Should SEGA get a new Sonic Team all together? Warning: Possible Forces Spoilers

[RedFox99]

Given the overall mixed-to-negative reception of Forces after the leak on this site, it seems clear that fans on this site at least aren't happy with Sonic Team. I remember hearing from someone that they should scrap the entire members and hire new people and I wanted to see what you guys though?

To me, it seems like a double-edged sword. I mean sure they could get better people working on the games but they could also end up getting people worse at gameplay and stories.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

For me it's a little too early to tell since major reviews for forces aren't out yet but personally, I would like to see a new team, but it's not gonna happen. They have chosen to go the direction that they're going now and they don't plan on changing that it seems. Plus, like you said, a new team could also make the games and stories worse as well as better.

Like, with sonic teams history, it's always- start off good-the story is bad-gameplay is ok- this games story is ok- gameplay sucks ducks- good game- poor story.

Now we've reached a point where fans don't like story and gameplay. It's never any consistency. They need to be consistently good again.

[James Cloud]

Very unlikely not gonna happen no matter how most of this board wants it they pretty much is on this direction now. Plus reviews are definitely have to wait and see (excluding that leak on 40 early reviewers)

[RedFox99]

2 minutes ago, A Zombie KING and 35 other said:

For me it's a little too early to tell since major reviews for forces aren't out yet but personally, I would like to see a new team, but it's not gonna happen. They have chosen to go the direction that they're going now and they don't plan on changing that it seems. Plus, like you said, a new team could also make the games and stories worse as well as better.

Like, with sonic teams history, it's always- start off good-the story is bad-gameplay is ok- this games story is ok- gameplay sucks ducks- good game- poor story.

Now we've reached a point where fans don't like story and gameplay. It's never any consistency. They need to be consistently good again.

3

Didn't we already reach that point with '06?

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

Just now, RedFox99 said:

Didn't we already reach that point with '06?

Yeah, I forgot about that one.

All that PR talk about not rushing games, reinvigorating the sonic brand or some crap, they haven't learned a thing 

[RedFox99]

Just now, A Zombie KING and 35 other said:

Yeah, I forgot about that one.

All that PR talk about not rushing games, reinvigorating the sonic brand or some crap, they haven't learned a thing 

It's kind of sad. Looking at the story, it kind of makes me glad Cream and Blaze weren't in it.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

7 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

It's kind of sad. Looking at the story, it kind of makes me glad Cream and Blaze weren't in it.

Spoiler

They didn't need to be. In the end, I really hate how all of this turned out because I know me and a whole lot of other fans were glad to see the other characters doing more and having more interactions so I can forgive the story a little for that. I hate how eggman and infinite's conclusions were left hanging on loose ends.

And tails....

Adventure-classic-archie-megadrive-boom tail- heck, even aosth tails wouldn't put up with that crap he goes through in this game.

 

[RedFox99]

5 minutes ago, A Zombie KING and 35 other said:

  Hide contents

They didn't need to be. In the end, I really hate how all of this turned out because I know me and a whole lot of other fans were glad to see the other characters doing more and having more interactions so I can forgive the story a little for that. I hate how eggman and infinite's conclusions were left hanging on loose ends.

And tails....

Adventure-classic-archie-megadrive-boom tail- heck, even aosth tails wouldn't put up with that crap he goes through in this game.

 

Honestly, to me the loose ends are jarring.

[Joellui]

Yes.

Honestly Sega should give other developer the right to make a Sonic game. Just imagine a game developed by Platinum Games, I think that would be great.

[Korke]

Boom has kinda traumatized the fans, leading to the common thought that "Sonic outside SoJ will always be trash".

After all the 'apologies' made by SEGA, Forces is a clear insult to every Sonic fan. It's time to un-do this fear of a Sonic without ST/SoJ.

[RedFox99]

7 minutes ago, Korke said:

Boom has kinda traumatized the fans, leading to the common thought that "Sonic outside SoJ will always be trash".

After all the 'apologies' made by SEGA, Forces is a clear insult to every Sonic fan. It's time to un-do this fear of a Sonic without ST/SoJ.

I mean Dimps and Headcanon made alright games, am I right?

[CottonCandy]

It's quite obvious the passion they used to have when making these games, isn't present anymore. The team just need some new blood but I don't think they should be disbanded all together. I know forces is a letdown but throwing away an entire team because of it? Eh, that's a bit of an overreation to a game like forces.

[Zippo]

I personally think they need to go back to making other things for awhile. A new Nights, Samba De Amigo, ChuChu Rocket or Billy Hatcher will do them some good.

Just let Taxman and co. handle Sonic for now while they evaluate their next move.

[Detective Kaito]

The developers themselves aren't the problem. It's the director, mainly Morio Kishimoto, he's the one that needs to be fired.

[RedFox99]

16 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I personally think they need to go back to making other things for awhile. A new Nights, Samba De Amigo, ChuChu Rocket or Billy Hatcher will do them some good.

Just let Taxman and co. handle Sonic for now while they evaluate their next move.

That's a good idea.

10 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

The developers themselves aren't the problem. It's the director, mainly Morio Kishimoto, he's the one that needs to be fired.

