Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

[TheBlueGuardian]

1 hour ago, Bobnik said:

I guess with all this negativity surrounded around this game, I think I'll post something that's actually pretty cool (for me at least). Note: this screenshot ain't mine, but I got it from the forum post from a person that got the game early.

Soap Shoes? I smell a Sonic Adventure 2 callback.

[Dr. Mechano]

5 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

Does anyone really consider these guys "old favourites"? They're from forgettable Game Gear titles and if they've been given any personality and connection to Eggman, it's through Archie Sonic. Nack would make far more sense as an old rival type character to Eggman from older days.

Sonic Adventure - He tried to unleash a God of Destruction to destroy the world for him and when things went belly-up, he tried to destroy Station Square out of sheer spite and try to build Eggmanland on it's ashes.

Sonic Adventure 2 - When his plan to extort the planet into submitting to the Eggman Empire went belly-up, he was ready to deliver his promise on destroying the planet and rebuilding. That's why he was desperate to get his hands on the last chaos emerald despite the Eclipse Cannon still having more than enough destructive power.

Sonic Unleashed - Not only was he more than fine with possibly completely destroying the world by shooting into it and cracking it into pieces, but he deliberately unleashed Dark Gaia which he knew could possibly destroy the world in a vain attempt to take over.

 

Let's go through these in order quickly:

SA1 - A city is not the world. 

SA2 - A country is not the world. Remember what Eggman told the president: "Otherwise your country will cease to exist." Country, not entire planet. Eggman wiping off a single country to set an example for the rest of the world's nations is different than killing everyone.

Unleashed - He broke the world into pieces, but people didn't die from it. Non-issue.

 

Never before has Eggman been portrayed as wanting to destroy everyone on the planet. He'd have nobody to rule over if he did that, so Forces strikes me as drastically out of character for that reason.

And sure, I'm fine with bringing in Fang too. He's a cool guy and I wouldn't mind seeing him get dialogue in the games.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Super Mechanio said:

 

Let's go through these in order quickly:

SA1 - A city is not the world. 

SA2 - A country is not the world. Remember what Eggman told the president: "Otherwise your country will cease to exist." Country, not entire planet. Eggman wiping off a single country to set an example for the rest of the world's nations is different than killing everyone.

Unleashed - He broke the world into pieces, but people didn't die from it. Non-issue.

 

Never before has Eggman been portrayed as wanting to destroy everyone on the planet. He'd have nobody to rule over if he did that, so Forces strikes me as drastically out of character for that reason.

Granted, I don't know what he plans to do in Forces. Does he outright say I'm going to destroy the world? 

And in SA2, Yes, a nation. And when we saw a blast from the Eclipse Cannon with six emeralds, it was enough to destroy an entire half of a planet. I very much doubt you can localise that.

[McGroose]

Eggman trashing his empire is of no surprise to me and fits his character well. Eggman is an absolute idiot, he can conquer massive territories but pays little to no focus towards caring for them before or afterwards. We've seen this in Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, etc.That's just a common flaw with Eggman that really... REALLY needs to stop happening. It completely contradicts the idea of a 300 IQ and plot for world domination, insane or otherwise.

And there's no way you'll convince me no one died after Eggman tore the planet apart in Unleashed. That'd be the most family-friendly convenient plot detail to have ever been thought of.

[Tarnish]

3 minutes ago, TheBlueGuardian said:

Soap Shoes? I smell a Sonic Adventure 2 callback.

So, does this means they can use this shoe design whenever they want? It's not tied to a license agreement or something with SOAP? I mean I really doubt they went through a licensing process for 1 unlockable accessory..

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

Granted, I don't know what he plans to do in Forces. Does he outright say I'm going to destroy the world? 

He plans to crash the sun (or at least, a sun conjured by the Phantom Ruby) into the world, destroying everything, claiming he can build on the ashes.

Which makes no sense. He's on the planet as he does this. He'd have been killed too if his plan hadn't been stopped.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Super Mechanio said:

He plans to crash the sun (or at least, a sun conjured by the Phantom Ruby) into the world, destroying everything, claiming he can build on the ashes.

