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Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

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3 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

I think this franchise is a joke to everyone.

The public will see Mania as a fluke and go back to mocking Sonic in two weeks.

If that sounds good to you, then I'm glad for you idk

Anyone worth listening to will know the difference. One is a team of passionate, competent developers and the other is Sonic Team. 

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3 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

I mean, you should know that the Mainstream has always used Sonic as a joke for the most part. Along with Sega's forgotten consoles...

 

I wonder why...

Maybe it's cause SEGA has done some very dumb decisions in the past with their consoles. Maybe that's why they were about to go out of business too.

And maybe it's because Sonic got so many bad games that one which is just average looks like an holy grail to fans.

But hey, as long as it's not unplayable it's great, isn't it?

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1 minute ago, GuyWithThePie said:

Just yesterday someone was attacking me over my thoughts on that screenshot with the five speed boosters in a row.

They said I was probably only getting my opinion from "internet funnymen" like Egoraptor and such. When I responded with" I can form my own opinions, you know" they were all like "No, I don't believe you" and went on a huge rant, making fun of my age and because I sometimes play games like ROBLOX.

This is just one of many examples. I've been called "autistic" and been told to kill myself (Not in a completely serious way, but still) just because I dislike the level design of a video game. These people are insane. I'm sure not all of them are like this, but that's what most of my encounters with them have been like.

I will admit that I have said some pretty immature things about this game, and I do apologize for them. But this is just getting insane. It'll be a long time before the fanbase recovers from this game, if it ever does.

I have nothing against those who simply enjoy this game. You're free to do so. But once you resort to ad hominem and threats, you've lost all my respect.

The game hasn't really done anything...It's not like 06 where everyone had a f*** out. There are lots who love the game and lots who hate it..Pretty average effect in all honestly...

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1 minute ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

The game hasn't really done anything...It's not like 06 where everyone had a f*** out. There are lots who love the game and lots who hate it..Pretty average effect in all honestly...

But there's a difference. 06 is almost universally hated. Forces, on the other hand, is very polarizing.

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34 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, their "tendrils" being all over it kept Sonic actually feeling like Sonic and not some generic, soulless shonen hero.

I kind of feel like their comedy is souless

and the shounen thing is much more interesting. The comedy is generic and not much to shake a stick at, but being a shounen hero is kind of unique in the video game space of 3d platfomers. Sonic being super chesey and taking itself seriously and being super " anime " is why I like sonic, there was an obvious japanese influence in how the characters were constructed.  

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So using the intro scene as a reference (and borrowing a lot of what happens during it into this), I tried to rewrite it to at least not make Tails a whiny helpless victim and flesh out the character with just a few changes:

Spoiler

Town of Apotos, but it is currently in bad shape due to EGGMAN's attack. TAILS is standing in front of a small group of petrified villagers, scared, but putting on a brave face as he takes a stance that he's ready to fight as several of EGGMAN's mechs advance closer. EGGMAN looks down from above in his EGG-O-MATIC, with a sinister grin.

EGGMAN
Citizens of Apotos! Surrender yourselves to the Eggman Empire, and I promise your robotization into my loyal badnik servants will be quick and painless! Oh ho ho ho ho!

TAILS
We're never going to surrender to the likes of you, Eggman!

EGGMAN
Brave words coming from you, Tails! But you alone can't stop me!

The mechs form a semi-circle around the group with blasters pointed. TAILS begins twirling his tails and begins to lift off the ground, when suddenly a blue blur smashes into a trio of mechs.

TAILS
(relieved) Sonic!

SONIC continues to destroy the mechs until they are all defeated. Shot of EGGMAN during this as he grins menacingly. SONIC lands next to TAILS and the villagers, who are cheering.

SONIC
Is everyone alright?

TAILS winks at SONIC.

TAILS
We are, thanks to you. Cutting it kind of close, though, pal.

SONIC winks back.

SONIC
Yeah, that's pretty much how I roll. Go get the villagers to safety while I take care of some unfinished business.

SONIC turns towards EGGMAN.

SONIC
Okay, let's finish this, Eggman!

EGGMAN
It will be your finish, Sonic. Behold the power of my ultimate masterpiece!

SONIC shrugs, then rushes towards EGGMAN. As he leaps up to attack, he gets thwarted by a black blur. Both land on the ground facing each other.

