Sonic Forces Development Speculation (Spoilers)

[Tarnish]

12 minutes ago, Sky The Destroyer said:

Well, I doubt that the graphical team has the same people as the game design team, so the question becomes of what were the game team people doing during the Hedgehog Engine development time...which was apparently just a couple of years of...concepts.

True, but still it seems they have pretty weird priorities. Pour 2 years and who knows how much money into a state of the art engine, then use said engine to quickly throw together a budget title? So do they want to save on money or not?

I mean I guess the engine cost a pretty penny so they had to draw a line and not spend another fortune on the actual game, but they didn't do that with Unleashed where they also had the then brand new engine and still seemed to spare no expense on the game itself.

[Sky]

16 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

True, but still it seems they have pretty weird priorities. Pour 2 years and who knows how much money into a state of the art engine, then use said engine to quickly throw together a budget title? So do they want to save on money or not?

Yeah, I hear you. Some have speculated that Sonic Team may have another project in development, and this new development news kind of brings some decent hope to that theory. If Sonic Team turns out another project next year, my guess is that they may have wanted to toss a budget title out or something for whatever (possibly upper management) reason.

The Hedgehog Engine 2 isn’t exclusive to Forces just like the original Hedgehog Engine wasn’t exclusive to Unleashed - it was used in Generations and Lost World, after all.

[Tarnish]

1 minute ago, Sky The Destroyer said:

The Hedgehog Engine 2 isn’t exclusive to Forces just like the original Hedgehog Engine wasn’t exclusive to Unleashed - it was used in Generations and Lost World, after all.

I know, but you would guess SEGA wants to 'wow' everybody with the introduction of the new engine and that's kinda hard with a budget title. I feel they did that with Unleashed: "Check it out people, new engine, new gameplay, EPIC story, state of the art CGI!"

[Red Hot Jack]

I think this has something to do with console transition, they needed a new engine for the next generation, and would have had to wait 2-3 more years of development to make a game out of it, so they just said "whatever, let's make a fan service fest in one year and release it". I really don't like this decision, it's also true that I couldn't resist without a main Sonic game for a long time, but I would have liked more spin-offs instead of this, would have been pretty good. I'm sad because I liked the concept of Forces but I just don't find it fun to play sadly, it's a pity for me. But I'll be happy if it sells well, since I always support Sonic, and it seems it's doing well enough in sales, they will probably never learn to take their time but without money, there's no budget for the next game, I think.

It's sad because Sanzaru and SEGA took their time with Fire & Ice and it turned out to be a fine game, better than Forces IMO, it's very fun and criminally underrated. So I'm just gonna replay that, and Mania of course. More Sonic for me

[Dejimon11]

4 hours ago, Sky The Destroyer said:

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201711/11145786.html

According to this (and Google Translate, which actually is translating this pretty well!), Sonic Team started basic engine and technological development of Forces about 4 years ago (mainly Hedgehog Engine 2 I'm assuming), with Forces' going through what I'm assuming was a concept phase a year after that, but the actual full-scale production of Sonic Forces began around last year.

So instead of going the Unleashed route of 1.5 years of Hedgehog Engine development and 1.5 years of game development, they went through 3 years of Hedgehog Engine 2 development and decided to spend only 1 year of actual game development.

So tl;dr timeline from this:

2013 - Sonic Team begins Hedgehog Engine 2 development
2014-2016 - Sonic Forces concept development with Nakamura's small team
2016-2017 - Actual Sonic Forces game development

I'll give them credit for making a fully functional game that's as long as colors/gens in that short period. But holy crap this explains so much about the game.

[Johnny Boy]

8 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I'll give them credit for making a fully functional game that's as long as colors/gens in that short period. But holy crap this explains so much about the game.

Sonic Team never learns do they? Good lord man....

[Sonikko]

5 hours ago, Sky The Destroyer said:

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201711/11145786.html

According to this (and Google Translate, which actually is translating this pretty well!), Sonic Team started basic engine and technological development of Forces about 4 years ago (mainly Hedgehog Engine 2 I'm assuming), with Forces' going through what I'm assuming was a concept phase a year after that, but the actual full-scale production of Sonic Forces began around last year.

So instead of going the Unleashed route of 1.5 years of Hedgehog Engine development and 1.5 years of game development, they went through 3 years of Hedgehog Engine 2 development and decided to spend only 1 year of actual game development.

So tl;dr timeline from this:

2013 - Sonic Team begins Hedgehog Engine 2 development
2014-2016 - Sonic Forces concept development with Nakamura's small team
2016-2017 - Actual Sonic Forces game development

Reading this is quite disenheartening.

