Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[Razule]

53 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, I'm not trying to throw people under the bus...BUT...

If people actually like this stuff, then that's just gonna give Sonic team that its perfectly ok to make games like this and they'll simply continue doing so. 

At this point, nobody but the most diehard of fans actually care what happens to this series and the ones that like this stuff are the ones who relatively new and don't understand what's wrong with them. They just see cool things and think "OH THIS GAME IS AWESOME".

So yea...that's the name of the game now.

What really decides things in the end is if the game sells well. But there's so much positivity about it on other sites that I just don't know.. it might not actually do as bad as many predict.

If this works out then.. they've hit the jackpot

[dbzfan7]

2 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

.... Well I mean I'm normally against that, as the more people overall can enjoy something, the better. If a game can nail as much appeal and engagement down as possible, that makes it all the stronger as a game.

... But when we're talking Sonic Team, plot/seriousness, and preferences... the amount of diminishing returns is waaaaay to high for anyone to justify it objectively in the slightest. I don't ever want to resort to mudslinging, and people should be able to like what they like and want what they want, but when stuff like this is attached to

so

much

baggage, it's hard to justify wanting to include it, or even tolerating it's inclusion, as it indirectly hurts the game as a whole when it is used, as history has proven.
 

It's ridiculous that we, as a franchise and fanbase, have to treat any serious situation as "edgy" in advance because Sonic Team specifically makes multiple failures in this regard, though. Whereas something like Mario Galaxy gets praised from earth to the moon and back for treating something seriously and grand, because they don't have those failings.

It's just

ugh

I know I hate that so much with today's standards. Mario does "edgy" stuff plenty when it tells an actual story. Look no further than the RPG games. But when Sonic wants to it's treated as worthless. Which leads to an unholy character balance and stories where really there's only gameplay to care about, with nothing at all being compelling. Heck you don't even have to be "edgy" to be compelling, but the completely light hearted stories tend to be dull, uninteresting, and nothing to care about when literally the characters don't care most of the time.

[Multikaris]

3 minutes ago, Cyalume said:

There's 83 pages of this at this point, so I hope you all won't mind if I ask this as opposed to reading them all:

So, is the game a complete bomb, then? Is it worth the money, in your opinion? What's the verdict?

It’s likely this is the straw that severs the camel’s already irreparably broken in multiple places, recently infected back in two. But i’m Still interested in what else is left of the game.

[StaticMania]

7 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I know I hate that so much with today's standards. Mario does "edgy" stuff plenty when it tells an actual story. Look no further than the RPG games. But when Sonic wants to it's treated as worthless. Which leads to an unholy character balance and stories where really there's only gameplay to care about, with nothing at all being compelling. Heck you don't even have to be "edgy" to be compelling, but the completely light hearted stories tend to be dull, uninteresting, and nothing to care about when literally the characters don't care most of the time.

Sonic has yet to find its own style...we want it to be less self-aware than Mario, and introduce characters in respectable ways so they don't have to get the one and done.

[dbzfan7]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Sonic has yet to find its own style...we want it to be less self-aware than Mario, and introduce characters in respectable ways so they don't have to get the one and done.

I just want a story that respects the characters, has fun with its scenario, knows when to joke, knows when not to joke, and doesn't either have the heroes be too overpowered. This could easily be light hearted or serious. You can be light hearted while still not treating a scenario as a boring waste of time. You can be light hearted without making the threat be near non existent.

[StaticMania]

Just now, dbzfan7 said:

I just want a story that respects the characters, has fun with its scenario, knows when to joke, knows when not to joke, and doesn't either have the heroes be too overpowered. This could easily be light hearted or serious. You can be light hearted while still not treating a scenario as a boring waste of time. You can be light hearted without making the threat be near non existent.

Woah now, don't get carried away...Sonic fans can't ask for the whole moon. That's more than Sonic Team can deliver.

[Razule]

13 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I know I hate that so much with today's standards. Mario does "edgy" stuff plenty when it tells an actual story. Look no further than the RPG games. But when Sonic wants to it's treated as worthless. Which leads to an unholy character balance and stories where really there's only gameplay to care about, with nothing at all being compelling. Heck you don't even have to be "edgy" to be compelling, but the completely light hearted stories tend to be dull, uninteresting, and nothing to care about when literally the characters don't care most of the time.

Because Sonic's attempts at it always come off as melodramaric and strange (as the latest one provides us plenty of examples that have been torn apart). There has to be a balance, but Sega has yet to find that, nor do they seem to care to do anything that isn't just reactionary and "how can we make the most money fastest?".