SONIC
Shadow! It's you? What the heck are you doing?

SHADOW stands up, arms crossed and looking solemn. But he has a weird distortion to him. ZAVOK jumps down and lands next to SHADOW, with the same distortion effect.

SONIC
Zavok?!

METAL SONIC lands on the opposite side of SHADOW, again with same distortion effect.

SONIC
Metal?!

CHAOS lands next to METAL SONIC, also with the same distortion effect.

SONIC
Chaos!!

INFINITE lands in-between SONIC and the rest of the group, although the viewers don't know it is him yet. SONIC rubs his nose, smugly, then dashes towards INFINITE and the others, only to miss.

SONIC
Huh?

TAILS is looking back as the last of the villagers escapes.

TAILS
Whoa! That guy was able to dodge Sonic like it was nothing!

SONIC dodges a blast from INFINITE, then leaps up to attack, but misses. INFINITE unleashes a shield that SONIC bounces off of, then roundhouse kicks him into a building.

TAILS
No, wait! There's something else going on! I have to figure this out!

INFINITE blasts at SONIC, but he quickly dodges. SONIC blocks ZOVAK's punch, then knocks him back and leaps up again to take aim at INFINITE. However, SONIC gets blocked by METAL SONIC. SONIC jumps up at INFINITE again, but he simply moves aside. SONIC lands and is instantly confronted by CHAOS. SONIC and CHAOS are now locked together, hand-in-hand. SONIC looks back up at INFINITE.

SONIC
What are you? How are you doing--

INFINITE interrupts SONIC as he zooms in and kicks SONIC aside. SONIC tumbles to the ground several feet away. EGGMAN makes a fist, satisfied.

EGGMAN
Nice!

SONIC
Tails! I need to know what's going on with this guy!

TAILS has his tablet out, punching away at it furiously but looking confused.

TAILS
I'm trying, Sonic but these readings are all messed up! They don't make any sense!

SONIC charges at INFINITE again, but he kicks him into another building. Before SONIC can react, INFINITE is upon him and kicks SONIC up into the air. From there, CHAOS, ZOVAK, METAL SONIC and SHADOW each take turns kicking SONIC around like a ball.

SONIC
Running out of time here, Tails!

TAILS looks up from his tablet and sees that SONIC is losing, badly.

TAILS
Sonic!

TAILS takes flight to try and help SONIC, but INFINITE swiftly kicks SONIC into TAILS. Both go crashing back to the earth.

SONIC
(weakly) Tails... get out of here... now.

TAILS
But, Sonic... let me stay here and help you!

SONIC
(more forceful) Do it!

TAILS looks conflicted, but nods his head and takes off in the direction of the villagers. SONIC stands up and looks back to make sure TAILS gets away safely, before turning back in the direction of the group.

SONIC
I don't know who or what you are, pal, but you're going...

INFINITE comes into view and cuts SONIC off with a series of attacks that has SONIC reeling. SONIC hits the ground one last time, struggling to stand back up, before collapsing. Quick cut to EGGMAN taking in the defeat of SONIC.

EGGMAN
Yes... yes! Finally!

The last thing SONIC sees before he faints is INFINITE landing on the ground in front of him.

Quick rush job and not perfect by any means, but good gravy. It wasn't that hard to not make someone like Tails seem at least somewhat component when faced with danger.

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6 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

Just yesterday someone was attacking me over my thoughts on that screenshot with the five speed boosters in a row.

They said I was probably only getting my opinion from "internet funnymen" like Egoraptor and such. When I responded with" I can form my own opinions, you know" they were all like "No, I don't believe you" and went on a huge rant, making fun of my age and because I sometimes play games like ROBLOX.

This is just one of many examples. I've been called "autistic" and been told to kill myself (Not in a completely serious way, but still) just because I dislike the level design of a video game. These people are insane. I'm sure not all of them are like this, but that's what most of my encounters with them have been like.

I will admit that I have said some pretty immature things about this game, and I do apologize for them. But this is just getting insane. It'll be a long time before the fanbase recovers from this game, if it ever does.

I have nothing against those who simply enjoy this game. You're free to do so. But once you resort to ad hominem and threats, you've lost all my respect.

