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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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1 minute ago, SonicLegends said:

I don't understand why people were crying about Tails saying "Tru dat" like yes it's cringe but I think if there is one line that pissed me off it was this with the plot of where the Phantom Ruby prototypes with the avatar using them.

"Your courage and heroism are probably what triggered it."

Courage...

Heroism...

 

Are you serious? Not that maybe the avatar and Infinite are related in some way as Eggman mentions DNA earlier? Or heck I would have gladly just taken the avatar pulling a Sonic using a fake chaos emerald like he did in SA2. But this right is here is what I call a Gary Sue way of explaining it.

Just like the chaos emeralds, and chaos control, if you believe hard enough apparently, you can use these things like it's nothing 

huh. Can a mod merge these two?

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Just now, KHCast said:

Just like the chaos emeralds, and chaos control, if you believe hard enough apparently, you can use these things like it's nothing 

Pretty much but it's like Infinite sure he says only a being of my strength of will could ever activate it, but Eggman implies it could be more than just that. I would have taken Tails saying willpower instead given how the avatar wants to live so strongly as means to triggering it but Tails uses courage and heroism instead.

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https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/6774-sonic-forces

It's not over yet.

Remember, he hasn't collected all of the red rings, and we haven't even  seen what these "EX stages" or these "Silver moon rings" are yet.

Super Sonic is probably connected to the red rings, there's exactly seven zones, so it's probably going to be like Colors and Lost World, where getting all of the red rings in a world gets you a chaos emerald.

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nq472s0.png

So for those who it may concern, it seems like the militaristic badniks were a one-game only thing. Seems like SLW's badniks are still being treated as the "standard" versions?

No skin off my back, as I really liked the return to the cartoony style, but I know some people reeeeaaally didn't like Lost World for basically "standardizing" the art style starting with Runners, so... :B

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49 minutes ago, AuroraRedwinters said:

Just seeing some of the cut scenes, this game from a story perspective had SO much potential, but definitely fell short. I almost want to re-write it and make it better dammit.

And my favorite character, Tails, they totally ruined him in this game from what I've seen.

At least Sonic's characterization is pretty decent. And I enjoy seeing a competent Knuckles again.

Well the game is obviously low-budget. 

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The grapple hook mechanic is very similar to Sonic Boom’s Enerbeam. Also notice how Avatar (and other background NPS) are much taller than the main cast and has a funny body build? 

Hmmmm. Seems the theories of Boom!Sonic being the third character could be true then?

6 minutes ago, Johnny Boy said:

So what did everyone think of “Light of Hope”? It seemed like a better version of “My Destiny”.

I think it’s great! ^^ A very sweet song and WAY better than My Destiny.

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I'm really saddened that everything I feared since early release has pretty much come true, as well as stuff I had hoped would work out didn't.

Some positives things I can muster

-I do like this kind of tone in the story. I can at least be interested and give a crap when stories since colours were too detached to my liking, that I could never care about anything going on.

-I like how Infinite talks and acts. That's pretty cool. He showed a lot of potential. It's hard not to fall for him. Well at least in voice, presence, and attitude...but only on that level.

-I like there is a resistance to give more characters something to do...more on that later.

-Eggman remaining final boss I liked, but not at the cost of Infinite just going poof.

-Shadow not regressing into a villain. 

-Silver got to do something kinda cool, which is more than what Knuckles got despite being leader.

-The Sonic and Tails hugging and reuniting part.

 

Of course negatives

-Infinite being a illusion thing and not having any real interesting backstory/history or whatever. Bleh.

-Only Zavok and Metal Sonic are fought, the others apparently don't do shit despite being illusions

-The illusion of characters being helpful when it seems they were all pretty useless and not very helpful in the grand scheme of things. Really only the trio mattered and got things done. Called Knuckles big role wasn't gonna mean much.

-Levels look watered down from Generations

-No one thinks of using and getting Chaos emeralds? The thing that wasn't even needed to beat Infinite and probably could have.