I'm pretty sure that even if Forces was actively developed for 4 years, it would've turned out to be a pretty mediocre game, since it's not just unpolished, it's rotten at its core.

The Kishimoto team has never been able to put out a good Sonic game, so this was doomed since the very beginning.

But on the other hand, this gives me hope that the "Team A" is working on some other game under wraps, Forces being something they put out real quick 'cause it was a long time since the last 3D Sonic game came out.

[Gabz Girl]

No wonder Sonic Forces looks so unambitious, they only started development on it last year! 

Now that they got all the Hedgehog Engine 2 development out of the way though, this could mean a new Sonic game on next gen consoles will be on the horizon sooner than we think?? *crosses fingers*

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

42 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

Reading this is quite disenheartening.

I'm pretty sure that even if Forces was actively developed for 4 years, it would've turned out to be a pretty mediocre game, since it's not just unpolished, it's rotten at its core.

The Kishimoto team has never been able to put out a good Sonic game, so this was doomed since the very beginning.

But on the other hand, this gives me hope that the "Team A" is working on some other game under wraps, Forces being something they put out real quick 'cause it was a long time since the last 3D Sonic game came out.

I hope so too but I also don't understand where people are getting the idea of a second game being under wraps. I have my own theory for why that is possible but what is everyone else talking about? What have you seen or heard specifically that would credit that idea? Just curious.

[Sonikko]

3 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I hope so too but I also don't understand where people are getting the idea of a second game being under wraps. I have my own theory for why that is possible but what is everyone else talking about? What have you seen or heard specifically that would credit that idea? Just curious.

What gives me hope is that prototype that was mentioned by Endri on Retro years ago.

Some people say it turned out to be the Avatar, but that's far too similar to modern Sonic to be "a totally different thing, not Lost World not the Boost".

[Dannymax440]

I did have a feeling the game had a much shorter development time, but a year with only 3 level designers? I'm surprised the game is actually playable.

[Bobnik]

http://www.twitter.com/ClydeMandelin/status/930294334007545856

So according to this tweet, the tech + R&D took 1 year, then the small team worked on the game. Full production started last year.

So no, doesn't look like they were developing the engine for 3 years and only made the actual game in 1 year. And I seriously doubt there was another, bigger game in the works.

Then again, I don't know shit about game development like most of you, so we don't really know what was going on behind the scenes.

man, mobile can't into embed. or the link just sucks. or i just suck.

[D.K.]

"Team A" is too busy puking out Mario & Sonic minigame collections to be making a bigger game under wraps.

[rahkeesh]

I hope this puts into perspective some of the complaining about needing to fire everyone and start over, etc. It's impressive that they built a high spectacle game that wasn't a total trainwreck in basically one year. This game was rushed out for Christmas of 25th anniversary and the team did pretty well with such limited resources. No sign that they would've produced an amazing game with more time, but it's hard to do much better under those circumstances.

The biggest problem for modern Sonic right now then isn't lack of vision/talent (not to say those aren't lacking). At this point its the kind of budget Sega is willing to allocate to Sonic, and it's not looking like Forces sales are really going to encourage them to increase that.

[Sonikko]

8 minutes ago, rahkeesh said:

I hope this puts into perspective some of the complaining about needing to fire everyone and start over, etc. It's impressive that they built a high spectacle game that wasn't a total trainwreck in basically one year. This game was rushed out for Christmas of 25th anniversary and the team did pretty well with such limited resources. No sign that they would've produced an amazing game with more time, but it's hard to do much better under those circumstances.

The biggest problem for modern Sonic right now then isn't lack of vision/talent (not to say those aren't lacking). At this point its the kind of budget Sega is willing to allocate to Sonic, and it's not looking like Forces sales are really going to encourage them to increase that.

Colours was built in one year and it wasn't the trainwreck Forces is. At least not as glitchy, so, and for how much I don't like that game, it does fare better in every department.

That's no excuse, the game can be unpolished, but if it's bad it's not 'cause the development time was short.

[Bobnik]

35 minutes ago, Depression Kong said:

"Team A" is too busy puking out Mario & Sonic minigame collections to be making a bigger game under wraps.

Mario & Sonic PyeongChang 2018 Winter Olympic Games announcement when.

Unless they have a 4-year development cycle for the 2020 Olympic games game, then I'll just laugh.

[GuyWithThePie]

8 hours ago, Sky The Destroyer said:

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201711/11145786.html

According to this (and Google Translate, which actually is translating this pretty well!), Sonic Team started basic engine and technological development of Forces about 4 years ago (mainly Hedgehog Engine 2 I'm assuming), with Forces' going through what I'm assuming was a concept phase a year after that, but the actual full-scale production of Sonic Forces began around last year.