What other directors do you have in mind?

[Detective Kaito]

8 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

What other directors do you have in mind?

 

I don't know, Sonic has had a lot of directors and they've never really been consistent, with Morio Kishimoto being the only exception. He directed Colors, Lost World, and Forces. He's shown time and time again that his 3D level design is shit, and that his 2D level design is too blocky. He's the reason why the level design sucks, and he's the one that should be fired, along with Takashi Iizaku maybe. lol

[Multikaris]

7 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I don't know, Sonic has had a lot of directors and they've never really been consistent, with Morio Kishimoto being the only exception. He directed Colors, Lost World, and Forces. He's shown time and time again that his 3D level design is shit, and that his 2D level design is too blocky. He's the reason why the level design sucks, and he's the one that should be fired, along with Takashi Iizaku maybe. lol

If he’s responsible for the “literally nothing matters” writing of recent games, then sure. Along with all of his false face of happiness on a franchise he desperately wants to be relieved of.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Yes

[Scar]

Most of the grunts who make the games can stay. They're all more than competent developers. There does however, need to be a serious change in the creative department and game design department. Somebody with vision and ambition need to take the reigns here, and put all the undoubtedly talented developers to work and produce something great.

You see the amount of love in Odyssey? I want that in a Sonic game. A game which takes simple mechanics (based on the classics) and produces levels that allow creative use of those mechanics to complete levels/objectives.

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, Stritix said:

This feels like it warrants its own thread instead of cluttering the spoilers thread.

Sonic Forces is bizarrely lacking content with possibly the most automated and linear level design seen in a 3D Sonic game to date. Most of the game is 2D with 3D sections being fully automated with control taken out of the player's hands. Levels are short and usually last for 1-2 minutes at a time. Not to mention, it's being sold for £27.99 which is almost half the price of new AAA titles. Also, take a look at this:

What's going on? I'm baffled. There has either been some type of downsizing at Sonic Team or is there possibly another title in the works? The latter is purely speculation but I can't understand how Sonic Forces has turned out the way it has.

This seems relevant to the topic.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

53 minutes ago, Scar said:

You see the amount of love in Odyssey? I want that in a Sonic game. A game which takes simple mechanics (based on the classics) and produces levels that allow creative use of those mechanics to complete levels/objectives.

Odyssey does so many fun things with Mario's abilities and unique twists on familiar gameplay routines. What if Sonic had to use a treadmill to power some huge mechanism and then rush over to get through an opening? Or how about those memorable gameplay images that Mario Odyssey creates? I've had this vision in my mind for the pre-climax of a Sonic game, where Eggman's drilling into the ground with a drillpiece the size of a skyscraper. Sonic is running along the grooves, so quickly that he's outpacing the turn speed. We get a wide shot of him steadily making progress up the drill.

I dunno, inspired stuff like that!

[Speedi]

Sonic Team's overall staff is a fine group of competent programmers, each boost game has gotten steadily more polished so I don't have a problem with the team on a technical aspect. The problem lies in certain directors and level designers who can end up making a game that should be good bad because they lack the understanding of what the appeal of Sonic The Hedgehog actually is. 

I don't think I speak for myself when I say that I really don't want Kishimoto or any level designers who worked exclusively on Colors, Lost World and Forces to ever have major involvement in a Sonic game again. They just don't get the appeal of Sonic in general or the boost gameplay, turning 3D sections into small hallways with no interesting design to them and 2D sections that lack any sort of flow or sense of speed that you'd expect from an Unleashed style game.

[RedFox99]

It seems that Kishimoto may be behind a lot of questionable decisions in the recent games.

[Mad Convoy]

Honestly, its hard to say if Forces isn't already the product of a new team (or at least a team of mostly new members). We already know that the level design thing is all newbies and that Kishimoto didn't do any level design for Forces.

I'm starting to think that the problem isn't that Sega's sticking with a Sonic Team that no longer cares and isn't competent. Its that they have a perfectly good Sonic Team already available for use, but rarely put them together to work on projects together. Instead they keep putting a bunch of new people or giving people new roles that they aren't used to or aren't good at. And then fail to use the talented people in their marketing departments to their full potential.

A shame. When said perfectly good Sonic Team actually does get to come together, we get awesome stuff like Sonic Generations and Sonic Unleashed. But it doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

[Multikaris]

9 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

Honestly, its hard to say if Forces isn't already the product of a new team (or at least a team of mostly new members). We already know that the level design thing is all newbies and that Kishimoto didn't do any level design for Forces.

I'm starting to think that the problem isn't that Sega's sticking with a Sonic Team that no longer cares and isn't competent. Its that they have a perfectly good Sonic Team already available for use, but rarely put them together to work on projects together. Instead they keep putting a bunch of new people or giving people new roles that they aren't used to or aren't good at. And then fail to use the talented people in their marketing departments to their full potential.

A shame. When said perfectly good Sonic Team actually does get to come together, we get awesome stuff like Sonic Generations and Sonic Unleashed. But it doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

Due to recent events, I don’t think that will happen again.