The war this game has taken on with certain parts of the internet is, unfortunate. Interesting to analyze but it is, unfortunate 

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Honestly, I think the amount of backlash this game is getting is a tad ridiculous. Some people are acting like it's the end of the world. If you don't like and are disappointed, that is fine. If you love it, that is fine too. The thing is, it feels like this is a really bad case of fans vs fans right now. There are those who love and those who loathe this game and they are being so passionate, it almost feels like they are at each others throats about it. At least, lurking all 78 pages of this spoiler page has shown me that. From what I seen, I don't see why it's so wrong for casuals/fans to love this? That first streamer who says he hasn't played a Sonic game since Sonic

 Adventure 1, he seemed to be having a blast. Some others watching said it looked really cool.

I know how defensive some Sonic fans gets, and how much they want it to improve. But saying "I hope it flops and does horrible in sales" is not going to make it better. If they lose tons of sales and have to let go of even more workers at Sega/Sonic Team. That won't be good. How will we get more games then if they eventually keep firing more and more and then go bankrupt and we get no more Sonic games? The thing to do here is give them good criticism and hope they listen. Not try and hope it fails, because that could bring down the whole ship.

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Just now, GuyWithThePie said:

But there's a difference. 06 is almost universally hated. Forces, on the other hand, is very polarizing.

Forces is polarizing but you have to keep in mind that this game is getting more positive reception than negative. When everyone gets the game is? Then we'll decide the fate of Forces. And not only that, it was made for the mainstream audience so I doubt this will hurt the franchise to a large degree.

It's a mixed reaction but favoring more towards positivism.

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1 minute ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Forces is polarizing but you have to keep in mind that this game is getting more positive reception than negative. When everyone gets the game is? Then we'll decide the fate of Forces. And not only that, it was made for the mainstream audience so I doubt this will hurt the franchise to a large degree.

It's a mixed reaction but favoring more towards positivism.

It's a mess everywhere I checked but alright, we'll see in two weeks.

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12 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

Just yesterday someone was attacking me over my thoughts on that screenshot with the five speed boosters in a row.

They said I was probably only getting my opinion from "internet funnymen" like Egoraptor and such. When I responded with" I can form my own opinions, you know" they were all like "No, I don't believe you" and went on a huge rant, making fun of my age and because I sometimes play games like ROBLOX.

This is just one of many examples. I've been called "autistic" and been told to kill myself (Not in a completely serious way, but still) just because I dislike the level design of a video game. These people are insane. I'm sure not all of them are like this, but that's what most of my encounters with them have been like.

I will admit that I have said some pretty immature things about this game, and I do apologize for them. But this is just getting insane. It'll be a long time before the fanbase recovers from this game, if it ever does.

I have nothing against those who simply enjoy this game. You're free to do so. But once you resort to ad hominem and threats, you've lost all my respect.

Yikes, that's way past uncool.

PSA: Bullying and insulting people for having different opinions is never a good thing in the context of Sonic the Hedgehog video games. I don't care if the target sounded immature or dumb or whatever. Telling somebody to kill themselves is bad. Its also a crappy joke so don't even use that excuse.

Fortunately, this is usually the work of the vocal minority, so I think it will subside pretty quickly. You'd be surprised how short memories are and how quickly people find other things to complain about or focus on.

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6 minutes ago, DawningWolf said:

Honestly, I think the amount of backlash this game is getting is a tad ridiculous. Some people are acting like it's the end of the world. If you don't like and are disappointed, that is fine. If you love it, that is fine too. The thing is, it feels like this is a really bad case of fans vs fans right now. There are those who love and those who loathe this game and they are being so passionate, it almost feels like they are at each others throats about it. At least, lurking all 78 pages of this spoiler page has shown me that. From what I seen, I don't see why it's so wrong for casuals/fans to love this? That first streamer who says he hasn't played a Sonic game since Sonic

 Adventure 1, he seemed to be having a blast. Some others watching said it looked really cool.
 

I'm completely with you here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying Forces, despite it's many, many issues. We all like different things, and that's okay.

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See, This is what happens when you mashup too many ideas from past games together. You wind up with a big ness. I finished all of the cutscenes and I must admit, I missed the interactions between other characters and I was glad to see that back. Even if it was little or forced. I hope that trend continues.

And I must say that they did a damn good job with sonic's lines in this game. Even if sonic sounded like he was in a buddy cop movie.

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38 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

I mean it's not like me and other 10 guys have been saying that the game looks like shit for months, giving actual reasoning to our arguments, while all the defenses were just smokes and mirrors.