-Tails. Jesus....what the hell happened to him? I wonder if Classic Sonic was wondering what the fuck Tails was doing this whole time. He's probably used to Tails actually helping him, while this joke doesn't do shit. It is heart breaking being a Tails fan. Charmy Bee, fucking Charmy Bee of all people is more capable than Tails. Tails is reduced to a whimpering coward who is incapable of doing anything. A slave to exposition, and nothing else. Mooks are too much, Sonic Adventure apparently happened but vastly differently as Tails entire character arc is thrown out, and his solo victory over Eggman is glossed over as never happening. Did he even make the Wispon's? My bet was his main use would be making gadgets for the avatar. To at least try and give him something to do. But I don't think he did that even unless I missed it. He literally could only do exposition and explaining shit. That's it. Explaining shit is all he can do anymore. I said Boom Tails sucked before....but even Boom Tails is more capable than this empty shell. With Knuckles getting the bump up from not seemingly being an idiot/incompetent person in modern now (As well as Eggman), I think Tails is probably the most screwed over character. The only bone he has gotten thrown his way is having a Super Form with the Chaos Emeralds in Classic Sonic's world so he's not a third wheel in that department. That's probably more on the Mania team than anything to do with Sonic Team/Sega decisions. Funny enough I said the same thing about Gohan in Dragon Ball Super until Dragon Ball Super stopped treating him so poorly. I even wondered who would get to be useful/competent again. I actually thought it would be Tails, but nope not even power creep could stop Gohan. Gohan becomes more useful/competent while Tails remains to exist only because he's a classic character and to explain shit. Buddy might as well stay as he's far more useful than Tails is, or Knuckles should just partner up with Sonic while Tails sits back at a computer screen ala Oracle from Batman so he's not in harms way, and can do more from there. 

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For me, the cutscenes looked really Lost World-ish and not really well thought as well. 

More about the story itself from the cutscenes... Eggman is there really only half-time and... it feels just as threatening as LW. Big threat when everything is working as planned, otherwise scared almost shitless before being conscious again. 

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3 minutes ago, theofficefan99 said:

Well the game is obviously low-budget. 

Lol no it's not.

4 years of development. At least 2 of those actually working on the game.

Paying all those people working on it. Plus all the QA and worldwide staff.

It ain't low budget.

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Just now, Mayor D said:

Lol no it's not.

4 years of development. At least 2 of those actually working on the game.

Paying all those people working on it. Plus all the QA and worldwide staff.

It ain't low budget.

It's low-budget when compared to previous Sonic games. Look at Unleashed and tell me that didn't have a much higher budget.

 

This game is full of re-used ideas and assets and zero CGI. 

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It feels like every line of cringe people have a problem with is getting defended and we're being told it's nothing to get mad about. The Sonic getting tortured, true dat, Amy line, and I think there were a few others. I don't see why people don't get why some of us find them really bad given the already poor context and writing going on in the game. It just further shows the really scatter brained characterization 

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The final boss was sort of a eh. Best final boss imo was solaris just for the stakes at hand. well still im giving the game a solid 7. Could have been much better but still looking forward to it. If anything I feel Sega is to scared to go big these days with games.

 

So another question.....do the games even have united stories? I mean i love the stories in the games but like are they even connected anymore? Sonic Adv 1 and 2 linked up and heroes to a extent *@.@ fake shadows and all that* but does generations or this tie to anything in the past really?

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12 minutes ago, azoo said:

The gameplay seems extremely dumbed down and simplified for young children to complete without issue (as if Colors or Generations were challenging, heh), the game is founded on ideas that kids age 8 - 12 would find entertaining, and the plot uses enough of the characters and story groundwork to be entertaining to said age range but not interesting enough to leave an impression on anyone else.

The presentation is built around trying to make a rubberhose cartoon character in a bizarre and whimsical video game series come off as action anime as possible (from the edge to the war to the friendship-centric plot to the narmy vocal themes and weirdly picked credits music), and the plot revolves around congratulating the kid who put themselves in the shoes of the custom character. It doesn't really take the time to emphasize any of the conflict in the game in a meaningful way, the characters never have any meaningful moments, everything happens but without explanation, and ends without fanfare. Just as in LW, the good guys win, the bad guys lose, and we close it up with yet another retread, and that's that.

The game, despite claims of it being made by "the team that brought you Sonic Colors & Sonic Generations", is really just made by Sonic Team in general.. kind of. There's a large amount of outsourcing and different companies that had their hand in the making of this game, almost as much as Sonic Team themselves. And I'm almost certain that whatever part ST's crew actually had a significant hand in for this game, that it was mostly the Sonic Lost World team; as it's reflected in the gameplay, the art style, the writing style, the choice of emphasis for the villains (Zavok gets a lot of almost unnecessary focus), it goes on.

This isn't me tearing into the game really either, just straight observations.