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Woah now, don't get carried away...Sonic fans can't ask for the whole moon. That's more than Sonic Team can deliver.

Even if they do deliver it, it'd still be broken on the side we can't see. 

A perfect metaphor really

[dbzfan7]

6 minutes ago, Razule said:

Because Sonic's attempts at it always come off as melodramaric and strange (as the latest one provides us plenty of examples that have been torn apart). There has to be a balance, but Sega has yet to find that, nor do they seem to care to do anything that isn't just reactionary and "how can we make the most money fastest?".

I thought Black Knight did a good job. It was light hearted, compelling, and then got serious at the end. SA1 I think so as well. I understand why people dislike more serious takes on Sonic. I'm not even pining for it as the end all be all. I just ask for likable heroes, a villain to fight who is an actual obstacle with personality and not a mere speed bump, and some good gameplay....I don't think that's too hard to accomplish on either spectrum.

SA2 to a lesser extent had a great sense of starting off small, and then getting crazier and more wild as it went on, constantly raising the stakes. Though I think the last act didn't need child and old man murder.

[StaticMania]

Nah, Child and Old man mudder was totally necessary...gotta get them tragic themes.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

13 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I thought Black Knight did a good job. It was light hearted, compelling, and then got serious at the end. SA1 I think so as well. I understand why people dislike more serious takes on Sonic. I'm not even pining for it as the end all be all. I just ask for likable heroes, a villain to fight who is an actual obstacle with personality and not a mere speed bump, and some good gameplay....I don't think that's too hard to accomplish on either spectrum.

SA2 to a lesser extent had a great sense of starting off small, and then getting crazier and more wild as it went on, constantly raising the stakes. Though I think the last act didn't need child and old man murder.

SA2 was good on this actually. The child and old man murder is what sets him apart. He's able to go a little further for such a light hearted hedgehog.

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

SA2 was good on this actually. The child and old man murder is what sets him apart. He's able to go a little further for such a light hearted hedgehog.

Not him, that was G.U.N. that killed Maria, Gerald, and I think a bunch of scientists.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

24 minutes ago, Razule said:

Because Sonic's attempts at it always come off as melodramaric and strange (as the latest one provides us plenty of examples that have been torn apart). There has to be a balance, but Sega has yet to find that, nor do they seem to care to do anything that isn't just reactionary and "how can we make the most money fastest?".

Even if they do deliver it, it'd still be broken on the side we can't see. 

A perfect metaphor really

Sega finds it then dumps it in favor of something else. Wanted to build more off of SA2, other Sonic material or Sonic Unleashed's tone? Nope. Here's a tonally disconnected era of Sonic games for the next 7 years. Granted, the disconnect has always been apparent a bit.  They throw all these characters at you and expect you to know them, even more so in this game.

[dbzfan7]

2 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Sega finds it then dumps it in favor of something else. Wanted to build more off of  SA2 or Sonic Unleashed? Nope. Here's a tonally disconnected era of Sonic games for the next 7 years. 

Don't forget Black Knight which imo I think did it the best in tone, story, etc. Too bad about the gameplay though 

[theofficefan99]

Sonic Unleashed had the PERFECT atmosphere. It had an epic and grand feeling without feeling "edgy."

If the Werehog stages were 5-10 mins instead of 30 (or not in the game at all), and there wasn't any ridiculous mandatory Sun and Moon medal requirement, the game would've been so praised. It's a damn shame. 

Sonic Unleashed had the PERFECT atmosphere. It had an epic and grand feeling without feeling "edgy."

If the Werehog stages were 5-10 mins instead of 30 (or not in the game at all), and there wasn't any ridiculous mandatory Sun and Moon medal requirement, the game would've been so praised. It's a damn shame. 

[azoo]

Hey, by the way y'all. 

If you don't want to support Sonic Team's current decisions (especially after learning basically everything there is to know thanks to the game leaking early), then there is an easy way for you to make your opinion known:

Don't buy it.

If you stop buying bad games, they'll stop making bad games. In the words of Jay Sherman..

Granted, if you do want to see Sonic Team take this path, then buy it, sure. But if not, do not bother. You already know what you need to know about the game.

Still intrigued anyway, but don't want to support them? Use a service like Gamefly or Redbox to rent it (one game a month on GF is like $15, so you get it for a month for half price (more than enough time to play it and send it back)). Sure, GF or RB bought the game to distribute through rental, but your payment is going to them, and not Sega.

