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Dash Speed

Sonic plots should have professional writers

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Ian Flynn is good in some respects, but his plots are based on Archie established cannon and not fully well interpreted. His style is to biased towards things he likes about sonic, but I feel a writer like xmens Claremont or ultimate spideys Brian Michael Bendis would make Sonic a better series if not closer to the games.

Writers should focus on establishing a main focus on what the sources tell, not a fan take to them. Team Dark and Big the Cat is one of them, even though cannon wise they have clear roles a traits iizuka put into play. Gimme writers that work in ideas approved from the main developers and allow the comic to use the type of ideas that makes sonic comic just like the games but with more extended cannon.

That's why I like star wars comics, they aren't so iffy about making up fanfiction for their minor characters to look cool with the cool types. Sonic comics under Ian makes minor like big characters incredibly taken to far in being able to badass moments because the author makes him a favorite.

Just make a comic where everyone shines in their cannon distinct roles, not everyone has to fight on shadows level. Plus I want more than one depiction of sonic written plots from most their own style, I hope every writer does copy Ian after he leaves.

 

 

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Look dude, hate to break it to you, but Pontaff and Nakamura are both professional writers. If I recall correctly, one of the reasons people liked Pontaff back in 2010 was that they weren't fans or some unfortunate producer, programmer, etc. put into the role of writer-- they actually did it for a living and had some good comedies under their belt.

That isn't a defense per say of Pontaff specifically, but I thought that was important because it proves that professional writers are not inherently better at producing good plots and dialogue than fans.

However, I can see your point about not letting the fans get too involved. Most Sonic fans are very passionate and full of ideas, but they often don't know much of anything about design, video game development, etc. We tolerate it when its fans because most of the time they release their work for free and it is almost never expected that they produce works at the quality level of a trained professional. But when we have to pay money for it and its from people who are professionals and presumably went to college for this, it quickly becomes annoying and frustrating. Also, I find that a lot of Sonic fans tend to be short-sighted and so shoot down concepts the moment they get fucked up, only later looking back to see if the problem was the concept or the execution. Sonic Unleashed is a good example of this in action and the consequences they incur in the games that try to be more fan-oriented.

However, like professional reviewer, just because they're unreliable doesn't mean you can't take some cues from what they're saying. If a lot of people are saying "I want level designs in this game to be more open and allow more exploration, as well meatier 3D sections," then you should definitely incorporate longer 3D sections that require and reward you for not just going straight into the planning for the next game. But at the same time, if you get a loud group that are saying "No more linearity, it does nothing but harm!" then you can safely ignore it because it clearly comes from people who don't understand how game design works. Even the most non-linear of titles, whether it be Minecraft or Zelda or the Sims, need some elements of linearity-- the player has to have all the necessary tools and guidance at their disposal to be able to figure out the goal of the game or which goal(s) out of multiple options they want to pursue, as well as know what to do in the game, and in pursuing their desired goals, they go through a sequence of steps (logged as flags that are sequentially set and accessed so that the game knows what you've done, sometimes where you did it, and sometimes when you did it, and can tailor what the game shows you accordingly) which is a part of the definition of linearity.

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2 hours ago, Razule said:

The biggest issue about getting.. "professional" writers (fans and established Sonic alumni can be professionals but whatever), is that, well... who cares about writing for Sonic the Hedgehog? 

Problem $olved

It's a job after all

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8 hours ago, Mad Convoy said:

Look dude, hate to break it to you, but Pontaff and Nakamura are both professional writers. If I recall correctly, one of the reasons people liked Pontaff back in 2010 was that they weren't fans or some unfortunate producer, programmer, etc. put into the role of writer-- they actually did it for a living and had some good comedies under their belt.

That isn't a defense per say of Pontaff specifically, but I thought that was important because it proves that professional writers are not inherently better at producing good plots and dialogue than fans.

However, I can see your point about not letting the fans get too involved. Most Sonic fans are very passionate and full of ideas, but they often don't know much of anything about design, video game development, etc. We tolerate it when its fans because most of the time they release their work for free and it is almost never expected that they produce works at the quality level of a trained professional. But when we have to pay money for it and its from people who are professionals and presumably went to college for this, it quickly becomes annoying and frustrating. Also, I find that a lot of Sonic fans tend to be short-sighted and so shoot down concepts the moment they get fucked up, only later looking back to see if the problem was the concept or the execution. Sonic Unleashed is a good example of this in action and the consequences they incur in the games that try to be more fan-oriented.