I wonder if I'm just a dumb hater or someone who's capable of looking at something with a critical eye

You know. Some people genuinely liked that this game was sold on being more story oriented and gelled with that. They're not the ones selling the game, they just bought the hype. 

That's different from Sega being carneys who have Sonic Team make a cheap game for the sake of taking your money. 

I didn't mind the criticism as much as I did the attitude that accompanied it that seemed to be very dismissive of whatever positives there were. I didn't feel that was a particularly fair mindset. Remember that you can be critical and not talk down to people. And for what it's worth, as defensive as the Pro Forces base got, it never was as bad as the condescension to them. Okay? 

Like yeah. You can like a thing that has flaws or you can be disappointed/hate the thing that has very few positives. What bothered me was how the two sides closed off to one another in the proceedings leading up to this game. There are flaws. But there were some positives too. If you'd be more civil people might be more accepting and have a more well rounded outlook on the game and have a thought on a spectrum instead of having to pick a side. 

That's all that bothered me. It was never the criticism it was the hyperbolic attitude and sometimes just flat out "It's shit lol" responses. 

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54 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

So, Metacritic predictions anyone? What range do you think the review score average will fall?

Remember that Lost World ended up with a 63% average. Forces is a lot more broken and unpolished than SLW was, so I'm leaning to it scoring in the 50s or low 60s overall.

6-7 at best, 5s at worst

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1 minute ago, DawningWolf said:

Honestly, I think the amount of backlash this game is getting is a tad ridiculous. Some people are acting like it's the end of the world. If you don't like and are disappointed, that is fine. If you love it, that is fine too. The thing is, it feels like this is a really bad case of fans vs fans right now. There are those who love and those who loathe this game and they are being so passionate, it almost feels like they are at each others throats about it. At least, lurking all 78 pages of this spoiler page has shown me that. From what I seen, I don't see why it's so wrong for casuals/fans to love this? That first streamer who says he hasn't played a Sonic game since Sonic

 Adventure 1, he seemed to be having a blast. Some others watching said it looked really cool.

I know how defensive some Sonic fans gets, and how much they want it to improve. But saying "I hope it flops and does horrible in sales" is not going to make it better. If they lose tons of sales and have to let go of even more workers at Sega/Sonic Team. That won't be good. How will we get more games then if they eventually keep firing more and more and then go bankrupt and we get no more Sonic games? The thing to do here is give them good criticism and hope they listen. Not try and hope it fails, because that could bring down the whole ship.

There is nothing wrong for making Sonic games cater to more casual. There is nothing wrong for people that love it. Izuka did that for Heroes. It's when you realize that the content the game presents is reused, restricts itself more than ever before and isolates the people that buy their games, it will cause some issues. Maybe major ones. And if Sega sees that this is the biggest way to receive revenue, what will that mean for the Series? Further more, Kishimoto and Nakumura clearly don't understand/and or what to make games cater to Sonic's character.

I'm fine with Sega doing this if they need to increase in sales. It's not a bad move at all to try and divide and conquer to flesh it out. But take out the current guys in charge and find someone else who can do both rather ignore the fans for a subsequent amount of time.

Quote

The thing to do here is give them good criticism and hope they listen. Not try and hope it fails, because that could bring down the whole ship.

There has been. I agree it's a little negative but most of the users here have given good reasoning and don't blindingly hate it or love it. 

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25 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I'm completely with you here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying Forces, despite it's many, many issues. We all like different things, and that's okay.

Seconded--like, I get the glaringly obvious flaws with the game, but they aren't enough for me to enjoy it in an afternoon. It's Sonic the Hedgehog--not Citizen Kane.  I get that we were shown a lot of stuff that threw many of us through a loop, but it doesn't "undo" the potential fun the game might be. It doesn't appear to be a glitchfest--at worst it looks "uninspired" but you could see what the developers were TRYING to do. The big flaw was how much it was being pushed as a some sort of "Sonic game-changer." Whether or not it actually is remains to be seen based on actual numbers.

If this was a $60 game, I'd be having a different conversation. It'd be a game that would be held up to the same standards as a full-priced title like Zelda or Mario. But it's $40 (and even 20% cheaper on Amazon Prime or BB GCU)--not a price that will break me and (hopefully, from what I've seen) not a game that will upset me (there's enough of that in life). 