Just don't buy it. It's as simple as that. And while there's no telling if it'd make a huge difference in sales (let alone the future of the franchise), do it anyways for yourself. Don't waste your time, energy, happiness and money on something that's only going to leave a bad taste in your mouth and a feeling of disappointment.

Do the right thing.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

Just now, dbzfan7 said:

Don't forget Black Knight which imo I think did it the best in tone, story, etc. Too bad about the gameplay though 

Black knight and Secret rings were good in story. It's a perfect template between light hearted and serious. Though I prefer SA2 and Unleashed tones. SA2 for the wild ride and Unleashed for a more mature yet atmospheric sorta vibe.  The gameplay was actually fine for secret rings. It's clear they are just side titles and it fits the bill. 

I loved Secret Rings but I didn't enjoy Black Knight as much with gameplay.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So I saw all the cutscenes...

It actually was not that bad, but it was hardly outstanding. It was pretty watered down and not as appropriately intense as I was wanting.

I will take back anything bad I said about Infinite since he not only was a creation of Eggman, but was also loyal to Eggman to the end. Still not anything major, but for the most, he's A-OK. Pretty glad to have a Monster of the Week that doesn't do the "betray Eggman" cliche.

Overall...this is pretty average. Dialogue and action felt stilted and weak a number of times that I couldn't really feel much--Infinite kicking Sonic around, for instance, felt way too choreographed that it was almost like Sonic was forced into holding back and intentionally getting hit so as to make Infinite look dangerous. The movements were so floaty and awkward at times when they should be quick, crisp, and heavy to really convey the impact they were going for.

Now while they could also do better here, Eggman, however, has a serious boost in his characterization, and I hope they continue this for him in the next game. That is what I want out of a villain, even if comedic--I like my antagonists pragmatic and dangerous that they provide a challenge instead of being treated as a joke or an idiot that should know better after the last several times. Now if only they can do better fo other characters.

Also, Silver...I don't mind you being around, but how did you get here from the future?! Like really...

All in all, it's really telling that they were playing it way safer than expected here even when they were going darker and edgier--this is about as dark as a typical Disney movie to be honest, which isn't bad, but it's ironically not as gripping and intense about it which is the sad part. Seriously, you could feel more tension in Unleashed's more action-packed cutscenes by comparison and it wasn't going for a much darker route as Forces...that's how safe and lacking this is!

This was a really promising premise thay they didn't capitalize on as much as they could've, and could really have done better.

EDIT: Oh, also, the whole Zavok, Shadow, Chaos, and Metal Sonic being illusion was incredibly lame and anticlimactic. They would've been better off just leaving it with Infinite, and for fucks sake why not use the REAL fucking Metal Sonic?!?

[Autosaver]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

It’s likely this is the straw that severs the camel’s already irreparably broken in multiple places, recently infected back in two. But i’m Still interested in what else is left of the game.

The game honestly doesn't look terrible. SEGA did a horrible job when it comes to PR by constantly showing us the worst stages in the game. SEGA shouldn't have hyped up bringing back Shadow, Chaos, Metal Sonic, and Zavoc either as they threw it all away and purposely mislead people. The story is kind of shit, but that isn't anything new.

From people that played the game, they're saying its something in between Lost World and Colors.

[Swing]

20 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Don't forget Black Knight which imo I think did it the best in tone, story, etc. Too bad about the gameplay though 

Sega always put the most effort into her presentation. That is the fuel that keeps the Sonic franchise running. Sonic was never really popular because of his gameplay, maybe the 2d ones, but in the 3D but mostly because of its cool characters and their designs, story and overall presentation. 

It seems like 3D Sonics only have too look good but not play good.

[TheOcelot]

23 minutes ago, azoo said:

If you stop buying bad games, they'll stop making bad games. 

Pffft. Oh come on Azoo, this is Sonic Team we're talking about. SLW and RoL were bad games, didn't sell well and they still made Forces yet another lackluster entry.

Sonic Team aren't going to listen to us. They're just gonna to keep doing what they want to do, making bad game after bad game.

 

At this point I just want a Mania 2 by Team Mania (with no Sonic Team involvement). #ThankGodForSonicMania 

[azoo]

Just now, TheOcelot said:

Pffft. Oh come on Azoo, this is Sonic Team we're talking about. SLW and RoL were bad games, didn't sell well and they still made Forces yet another lackluster entry.

Sonic Team aren't gonna listen to us. They're just gonna keep doing what want to do, making messy game after messy game.

