A “Mania” for the Adventure Series?

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

But.. Shadow and Chaos tho

Maybe the Phantom Ruby had spent time in the Dreamcast universe? 

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Maybe the Phantom Ruby had spent time in the Dreamcast universe? 

But.. Generations

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Unleashed had a great template for rebooting the series when it came to story. Could have reintroduced the characters properly with context unlike post-unleashed. Amy and Tails were pretty much the only ones needed to be in the game to show Sonic's friends.  

People like more than those characters though, you can't say fuck those people, especially when sales of sonic games haven't exactly been on the up and up once you removed them. And that's the problem. 

"A new limited cast" 

" People like shadow more than your limited cast combined"

" well shit" 

Its a problem a lot of comic book companies have, and marvel having right now. 

3 hours ago, Razule said:

But.. Shadow and Chaos tho

Yeah shadow's weird

If shadow exists , sonic adventure 1 and 2 have to have happened. And due to the plot of sonic adventure one, a different versions of the classic games have to have happened. 

[superman43]

I believe that the Mania structure could actually work even in the "Dreamcast era"-alike. I mean, you can have stages with bosses or without them, regardless. Plus some new stages. Like... if Forces had Metropolis and "Eggman Empire Fortress", the latter with some exclusive name, not like shit and well done level design, they could have been thrown in the bunch.

Let´s just say that there are far more memorable stages in SA1, SA2, Heroes, Unleashed or even 06 and Shadow individually then in Colors, Lost World and Forces altogether.

What I actually would like:
1st -SA1 Emerald Coast

2nd - Heroes Ocean Palace 

3rd - should be Casino or City (favouring Casinopolis or Casino Park)

4rd - should be something new

5th - Jungle theme

6th - City or Casino (favouring City Escape or Speed Highway or whatever)

7th, 8th - it´s up to everyone

9th - Hang Castle/Mystic Mansion with samples of Lost World, Pyramid Cave

10th - Red Mountain possibly

11th - Final Egg

12th - some proper new Eggman base

+ final Super Sonic boss

 

Basically, tried to stick to Mania structure itself.

[knuckles20]

Go for it. Just keep the games in 3D.

[Wraith]

I like the idea of an Adventure followup but not an Adventure Mania. Especially if it's going to represent a bunch of non Adventure games like Heroes and Secret Rings as well. Sonic Mania didn't go out of it's way to cover Knuckles Chaotix or Sonic 3D Blast. Making another timeline for the adventure games is also flat out a terrible idea. 

I'd be more into the idea if it was visiting Sonic Adventure 1/2 locations but even then I'd rather just have a new game.

 

I'd like a spiritual successor to Sonic Adventure 1 though. A remake like @FFWF said would be cool but I'd like the leash to be a bit looser so that they can put in whatever they want.
 

[simtek34]

I know lots of people will agree with me when I say this, but FIRST, we should get a remake of Sonic Adventure, THEN think about a new game. It would have expansive and explorative levels, a la Sonic Adventure. It would also have many characters, who all play similarly  to Sonic, but b have differences to set them apart, like the Classics, but different. All the characters have a good sense of speed and don't drag down the pace of the game. For Gameplay styles, I would go with what I have listed below. Keep in mind this is for how they play, not what they do, like I'm not saying for Knuckles to Treasure Hunt when I say SA1. 

Sonic: SA1 with Auto LS Dash (No Charge)

Tails: SA1

Knuckles: SA1

Amy: SA2 Multiplayer

Shadow: Either StH 2006 or Boost

Rouge: SA2

Metal: SADX (Unlockable Sonic Skin)

Blaze: StH 2006

 

[Multikaris]

On 10/30/2017 at 5:12 PM, Josh said:

I like the idea of an Adventure followup but not an Adventure Mania. Especially if it's going to represent a bunch of non Adventure games like Heroes and Secret Rings as well. Sonic Mania didn't go out of it's way to cover Knuckles Chaotix or Sonic 3D Blast. Making another timeline for the adventure games is also flat out a terrible idea. 

I'd be more into the idea if it was visiting Sonic Adventure 1/2 locations but even then I'd rather just have a new game.