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23 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

 

But hey, as long as it's not unplayable it's great, isn't it?

Saw an argument that Sonic games are mostly good and we should be grateful because there are worst games out there (specific mentions being Bubsy, Superman 64, ET..). So apparently yes! The bar's just that low now for some.

Not all of course, I'm sure most people who like it have valid reasons.

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30 minutes ago, GuyWithThePie said:

Just yesterday someone was attacking me over my thoughts on that screenshot with the five speed boosters in a row.

They said I was probably only getting my opinion from "internet funnymen" like Egoraptor and such. When I responded with" I can form my own opinions, you know" they were all like "No, I don't believe you" and went on a huge rant, making fun of my age and because I sometimes play games like ROBLOX.

This is just one of many examples. I've been called "autistic" and been told to kill myself (Not in a completely serious way, but still) just because I dislike the level design of a video game. These people are insane. I'm sure not all of them are like this, but that's what most of my encounters with them have been like.

I will admit that I have said some pretty immature things about this game, and I do apologize for them. But this is just getting insane. It'll be a long time before the fanbase recovers from this game, if it ever does.

I have nothing against those who simply enjoy this game. You're free to do so. But once you resort to ad hominem and threats, you've lost all my respect.

That's pretty rough, but that's pretty much the same kind of treatment that those who DO like the game end up getting as well from other and that's significantly more prevalent. A lot of the harshness you're getting is a result of others being treated like that. It's not your fault, but it is understandable, in a way. Even if both examples of it happening are wrong.

I've been used to this kind of treatment for months now, especially since I only think Mania is "good, but not amazing". It's just what you have to expect from others since no matter what you say, you're going to end up getting assaulted by 12 year-olds of various ages because, well, that's what people on the internet do. Especially Sonic fans.

It's wrong as hell, but all you can do is be above it and stand by what you think.

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

Just want to make it perfectly clear here: posting of the Sonic cycle - in any way, shape or form - will get you a swift suspension. You might think you're being funny, but you're being an asshole. 

Clarification question: Is simply referencing fans getting hyped for new Sonic games and then being subsequently disappointed by them against the rules? Or are you specifically talking about posting image memes about it in lieu of actual discussion?

Because, whether we call it by name or not, the concept that the Sonic cycle refers to (that is, fans getting hyped and disappointed by new Sonic games over and over again) is a very real thing that a lot of members here can relate to and discuss. So, just to make sure I'm not out of line here, is that okay to discuss? I really would hope so.

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21 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

There is nothing wrong for making Sonic games cater to more casual. There is nothing wrong for people that love it. Izuka did that for Heroes. It's when you realize that the content the game presents is reused, restricts itself more than ever before and isolates the people that buy their games, it will cause some issues. Maybe major ones. And if Sega sees that this is the biggest way to receive revenue, what will that mean for the Series? Further more, Kishimoto and Nakumura clearly don't understand/and or what to make games cater to Sonic's character.

I'm fine with Sega doing this if they need to increase in sales. It's not a bad move at all to try and divide and conquer to flesh it out. But take out the current guys in charge and find someone else who can do both rather ignore the fans for a subsequent amount of time.

There has been. I agree it's a little negative but most of the users here have given good reasoning and don't blindingly hate it or love it. 

Oh no, there is definitely a lot of room for improvement. Unleashed still sits as my favorite Sonic game. I am not saying they don't need to change directors/workers, because they should. Ever since Generations, Sonic has been pretty meh.  Even Generations to me, while fun, didn't fill my cup. I enjoyed it, but I still go back to Unleashed way more than Generations, as good of a game it is. Though as I said, even if this game sells well, it doesn't mean they will just sit and do the same exact thing. There will come a time where if they make a couple games that feel the exact same, they will continue to get a lot more complaints if it stays the exact same and not trying to improve, despite sales going up.

I am not saying all complaints are not valid either, I can see where they are coming from. But maybe I just have lower standards than most.

Side Note: I was told I was insane for thinking Sonic Mania isn't the best Sonic game since slice bread. I played and enjoyed it, but once again it only satisfied me for only a few hours. I guess I was never a huge fan of 2D Sonic, but it's not a game I will be going back to again and again for a few months. Doing daily challenges, going for S ranks on every level, and all those collectibles will keep me playing for a couple months in Forces.

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