I hate to be that guy, but I kind of want this game to fail, and if there's anything I fear, it's reviewers being complacent about it. On one end I don't think they will, considering Oddysey has just absolutely shown them up (as well as Sonic Mania (ESPECIALLY SO even)), but on the other I worry that because of it being a pretty clean game, critics aren't going to care and just let it slide. Then again, LW got 5s and 6s across the board, but then again again, that still left it getting a PC port and that same team having full reign on the next title.

I don't even know. All this is kinda why I gave up several months ago. Glad to see others are starting to understand why. Well, not glad, but you know what I mean.

Quote

The game, despite claims of it being made by "the team that brought you Sonic Colors & Sonic Generations", is really just made by Sonic Team in general.. kind of. There's a large amount of outsourcing and different companies that had their hand in the making of this game, almost as much as Sonic Team themselves. And I'm almost certain that whatever part ST's crew actually had a significant hand in for this game, that it was mostly the Sonic Lost World team; as it's reflected in the gameplay, the art style, the writing style, the choice of emphasis for the villains (Zavok gets a lot of almost unnecessary focus), it goes on.

This part right here is what I too have thought of. They might have "had" people that did Colors and Generations...But not the entire team lol.

Also, the game actually draws heavily from both. Level design, physics, wisp, etc..

The reason isn't just the team...The man you want to point to is none other than Kishimoto, The director and lead designer of Colors and Lost World(also lead designer of Secret rings and Black knight).

Ever since he's been on with Sega...Sonic's design has been completely stripped of what made him unique. Kishimoto is making Sonic in this particular way so that he appeals to the Nintendo culture/Mainstream audiences. That is why Colors is so blocky, slower, focuses on power ups and platforming...Same with Forces.

Now Lost World...Is a different story and people need to understand that this was a deal they had to agree on for Nintendo. That's why it's the most Mario looking game in the series. This I can understand and I won't heavily criticize but I still think they could have done a lot better with the visuals and level design. At least they added more elements that fit Sonic only(Spin dash, Parkour system, speedy based levels). I'll give Lost World that...They tried to experiment and they sorta fell flat.

Forces however, seems to be this love child between LW and Colors rather than Generations. The boost gameplay(3D) is barely apart of the system...Just thrown in because it's the easiest to do now.

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4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

The final boss was sort of a eh. Best final boss imo was solaris just for the stakes at hand. well still im giving the game a solid 7. Could have been much better but still looking forward to it. If anything I feel Sega is to scared to go big these days with games.

 

So another question.....do the games even have united stories? I mean i love the stories in the games but like are they even connected anymore? Sonic Adv 1 and 2 linked up and heroes to a extent *@.@ fake shadows and all that* but does generations or this tie to anything in the past really?

I see there a conceptual difference between 06 and Forces.

06 was quite ambitious, trying to be SA-alike. But it ended up having shit story, lots of glitches etc.

Forces is quite lazy from the start to the end as if devs were afraid to build something more ambitious... or just incompetent. It still has not really good story and it doesn´t have many glitches, but it´s not due to the good engine. Only thanks to the boost and boostpad design.

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11 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

The grapple hook mechanic is very similar to Sonic Boom’s Enerbeam. Also notice how Avatar (and other background NPS) are much taller than the main cast and has a funny body build? 

Hmmmm. Seems the theories of Boom!Sonic being the third character could be true then?

I think it’s great! ^^ A very sweet song and WAY better than My Destiny.

Actually, the grappling mechanic was from Generations; Espio Mission Seaside Hill. In fact, it was used the exact same way without change. Except for the physics(it was less automated).

And the werehog if you want to count that...

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3 hours ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

 

Amy is like Boom Sonic when it comes to tone and voice but absolutely no personality.

While Knuckles doesn't act stupidly gullible or a "strong boy" he doesn't act like anything special either. Nothing like the hot head from Sonic X or the calm and relaxing guy from his older days. BOOM voice actors just do not translate to these characters at all.

Uh, you do realize they had played them in multiple games before Boom was announced, right?

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1 minute ago, superman43 said:

I see there a conceptual difference between 06 and Forces.

06 was quite ambitious, trying to be SA-alike. But it ended up having shit story, lots of glitches etc.

Forces is quite lazy from the start to the end as if devs were afraid to build something more ambitious... or just incompetent. It still has not really good story and it doesn´t have glitches, but not thanks to the good engine. Only thanks to the boost and boostpad design.

I agree on this. i miss the big feels sa 1 and 2 had back when the dreaamcast  was around and sega acted like they wanted to go big with their games. Sonic 06 honestly for as bad as it was was the last "big" game it feels like sega tried and are now to scared to go big again for fear of a massive fail and instead settle on a smaller take.

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