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Sonic Forces Development Speculation (Spoilers)

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9 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

 Not so,  according to the report Hogfather gave a while back about the game SoJ originally pitched,  focusing more on the avatar character to begin with. 

That was in 2015 though. Maybe there was another game from 2013 to 2015

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2 minutes ago, Razule said:

That was in 2015 though. Maybe there was another game from 2013 to 2015

They could've been experimenting with Boom Sonic at first and then turned that in the Avatar too, both things aren't mutually exclusive.

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5 minutes ago, Razule said:

That was in 2015 though. Maybe there was another game from 2013 to 2015

 

1 minute ago, Sonikko said:

They could've been experimenting with Boom Sonic at first and then turned that in the Avatar too, both things aren't mutually exclusive.

But then the question arises, considering how isolated they tend to act towards their international counterparts,  why SoJ would even be working with Boom Sonic which was SoA's baby?

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Just now, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

 

But then the question arises, considering how isolated they tend to act towards their international counterparts,  why SoJ would even be working with Boom Sonic which was SoA's baby?

Well.. Sonic is Sonic

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5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

why SoJ would even be working with Boom Sonic which was SoA's baby?

Probably as a way to help introduce the Boom branch to more people (or at least more of the eastern audience) before said branch partially collapsed on itself.

I mean classic Sonic's appearance in Forces is nothing more than a glorified commercial for Mania, after all.

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2 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Except for the explicit recognition of Classic Sonic as a totally different character.

Well yeah, but they're both Sonic.. in different ways. Neither is more Sonic than the other

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2 hours ago, Sonikko said:

So the Boom rumor was confirmed?

Not to my knowledge. Just something floating out there. I was leaning towards it based on things we've seen.

We haven't seen or heard anything about Endri's rumor though in several years. With the Boom tie-in, there was a least a little marketing push in 2015 to suggest it may have been a thing. But as other have said, it may not have actually been the case.

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I appreciate the effort they made on creating the engine since the game looks beautiful. 

But SEGA, I think almost no one would've complained if you delayed the game to work on it more. 

 

At least next time SEGA will no longer will have problems on making the engine.

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1 hour ago, DiamondX said:

I appreciate the effort they made on creating the engine since the game looks beautiful. 

But SEGA, I think almost no one would've complained if you delayed the game to work on it more. 

 

At least next time SEGA will no longer will have problems on making the engine.

Mmhm...That is one of the reasons why I view this a bit higher than Lost World. I at least can look at this game as say "this actually fits Sonic entirely" 

I wish they actually showed off more of what the Engine can pull off like Unleashed did. Especially when it came to those highly informative videos on the engine.

 

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3 hours ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

 Not so,  according to the report Hogfather gave a while back about the game SoJ originally pitched,  focusing more on the avatar character to begin with. 

Yes, but probably after the Boom character version of Sonic was scrapped for the game.

I believe Hogfather's reported findings in that I simply reckon SOJ probably wanted to extend their ideas out much further for Avatar to make sure it differentiated enough from its Boom'd beginnings before they were apparently reeled back in again - therefore avatar simply feels closer to what was originally planned instead of where they wanted to take it after Boom Sonic was cut.

I mean, to be honest it could very well be that Boom Sonic was never going to be in the game whatsoever. But personally I would be pretty surprised if that was the case considering.

For one thing you have the poster child of all three Sonic's together displayed on the 25th Anniversary website well over a year ago - sure, they all had separate games and upcoming releases at the time, but it always set my mind wondering for a 25th anniversary sequel to Generations that may include all 3 Sonic's. It certainly seemed to make sense. 

Then you have a double boost function for a character that really shouldn't serve to be as quick as Sonic - I know most characters at this stage in the Sonic realm are speedy... but why is a creational avatar as quick as the fastest thing alive with the potential to boost him into faster territory? You then have the general familiar model design for Avatar, then grapple hook in replacement for the ener-beam thingy as well as inspired unlockable clothes in the form of bandages and neck scarfs.

The fact that Classic Sonic is thrown into the Forces mix and feels misplaced lends to him being left in by original design which is unfortunate, so this feels like another afterthought from Boom Sonic's removal to just leave him in because we've lost one hallmark already.

...and then there is that ending with the three central characters defeating the final boss of Forces. C'mon. 

Buuuuut, that's just my take. There's no real truth in it whatsoever until someone over at SEGA spills any tasty development beans.  

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I've been mostly on and off because I'm in a state where it hurts thinking about my favorite franchise of all time. That's never a good feeling to have and I know I'll just drown in negativity if I dig too deep into Forces talk unless it's something like this that provides possible answers for what we just experienced. I don't blame the Sonic franchise itself for any of this. I don't even blame the ideas that individual people and developers on the lower end are putting out there.

It's Sonic Team in general that just fills me with this overwhelming sense of disgust. They're a mess. They're confused. They don't know what they're doing. You can tell by the spectacle that's in Forces that there's something there that wants to burst free and be something interesting and cool but the reality of the development and overwhelming laziness of the execution just has it not seeing it's full advantages coming through.

If there was barely any stake in what came out of Iizuka's mouth before it's at an even 0% for me now. I don't trust or believe a single thing that man has to say at this point. I hardly did before but it's gotten to the point where if he said the sun was out, I'd look outside to fucking double check.

It's a game that I've admitted to liking more than the last few we've gotten yet it's one that's making me feel the most sad and angry since probably way back in 2006. There wasn't much to be disappointed about from the other titles after Unleashed since I didn't really expect much. What was advertised was what I got. Yet, I allowed the corporate monster to allow me to anticipate something from them this time. It was basically just the story but that was enough considering that the world and the characters are my thing. Now it's just dust in the wind. Things really take a toll when the thing you're most passionate about and excited for in a game ends up just being a slightly altered version of what came before. 

