a character state that Tails had "lost it", in reference to him being traumatized (or at least emotionally vulnerable) after seeing his hero get the shit beaten out of him and possibly killed. And that the scene is not just portraying Tails as a coward for no reason, but to show how he's been affected by Sonic's "death" and Eggman's takeover. How it shows actual consequences for events, and a more nuanced and human take on Tails as a character.

But fuck all that, right? He fought Chaos 4 before, so mathematically he has no reason to be afraid of Chaos 0, therefore writing him to show fear and vulnerability is bad.

...y'know, I fucking hate that I have to defend something from Forces, because so much of the game is inexcusable garbage. But I guess I hate seeing one of the few fleeting moments where some amount of creativity and meaning manages to seep through the generic self-absorbed trash that makes up so much of the game treated as if it's just laziness and stupidity because it doesn't match up perfectly with an 18 year old game even more.

I really need to learn how to stop getting mad about video games.

That line was added by Pontaff though, in the Japanese version, Silver just said Tails was missing. And prior, he did just cower against average robots before Sonic was even out of commission. 

I don't see the point in trying to excuse it. He was scared, fine. He did the same in Unleashed, yeah, so it's not just Pontaff, yes. But it isn't just him being scared, or showing new "layers" to his character, he's just a wimp now. 

You're right that comparing it to the Adventures is pointless because it's clearly a different interpretation of the character, but it's.. sure not a very likable one IMO

[RedFox99]

The thing with Tails and to an extent the other characters is that they are really having it hard after '06. They aren't really as relevant as they were during the early-mid 2000s. In Tails's case, people want his Adventures self instead of his modern self.

1 hour ago, Razule said:

You're right that comparing it to the Adventures is pointless because it's clearly a different interpretation of the character, but it's.. sure not a very likable one IMO

I see where you're coming from, but people seem to make these comparisons to show why modern Tails doesn't work as a character as much as Adventures Tails.

[Almar]

What's the point of having Tails and other characters around anymore if the best they can aspire to is stuff like making Infinite drop a jewel? Might as well do what Mario does and ignore every non-generic character outside of like Sonic and Eggman.

[RedFox99]

2 minutes ago, Almar said:

What's the point of having Tails and other characters around anymore if the best they can aspire to is stuff like making Infinite drop a jewel? Might as well do what Mario does and ignore every non-generic character outside of like Sonic and Eggman.

 

Or maybe have side games giving the other characters spotlight like with the Mario series. 

[Blue Blood]

Isn't Sonic always banging on about friendship? Isn't that exactly how he saves the day in Forces, by teaming up with <insert your name here>?