 

At this point I just wanted a Mania 2 by Team Mania (with no Sonic Team involvement). #ThankGodForSonicMania 

 

Hence the last paragraph,

21 minutes ago, azoo said:

Just don't buy it. It's as simple as that. And while there's no telling if it'd make a huge difference in sales (let alone the future of the franchise), do it anyways for yourself. Don't waste your time, energy, and happiness on something that's only going to leave a bad taste in your mouth and a feeling of disappointment.

Do the right thing.

 

[theofficefan99]

I would say that this game is a result of not having too much budget to work with... Idk. Because very little seems actually new/original. Which is why I'm kind of willing to buy it. Cuz as much as I'm disappointed in this game, i don't want the Sonic series to turn into pachinko machines

[The Deleter]

17 minutes ago, azoo said:

Hey, by the way y'all. 

If you don't want to support Sonic Team's current decisions (especially after learning basically everything there is to know thanks to the game leaking early), then there is an easy way for you to make your opinion known:

Don't buy it.

If you stop buying bad games, they'll stop making bad games. In the words of Jay Sherman..

Granted, if you do want to see Sonic Team take this path, then buy it, sure. But if not, do not bother. You already know what you need to know about the game.

Still intrigued anyway, but don't want to support them? Use a service like Gamefly or Redbox to rent it (one game a month on GF is like $15, so you get it for a month for half price (more than enough time to play it and send it back)). Sure, GF or RB bought the game to distribute through rental, but your payment is going to them, and not Sega.

Just don't buy it. It's as simple as that. And while there's no telling if it'd make a huge difference in sales (let alone the future of the franchise), do it anyways for yourself. Don't waste your time, energy, and happiness on something that's only going to leave a bad taste in your mouth and a feeling of disappointment.

Do the right thing.

Or buy it used. 's what I'm doing. (I think...)

3 minutes ago, Autosaver said:

The game honestly doesn't look terrible. SEGA did a horrible job when it comes to PR by constantly showing us the worst stages in the game. SEGA shouldn't have hyped up bringing back Shadow, Chaos, Metal Sonic, and Zavoc either as they threw it all away and purposely mislead people. The story is kind of shit, but that isn't anything new.

From people that played the game, they're saying its something in between Lost World and Colors.

 

With how different the playstyles are, it's definitely more a Lost World than a Colors, imo. That's close enough to the "terrible" status to be noteworthy, honestly.

3 minutes ago, TheOcelot said:

Pffft. Oh come on Azoo, this is Sonic Team we're talking about. SLW and RoL were bad games, didn't sell well and they still made Forces yet another lackluster entry.

Sonic Team aren't going to listen to us. They're just gonna to keep doing what they want to do, making messy game after messy game.

 

At this point I just want a Mania 2 by Team Mania (with no Sonic Team involvement). #ThankGodForSonicMania 

And the alternative is supporting them, and rewarding every bad move they keep making with more money? Critics may be loud, but they're also irrelevant if SEGA gets your money at the end of the day...

[A235]

34 minutes ago, azoo said:

Hey, by the way y'all. 

If you don't want to support Sonic Team's current decisions (especially after learning basically everything there is to know thanks to the game leaking early), then there is an easy way for you to make your opinion known:

Don't buy it.

If you stop buying bad games, they'll stop making bad games. In the words of Jay Sherman..

Granted, if you do want to see Sonic Team take this path, then buy it, sure. But if not, do not bother. You already know what you need to know about the game. Still intrigued anyway, but don't want to support them? Use a service like Gamefly or Redbox to rent it (one game a month on GF is like $15, so you get it for a month for half price (more than enough time to play it and send it back)). Sure, GF or RB bought the game to distribute through rental, but your payment is going to them, and not Sega.

Just don't buy it. It's as simple as that. And while there's no telling if it'd make a huge difference in sales (let alone the future of the franchise), do it anyways for yourself. Don't waste your time, energy, and happiness on something that's only going to leave a bad taste in your mouth and a feeling of disappointment.

Do the right thing.

I partially agree. I won't buy this game too

However, I doubt just individual's act can change Sonic Team's attitude. I think formal collective boycott is more efficient to make our opinions known.

In addition, If they think Sonic game is not sold well, I think they just abandon it instead of refreshing it.

 

 

[theofficefan99]

How could they not know what to do with the IP? Everyone loved Colors, and Unleashed was highly praised outside of Werehog stages.

 

focus on good 3D Sonic gameplay. Don't force dumb filler in because WHO CARES if the game is short; it's better than ruining the fun factor by forcing filler to make the game longer.