 

I'd like a spiritual successor to Sonic Adventure 1 though. A remake like @FFWF said would be cool but I'd like the leash to be a bit looser so that they can put in whatever they want.
 

Why is making another timeline split so awful? Because if we do so, we can ignore Two Worlds, “Baldy McNosehair!”, and any attempt to try and squeeze in the Dreamcast era into the modern canon beyond broad strokes, and make the canon of this branch consistent while at the same time doing the same for modern by removing a bunch of stuff from each. Hence Unleashed doesn’t have to be reconciled with Adventure 2 any longer, and we can have Tails being a wuss in one continuity and badass in another, and keep Classic running alongside these. Everyone’s happy, maybe even Boom fans are. Maybe using this split certain characters can be kept within Dreamcast games rather than potentially hang around in Modern stuff doing nothing of worth. For example, Blaze hasn’t even just hung around since Generations. Different sorts of marketing could also work between Dreamcast and Modern, much like with Classic. 

 

Also, I believe that maybe if we just restrict ourselves to Adventure-06 for levels, snippets of the other games I wanted to see could work, or even have them as multiplayer levels or DLC of some kind. After all, Mania itself didn’t have devoted levels to games outside of 1-&Knuckles or its own homegrown levels. But maybe that’ll be where the game diverges from Mania; representation beyond the core levels: and likely writing the levels around the plot as well. Like if we visit Angel Island, that’s where we get Pumpkin Hill, Sky Canyon, Ice Cap, etc. Prison Island appears? Then time for Iron Jungle and Prison Lane. Apply Adventure philosophies throughout. 

 

And I think if Hubs show up, they should be like the interface between levels in SA2. Just enough room to access the Chao Garden and whatnot. Upgrades should be found within levels. 

[Almar]

Do we really want to encourage Sonic Team's mismanagement?

[RidersDX]

I think I would rather have them take Sonic's gameplay from the Adventure games and try to improve on that. The idea of multiple gameplay styles is outdated to me, unless the styles were similar with just a few differences in move sets like Mania. I would rather whichever team were to develop it to focus on refining on a style of gameplay that already has its flaws. If they would do that though, I would be all for a Sonic Adventure Mania. I think it would be great to revisit that kind of gameplay in this day and age!

[Multikaris]

2 hours ago, Almar said:

Do we really want to encourage Sonic Team's mismanagement?

This will presumably use a different team. 

[Marco9966]

On 10/30/2017 at 3:48 AM, Diogenes said:

There's a few reasons why a "Sonic Adventure Mania" probably wouldn't be a great idea, but I think the biggest one is that there isn't a rock-solid and universally agreed upon gameplay style to use for it. SA didn't control like Heroes which didn't control like '06 which didn't control like SatSR, and none of them were as well designed and polished as the classic gameplay was by 3&K. So there's some big questions to face as to what the game should actually play like and how to raise it above those flawed games and up to modern standards. They'd need to essentially "solve" 3D Sonic and hope it could thread the needle of all the different expectations built up by all those disparate games.

Let me tell you that Sonic 1 didn't control like Sonic Game Gear didn't control like Sonic Advance didn't control like Sonic Rush

Guys, SA1, 2 and Heroes are a lot closer to Classic world than you think!

I just read Sonic Mega Drive comic, and watched some cutscenes from SA2, I loved the similarities

-The main 4 together: Sonic Amy Knuckles Tails.

-Knuckles being the tough guardian but also has funny scenes.

-Sonic's cocky but NOT obnoxious like post-colors games.

Don't be blinded by your classic bias! Try to see the ADVENTURE (not modern) games as a proper continuation of the classic series!

I think where the franchise lost it was Sonic 2006, when it was TOO realistic. (then it was an up and down road, Unleashed and Colors were great, while Generations and Lost World and Forces sucked)

[Marco9966]

11 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Why is making another timeline split so awful? Because if we do so, we can ignore Two Worlds, “Baldy McNosehair!”, and any attempt to try and squeeze in the Dreamcast era into the modern canon pose of broad strokes, and make the canon of this branch consistent while at the same time doing the same for modern by removing a bunch of stuff from each. Hence Unleashed doesn’t have to be reconciled with Adventure 2 any longer, and we can have Tails being a wuss in one continuity and badass in another, and keep Classic running alongside these. Everyone’s happy, maybe even Boom fans are. Maybe using this split certain characters can be kept within Dreamcast games rather than potentially hang around in Modern stuff doing nothing of worth. For example, Blaze hasn’t even just hung around since Generations. Different sorts of marketing could also work between Dreamcast and Modern, much like with Classic.