Which makes no sense. He's on the planet as he does this. He'd have been killed too if his plan hadn't been stopped.

Aaaaalright, yeah that's pretty fucking dumb.

[Osmium]

1 hour ago, ShadowSJG said:

What would you change on game's story?

Eh, what the hell. 

Eggman creeps up to Little Planet without anyone knowing. He acquires the time stones (with the help of new cool modern Metal Sonic) and takes them down to Sonic's planet. He uses them to generate this cool turbine looking thing that of course can move time ahead or behind. Eggman takes this turbine thing (it's portable) and lures Sonic and Tails to an isolated place with some badnik attacks and traps them, moving them 6 months into the future (just like in StC). This takes them to the cool Eggman utopia where of course everything is Egg themed and shit. Eggman is getting the appreciation he finally deserves! Except everyone is miserable, either badniks or they are citizens who are usually doing demeaning silly tasks that are just meant to fuel Eggman's ego in some way. Sonic and Tails don't know what to do on the surface and make their way to Angel Island which they hope is isolated from this Eggman shit. They find Angel Island not fallen, but attached to a huge plinth connected to the planet. The entire surface of it looks like Carnival Night on steroids. The master emerald is gone and so is knuckles. Sonic and Tails are frustrated at this point. Sonic wants to fight and bash his way through to Eggman while Tails thinks they should think some and have a plan. Sonic wins the argument and they fight through some crap until they get overwhelmed and taken by ship to one of Eggman's factories where new experimental badniks and parts and cool shit are built. Sonic and Tails break any sort of supervision and Tails builds a plane secretly out of parts everywhere. They fly out with the plane and try to find a place that may be easier to attack with thought. They notice that a lot of Eggman's infrastructures are actually quite shoddy, rusty, and collapsing somewhat as he can't keep control of everything easily. They start to attack these places and break them apart from the grid. 

That's just beginning stuff I guess. At some point they should come across Knuckles who was duped by Eggman and is on his side (maybe both out of desperation and Eggman baited him with some cool looking minerals and richness, idk). Like I said, desperation as what choice would he have? Imagine waking up one day, finding 100,000 Eggrobos and Metal Sonic and airships shaped like whales at your doorstep. Anyway they have to get him back on their side. 

This is really aimless but this stuff is more interesting that what Forces did. 

[Polkadi~☆]

I've spoiled myself rotten. Now...

WHAT EVEN HAPPENED TO THIS GAME? It looks like it was completely gutted during development.

The gameplay, I cant give a full explanation on it without playing it. But it looks to lack replayability, as it's entirely spectacle focused instead of gameplay focus. It will lose it's charm over time, before becoming nothing. Just a bit disappointing...

The story, it starts off strong, before just
*plop*
it died. The ending is horribly rushed, and the story feels lackluster. There's nothing for me to talk about due to how lackluster it is. It's a fountain of wasted opportunities.

Infinite.
The new villain, hyped up, spoken of the most. Mystery was added to him. People wanted to know about him. What was behind that mask, how did he become Infinite, who was he before? How did he fuse with the Phantom Ruby? What does he know about the Avatar?
All that... For nothing.
Again, fountain of wasted opportunities. People wanted to know about Infinite, and they knew it, yet there is nothing. He took a backseat to Eggman, and was thrown away. Not saying that Eggman taking the limelight is bad, but it just was not as it was advertised.

 

That's all I can manage to think.

[Balding Spider]

4 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

He plans to crash the sun (or at least, a sun conjured by the Phantom Ruby) into the world, destroying everything, claiming he can build on the ashes.

Which makes no sense. He's on the planet as he does this. He'd have been killed too if his plan hadn't been stopped.

Would he? I mean I thought the Rubys power only effected those under it's spell. But then Infinite changes landscapes too, but then that was also because others were under it's influence, but the that would also mean we take into account tha-This power is fucking garbage and so is the story.