However, like professional reviewer, just because they're unreliable doesn't mean you can't take some cues from what they're saying. If a lot of people are saying "I want level designs in this game to be more open and allow more exploration, as well meatier 3D sections," then you should definitely incorporate longer 3D sections that require and reward you for not just going straight into the planning for the next game. But at the same time, if you get a loud group that are saying "No more linearity, it does nothing but harm!" then you can safely ignore it because it clearly comes from people who don't understand how game design works. Even the most non-linear of titles, whether it be Minecraft or Zelda or the Sims, need some elements of linearity-- the player has to have all the necessary tools and guidance at their disposal to be able to figure out the goal of the game or which goal(s) out of multiple options they want to pursue, as well as know what to do in the game, and in pursuing their desired goals, they go through a sequence of steps (logged as flags that are sequentially set and accessed so that the game knows what you've done, sometimes where you did it, and sometimes when you did it, and can tailor what the game shows you accordingly) which is a part of the definition of linearity.

With all this said, it's hard for me to think of what more to add. Especially this part:

8 hours ago, Mad Convoy said:

Also, I find that a lot of Sonic fans tend to be short-sighted and so shoot down concepts the moment they get fucked up, only later looking back to see if the problem was the concept or the execution.

Really glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

At any rate, I do think there's a question of what qualifies someone to be a "professional" writer given that while Ian Flynn is a fan, he's also a writer working in a professional sense. He's made such a name for himself that even IDW recognized him and hired him when they got the Sonic comic liscense. So to blow that off shoots the argument in the foot regarding a fan and a professional--being a major fan of something doesn't make one any less of a professional when working on it. 

Although one reason I definitely recall the reason for Pontaff's hiring, and early praise, was because they were western writers and so it was assumed they'd have a better idea of what the fans would like given Sonic's appeal is dominated in the West. Despite the process of things being more complicated for them (given that we now know they don't have much influence as we would think), those in charge of them, and those that witness their writing upon games post-Colors, we ultimately see that just having western writers, even professional ones at that, isn't enough and we can still wind up with a mess of things.

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I thought it was confirmed awhile back that the writers simply get the cutscenes with moving mouths, and that they put in a script to somewhat match what is going on. I don't think we'll ever get phenomenal writing with the way the development works now, but Colors/LW/Gens have improved from previous games.

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3 hours ago, Autosaver said:

I thought it was confirmed awhile back that the writers simply get the cutscenes with moving mouths, and that they put in a script to somewhat match what is going on. I don't think we'll ever get phenomenal writing with the way the development works now, but Colors/LW/Gens have improved from previous games.

I don't think it's quite like that.  As I understand it, Pontac and Graff basically just did the localisation for Colours, Generations, and Forces, so they'd have been given a generic literal translation of the script and told to make it work for westerners.  Lost World, on the other hand, I recall was a game where they said they had more freedom, but a short deadline; I still imagine they'd have been given the levels, level order, and bosses, though, and basically their job was just to make up the connecting tissue.

You won't get a good plot if the writers aren't working directly with the development team, and localisation can only do so much to polish a distinctly unpolished story, so there's not really much point in calling for Ian Flynn to be put on the games.  At the end of the day, if Sonic continues to be developed in Japan it will need writers who live and work in Japan, speak Japanese, and go into the office with the rest of the team every day so that the whole team can truly collaborate and put their ideas together.  Those writers should still be professionals, though.  Not that they aren't already, but I'm not sure how the topic opener is defining "professional."

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The last thing I want is the comics to be more like the games' shitty writing. Or for it to waste characters like they do.

17 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

That's why I like star wars comics, they aren't so iffy about making up fanfiction for their minor characters to look cool with the cool types.

 

Don't read Vader Down if you don't like fanfiction!

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13 hours ago, Razule said:

The biggest issue about getting.. "professional" writers (fans and established Sonic alumni can be professionals but whatever), is that, well... who cares about writing for Sonic the Hedgehog? 

Thank you. Guys like Chris Claremont or Brian Michael Bendis wouldn't give two shits about Sonic The Hedgehog.

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