So instead of going the Unleashed route of 1.5 years of Hedgehog Engine development and 1.5 years of game development, they went through 3 years of Hedgehog Engine 2 development and decided to spend only 1 year of actual game development.

So tl;dr timeline from this:

2013 - Sonic Team begins Hedgehog Engine 2 development
2014-2016 - Sonic Forces concept development with Nakamura's small team
2016-2017 - Actual Sonic Forces game development

Well, that explains a lot...

5 hours ago, Tarnish said:

I feel they did that with Unleashed: "Check it out people, new engine, new gameplay, EPIC story, state of the art CGI!"

Nearly a decade later and they still haven't managed to surpass Unleashed in any of those aspects. Except for maybe gameplay in Generations, but that's about it.

[Ultimate Victory 64]

Now I feel like a jerk for trash talking this game and Sonic Team

[Shadowlax]

26 minutes ago, Ultimate Victory 64 said:

Now I feel like a jerk for trash talking this game and Sonic Team

why? The games still poor, and they or their overlords still decided to release a product of this quality out into the market, when other options like " Not releasing the game yet " exist

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

3 hours ago, Sonikko said:

What gives me hope is that prototype that was mentioned by Endri on Retro years ago.

Some people say it turned out to be the Avatar, but that's far too similar to modern Sonic to be "a totally different thing, not Lost World not the Boost".

Yeesh. Now that I think of it, it makes a lot of sense for him to be referencing the avatar. In that point of development, the avatar might have even still been "Boom" Sonic with a playstyle that is different than Modern or Classic. Eghhhh.... Oh it hurts just thinking it, but it seems more plausible at this stage than anything else.

They were experimenting with a fully 3D playstyle with Lost World and so maybe it is possible they were tinkering with it even further (I do remember Aaron Webber shortly after the release of Lost World commenting on the fact that Sonic Team believed the Lost World playstyle had a lot of potential). At this juncture, I'm leaning towards them spending that time farting around with the hedgehog engine and reacting to the Sonic Boom flop and making necessary changes. The avatar is the one thing that seemed to get the most development time of any element of this game, so I'd highly doubt it was a late add. It makes sense for it to have come up sometime in 2015.

I want this to be true (the prototype rumor) but I don't this idea has much to stand on as of now. I believe Endri but I also think its more likely that he was referencing the avatar/Boom Sonic style.

That of course does not mean that a fully 3D style won't happen in the future. As of now, there is no support for it.

[Sonikko]

7 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Yeesh. Now that I think of it, it makes a lot of sense for him to be referencing the avatar. In that point of development, the avatar might have even still been "Boom" Sonic with a playstyle that is different than Modern or Classic. Eghhhh.... Oh it hurts just thinking it, but it seems more plausible at this stage than anything else.

They were experimenting with a fully 3D playstyle with Lost World and so maybe it is possible they were tinkering with it even further (I do remember Aaron Webber shortly after the release of Lost World commenting on the fact that Sonic Team believed the Lost World playstyle had a lot of potential). At this juncture, I'm leaning towards them spending that time farting around with the hedgehog engine and reacting to the Sonic Boom flop and making necessary changes. The avatar is the one thing that seemed to get the most development time of any element of this game, so I'd highly doubt it was a late add. It makes sense for it to have come up sometime in 2015.

I want this to be true (the prototype rumor) but I don't this idea has much to stand on as of now. I believe Endri but I also think its more likely that he was referencing the avatar/Boom Sonic style.

That of course does not mean that a fully 3D style won't happen in the future. As of now, there is no support for it.

So the Boom rumor was confirmed?

[ShadowSJG]

So 4 years wasn't true?

[Razule]

8 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

So 4 years wasn't true?

Well.. it kinda was. The Hedgehog Engine 2 was made for this game after all. Unlike Oddyssey and BotW though it wasn't made that whole time. But uh.. technicalities

I guess making engines is important

[Clewis]

15 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

So 4 years wasn't true?

It's likely the project started off as something more Avatar-focused a few years ago, then when the western branches of Sega showed how much they disliked the idea, Sonic Team went back and redesigned the project so that it would be more like Generations, resulting in proper development for Forces only starting around sometime last year.

So Forces itself wasn't in development for four years, but Sonic Team likely did spend the last four years developing something, even if some of that something never came to fruition.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

So the Boom rumor was confirmed?

 Not so,  according to the report Hogfather gave a while back about the game SoJ originally pitched,  focusing more on the avatar character to begin with.