[Rian]

7 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Eggman creeps up to Little Planet without anyone knowing. He acquires the time stones (with the help of new cool modern Metal Sonic) and takes them down to Sonic's planet. He uses them to generate this cool turbine looking thing that of course can move time ahead or behind. Eggman takes this turbine thing (it's portable) and lures Sonic and Tails to an isolated place with some badnik attacks and traps them, moving them 6 months into the future (just like in StC). This takes them to the cool Eggman utopia where of course everything is Egg themed and shit. Eggman is getting the appreciation he finally deserves! Except everyone is miserable, either badniks or they are citizens who are usually doing demeaning silly tasks that are just meant to fuel Eggman's ego in some way. Sonic and Tails don't know what to do on the surface and make their way to Angel Island which they hope is isolated from this Eggman shit. They find Angel Island not fallen, but attached to a huge plinth connected to the planet. The entire surface of it looks like Carnival Night on steroids. The master emerald is gone and so is knuckles. Sonic and Tails are frustrated at this point. Sonic wants to fight and bash his way through to Eggman while Tails thinks they should think some and have a plan. Sonic wins the argument and they fight through some crap until they get overwhelmed and taken by ship to one of Eggman's factories where new experimental badniks and parts and cool shit are built. Sonic and Tails break any sort of supervision and Tails builds a plane secretly out of parts everywhere. They fly out with the plane and try to find a place that may be easier to attack with thought. They notice that a lot of Eggman's infrastructures are actually quite shoddy, rusty, and collapsing somewhat as he can't keep control of everything easily. They start to attack these places and break them apart from the grid. 

Sounds like fun, and also very Samurai Jack-esque. This is actually what I thought the game's plot was gonna be at first, and I was surprised to find out there wasn't any time travel or dimension hopping involved (not counting Classic Sonic)

Long ago in a distant land, I, Eggman, the genius master of robots, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish hedgehog wielding a magic ring stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time, and flung him into the future where my evil is law. Now the fool seeks to return to the past and undo the future that is Eggman!

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, Polkadi said:

Again, fountain of wasted opportunities. People wanted to know about Infinite, and they knew it, yet there is nothing. He took a backseat to Eggman, and was thrown away. Not saying that Eggman taking the limelight is bad, but it just was not as it was advertised.

I want you to understand that Eggman fans, by and large, aren't happy either.

Eggman was written pretty badly in this game, and the premise - which should have been his moment to shine - kinda doesn't get any real focus at all. We don't get to really see what Eggman does with the world under his control to any real degree, and the game feels like just another typical Sonic adventure because of it, without any higher stakes than usual whatsoever.

Eggman is also a lot flatter and duller in this game than usual, and overall doesn't come across as a particularly strong presence despite ending up as the main villain. It feels like a phyric victory; Yeah, he's the final boss, but he's written so shoddily and he's actually in so little of the game that that's not even exciting. 

No villain in this story ended up being remotely compelling, and the heroes were rubbish as well.

[Joellui]

I just want to know, why the hell didn't anyone decide to use the Chaos Emeralds! Like did everyone forget they existed.

[Soniman]

4 minutes ago, Joellui said:

I just want to know, why the hell didn't anyone decide to use the Chaos Emeralds! Like did everyone forget they existed.

Because Sonic stories relying in Chaos Emeralds is a tired af cliche? Granted the Sonic stories that don't use them aren't glowing either but I appreciate the effort 

[Osmium]

Also adding to my stuff, it's notable that Eggman only sent them 6 months into the future and not millions or something. This is because he wanted them to see what he did so he can gloat at them. He's not going to sit back in his control room like SatAM Robotnik or later StC, he's going to come out and laugh at them and fight them. Because this all to him is his biggest victory and he wants every single laugh possible. Over his enemies. 

[Celestia]

Scientifically speaking the "Sun" shouldn't have been that close without destroying everything anyway.

Piecing things together, I think Eggman's initial plan was to lure everyone to that location and then have Infinite do something like that to deal with everyone there. It also probably would've destroyed the fortress, but Eggman sacrificing that to destroy Sonic and friends is believable I think. So yeah, I imagine he hightailed it out of there while the "Sun" was still crashing down and only came back when that plan failed, tho' they really should have uh...shown that.