I agree, a third timeline which happens only after SA1 till Sonic Rivals 2 is a good idea. Spare us the kiddy jokes and the two-worlds and the forced humor and the coward Tails and the stupid Knuckles and the Wisps replacing Chao and the Classic Sonic having more importance than Silver or Blaze or Cream.

Get Shiro Maekawa or Ian Flynn on board to write the story.

[Eurisko]

I’d love to see something like this. A refined Adventure era engine would great. 

Alas , I doubt this will ever surface but never say never. (Whoops , I said it twice  )

[BaronGrackle]

12 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

we can ignore Two Worlds

That reminds me: Ice Cap.

Who lives in those houses? Who is holding that balloon festival? If you thought it was humans, you might've believed in the Two Worlds/Two Universes theory all along.

Instead, if a Sonic Adventure Mania showed us more, I'd hope to see a village of little penguins and walruses.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Here is why S-A-M would be hard to make

1) Big part of Adventure appeal are stories. Mania by concept is mostly nostalgia wank..
2) Other important aspect are many playable characters. Mania added drop dash and new experiments with Mania Plus, but didn't reinvent the wheels. S-A-M has Sonic, Tails, maaaybe Knuckles... and every other gameplay kinda sucks. So you need to come up with new stuff, which sorta misses the Mania point.
3) Graphically speaking, it will be even more like Generations clone than Mania was.

Honestly, I would much prefer new game that recaptures what was good about Advenure games, rather than wallow in the past.

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Here is why S-A-M would be hard to make

1) Big part of Adventure appeal are stories. Mania by concept is mostly nostalgia wank..
2) Other important aspect are many playable characters. Mania added drop dash and new experiments with Mania Plus, but didn't reinvent the wheels. S-A-M has Sonic, Tails, maaybe Knuckles... and every other gameplay. So you need to come up with new stuff, which sorta misses the Mania point.
3) Graphically speaking, it will be even more like Generations clone than Mania was.

Honestly, I would much prefer new game that recaptures what was good about Advenure games, rather than wallow in the past.

1. We could try and find a balance between story and nostalgia wank. Like how Ian Flynn did. 

2. Just take the gameplays from past Adventure games and maybe fix them a little. And even the characters with less-pleasing gameplay styles could just be NPCs this time around. And Mania indeed followed in CD and S3K’s footsteps by expanding upon 2 and largely ignoring what the other two added (except adding those abilities as a bonus option), so we could try splitting the myriad abilities of Sonic through the era between characters and have most be optional toggles. In contrast to Mania, we could give stuff like the Magic Gloves and Purple Gem more of an actual use. Like some optional puzzles to use the Magic Gloves. Or have those be used to help sonic go down seemingly unusable paths in a replay mode. 

3. Generations’s more realistic style has been forsaken by the modern era for a while. Unless we try to go with something even more an evolution of Dreamcast philosophies...  Maybe take Nibroc’s Adventure-styled models as a reference point?

 

Imagine a cel-shaded version of this, perhaps. With some slightly less-plastic textures.

[Marco9966]

1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

3. Generations’s more realistic style has been forsaken by the modern era for a while. Unless we try to go with something even more an evolution of Dreamcast philosophies...  Maybe take Nibroc’s Adventure-styled models as a reference point??

Yeah, cartoony and less realistic graphics are very possible and acceptable to do in 2018 unlike what some think.

No need for a realistic rendering, just look at the success of Fortnite!

[Multikaris]

On 10/30/2017 at 1:25 PM, Razule said:

But.. Generations

Which is more or less discarded by Forces due to it being a TIME Eater. And it could have just affected a third world andnot allowed any residents to arrive to help. And again, Broad Strokes (perhaps making the Adventure-era games not in there completely non-canon to Modern) can apply.