It's like some sort of weird Twilight Zone Greek Tragedy where the twist is that the development team you farmed your series out to make a spin-off game while you work on the real thing was actually the team in charge the whole time. Just a bunch of complacency, decisions made of out fear, embarrassingly transparent marketing tactics, and random ideas thrown out there without much care.

Yet I have no choice but to rely on them for the future of this series. 

What's a guy to do when your favorite thing is under the influence of something that you've grown to really fucking hate? If I wasn't jealous of other gaming icons before I sure as shit am now. 

At least they've given me a comic to look forward to. 

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What did Sega expect this game to be with just one year of programming development? 

This brings me back to that time when they announced Project Sonic 2017 was in development before the 25th anniversary event. Was hoping they meant it was currently a thing happening in Sega - not that they started the game development then lol.

Sonic Mania took a year to make as well. Go figure.

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4 hours ago, Mark1 said:

What did Sega expect this game to be with just one year of programming development? 

This brings me back to that time when they announced Project Sonic 2017 was in development before the 25th anniversary event. Was hoping they meant it was currently a thing happening in Sega - not that they started the game development then lol.

Sonic Mania took a year to make as well. Go figure.

Mania was a 2D title. 

1 year making a fully fledged 3D title and 1 with 2D are highly different from each other. Though it's still bullshit to hear Forces was only 1 year.

9 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's Sonic Team in general that just fills me with this overwhelming sense of disgust. They're a mess. They're confused. They don't know what they're doing. You can tell by the spectacle that's in Forces that there's something there that wants to burst free and be something interesting and cool but the reality of the development and overwhelming laziness of the execution just has it not seeing it's full advantages coming through.

Chill, guy. They didn't hurt you:P

For one; The team doesn't have a proper director or staff. I don't know what is even going on at Sonic Team but I can't understand why Sega all this time can't find another(better)director for Sonic Team. It's no wonder why they're so confused....

I just feel sad...To me, Sega's main problems are just having Sonic Team make Sonic games. Yuji Naka was burnt out for that very reason..

49 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Imagine being forced to make games for the same franchise without ever branching out to the others. I think Sonic Team are just burnt out on making Sonic games, but Sega won't let them do anything else.

Depends on who's the current staff. The Staff of Sonic 06 after the game released became tired, cynical and no longer wanting to do these games. 

After many were fired, a new team was brought on for Sonic who hadn't done Sonic games before. Although in 2009 they were mysteriously changed...again for some reason. From what I can see, I don't think there has been the same consistent staff in years. 

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11 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Mania was a 2D title. 

1 year making a fully fledged 3D title and 1 with 2D are highly different from each other. Though it's still bullshit to hear Forces was only 1 year.

Eh makes no difference with the number of level designers they hired for both projects. 

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As much as I don't want to sound like I'm doing the usual "oh next time will be better" routine, there is one thing that's making me hold off on thinking just how much of a shake up Sonic Team needs, and it's the news from last year about how SOA was being made the 'hub" for Sonic moving forward (not having been done since SA2).

https://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/20857-confirmed-iizuka-is-at-sega-of-america-rumour-overseeing-multiple-sonic-gamessoa-to-be-sonic-hub/

This isn't the classic "last chance for Sonic" scenario but right now it probably IS the biggest opportunity for concerns from fans and SOA to finally get through to the development team. Forces as we know it now was likely too far along for this move to mean anything but, unless there is already another game they were making alongside Forces, the next game is prime for an overhaul if they take the opportunity.

At the very least, if there isn't going to be any staff changes and they're absolutely sticking with the boost formula, they need to get EVERYBODY in a room and establish what the benchmark for level design is. I appreciate there being only a few designers with no Sonic experience for Forces but there's really no excuse for such inconsistency between games.

Imagine a Pixar movie with only average character movement and it turned out "oh they're newly qualified, they'll be ready next time". As a character animation student I know full well that when it's my turn to dance with the big guys it's gonna be me that needs to reach their level, not the company needing to crouch down for me.

When we're sat here and able to identify two different categories of design philosophy (Unleashed/Gens and Colours/Lost World) something is seriously wrong. It's all very well for all members of one team to be able to work together, but when multiple teams are working on the same thing they need to be able to link together as well.

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Just now, Mark1 said:

Eh makes no difference with the number of level designers they hired for both projects. 

You're not factoring the first 3 years of the HHE2 development(a fairly complex engine), which is apart of the game.

The level designers weren't nearly as many as before in Forces. 3 gameplay styles and only 3 level designers? That's too little for a giant project such as this.

Even with better direction, a year for Forces still wouldn't have saved it..It needed more time..

 

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42 minutes ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

You're not factoring the first 3 years of the HHE2 development(a fairly complex engine), which is apart of the game.

I think it was established several times here that HE2 was worked on for only 1 year, no? Then the next 2 years a small team worked on the game and the last year was in full production.

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8 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

I think it was established several times here that HE2 was worked on for only 1 year, no? Then the next 2 years a small team worked on the game and the last year was in full production.

Actually, HHE2 was worked on for 2 years, a small team worked on it for one year and full scale team for the final year(reading from the source of the twitter).

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClydeMandelin/status/930294334007545856?s=17

"I don't know the first thing about Sonic or this new game but the article says the project began 4 years ago, focused mostly on tech + R&D at first, then a small team took the reins a year later, and then the heavy-duty work got underway last year"

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2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Imagine being forced to make games for the same franchise without ever branching out to the others. I think Sonic Team are just burnt out on making Sonic games, but Sega won't let them do anything else.

I think they just aren't very good. It's still a job they're getting paid to do. 

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