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Because Sonic stories relying in Chaos Emeralds is a tired af cliche? Granted the Sonic stories that don't use them aren't glowing either but I appreciate the effort 

When you widen the scope to the entire world, and bring back so many elements otherwise, avoiding the chaos emeralds borders on being a plothole and shouldn't be applauded tbh

[Joellui]

Just now, Soniman said:

Because Sonic stories relying in Chaos Emeralds is a tired af cliche? Granted the Sonic stories that don't use them aren't glowing either but I appreciate the effort 

I don't think I can agree it's a cliche, when most stories end up alright, depending on what game is being talked about. And I hate when I have to compare Sonic to Mario, but isn't also cliche when Mario always have to rescue Peach? Nintendo keeps doing it because it just works, awhile having different reasons for Bowers has to capture Princess Peach. It should be the same with the Emeralds. 

Find new and compelling reasons as to why to use the Emeralds than completely shoving them towards the side, but that just how I see it.

[___-_]

@Joellui That's what I'm stuck thinking about. Chaos makes his "grand" return and literally no one on the resistance, not even Knuckles, even considers the whereabouts of the Master and Chaos Emeralds this entire story. Not even as a trump card since Sonic's gone, too. And everyone was just so sure the ruby was all to be concerned about. No sub plot or twist to anything. The more I think through this, the more I have to come to terms that Sonic Team just don't look past the current game they're working on.

[Celestia]

It's true that not every Sonic story needs the Emeralds. Them being absent plot-wise in Colours (DS version aside) and LW wasn't really notable since their stories were pretty small scale, and they didn't involve something like Chaos or the Eclipse Cannon or the Gaia Temples. There's ways you could have fit them into those games even as a subplot tho' (maybe use them to shut down each generator in Colours, and in LW's case you could have the D6 hunting them down (at first for Eggman and later for themselves) or something), and their absence here is really strange, as people are already pointing out lol.

[Razule]

42 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

He plans to crash the sun (or at least, a sun conjured by the Phantom Ruby) into the world, destroying everything, claiming he can build on the ashes.

Which makes no sense. He's on the planet as he does this. He'd have been killed too if his plan hadn't been stopped.

That doesn't make any goddamn sense even for Eggman..! What?! What's even the point, he's already taken over the world! What's he gonna rule over?! This isn't SatAM Eggman, he wants to rule over people, not robots! I thought he was just going to use the sun the destroy to Resistance.

[McGroose]

14 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

 The more I think through this, the more I have to come to terms that Sonic Team just don't look past the current game they're working on.

Which makes the next 3D Sonic game to come out the game-dealer or game-breaker when it comes to Sonic in my eyes. This game proves that Sega has absolutely no idea what it's doing. They haven't found a definitive style and are scrambling together ideas in a desperate attempt to make something work, trying to appease everyone and therefore appeasing no one. Who knows what the next 3D game will be like since, with the exception of Modern Sonic having a boost (and LW and ROL removed that), there's very little sense of where 3D Sonic should go and anyone can assume what the next game can be like at this point. If we get something that's a genuine improvement over this piece of shit, than I'll be impressed and I'll stick with the series. If we get something that clearly shows Sega is still fucking stupid and is willingly choosing to continue producing titles of obvious piss-poor quality, then I'm done. At that point I'd be convinced that there's no hope for this series unless Sonic Team undergoes a massive staff overhaul or the Sonic IP is handed over to another company for good (besides BRB anyway, poor guys).

[Fletch]

22 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Because Sonic stories relying in Chaos Emeralds is a tired af cliche? Granted the Sonic stories that don't use them aren't glowing either but I appreciate the effort 

I do appreciatethe effort to not use the Chaos Emeralds all the time, but I think when we have a story about Eggman conquering 99% of the world, you'd think that at some point in the story the heroes would consider to seek out the Chaos Emeralds for help, especially when there's a new villain using this mysterious Phantom Ruby powers that completely leave the heroes struggling whenever it's used.

Just... The omission of them is a bit eyebrow raising.

[RLS Legacy]

What a difference 7 years makes.

By which of course I mean 7 years apparently make no difference whatsoever.

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, RLS Legacy said:

What a difference 7 years makes.

By which of course I mean 7 years apparently make no difference whatsoever.

This image triggers me.

Again back to my one of points I made earlier: not only are the levels within the game itself samey, the levels look the same across the boost games.