[Skull Leader]

On October 30, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

Unleashed had a great template for rebooting the series when it came to story. Could have reintroduced the characters properly with context unlike post-unleashed. Amy and Tails were pretty much the only ones needed to be in the game to show Sonic's friends.  

Man...Imagine if they went with that and finally had a nice little continuation. And I love how Gaia was never defeated but sealed away with chip. 

I await for Sonic Unleashed 2.

Yep. Unleashed certainly felt like a very fresh and welcomed change when compared to the previous games. I always loved the atmosphere of that game as well as the lovely visual that were aided by the Hedgehog Engine, which was very relaxing and felt like an actual adventure instead of Sonic simply going on some mission (sure, he had to fix the planet and himself, but you didn't feel any urgency to).

The only thing I felt was a missed oportunity was the way Tails and Amy didn't had much use... I think it would had been the right moment to establish them not only as Sonic's closest and most important friends, but also show what is it that they can do now that characters like Knuckles or Shadow were not around, as well as them befriending Chip as I think that through Chip's character, the audience would see the more endearing aspects of Sonic, Tails and Amy and how each would offer a unique dynamic, which IMO is something I would always prefer over a narrative that sucks up to Sonic and places him as the most amazing person any character can be lucky to be friends with.

Anyway, onto the topic.

I don't think an "Adventure Mania" game would come to happen simply because of how the adventure style games are different from each other, especially when it comes to gameplay.

I think it that something with more realistic (and practical) chances would be an equivalent of Sonic Mania that is set on the modern era, and uses the modern cast. Currently the closest thing would be the Sonic Advance Revamped fangame, since it expands the original cast of playable characters to include some of which were never featured in a 2-D Genesis styled game like Shadow. 

Perhaps the idea of turning levels from the 3-D polygonal games into a 2-D one that uses sprites can be an interesting concept, kind of like the inverse of what Sonic Generations did by taking stages from the 16-bit 2-D games and recreating them in full 3-D renders.

[DabigRG]

I for one would really love something like that. It could even be said that Modern Sonic really needs it right now.

Honestly, part of me kinda wishes Forces had been postponed/replaced for something like this.

 

With that said, I think/know some might be a little too literal-minded and/or specific about this. This type of thing should be more about regaining and refining that Adventure styled gameplay and some of it's themes than bringing back too many iconic locations for easy fanservice points. Just do a fun game with a neat story reminiscent, but not actively drawing from the Adventure era games, aka Sonic Mania for Modern Sonic.

.

17 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Like if we visit Angel Island, that’s where we get Pumpkin Hill, Sky Canyon, Ice Cap, etc.

Pumpkin Hill and Sky Canyon weren't on Angel Island though. In fact, I'm pretty sure Angel Island isn't in SA2 period.

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

Yep. Unleashed certainly felt like a very fresh and welcomed change when compared to the previous games. I always loved the atmosphere of that game as well as the lovely visual that were aided by the Hedgehog Engine, which was very relaxing and felt like an actual adventure instead of Sonic simply going on some mission (sure, he had to fix the planet and himself, but you didn't feel any urgency to).

The only thing I felt was a missed oportunity was the way Tails and Amy didn't had much use... I think it would had been the right moment to establish them not only as Sonic's closest and most important friends, but also show what is it that they can do now that characters like Knuckles or Shadow were not around, as well as them befriending Chip as I think that through Chip's character, the audience would see the more endearing aspects of Sonic, Tails and Amy and how each would offer a unique dynamic, which IMO is something I would always prefer over a narrative that sucks up to Sonic and places him as the most amazing person any character can be lucky to be friends with.

Anyway, onto the topic.

I don't think an "Adventure Mania" game would come to happen simply because of how the adventure style games are different from each other, especially when it comes to gameplay.

I think it that something with more realistic (and practical) chances would be an equivalent of Sonic Mania that is set on the modern era, and uses the modern cast. Currently the closest thing would be the Sonic Advance Revamped fangame, since it expands the original cast of playable characters to include some of which were never featured in a 2-D Genesis styled game like Shadow. 

Perhaps the idea of turning levels from the 3-D polygonal games into a 2-D one that uses sprites can be an interesting concept, kind of like the inverse of what Sonic Generations did by taking stages from the 16-bit 2-D games and recreating them in full 3-D renders.

That would be a cute little side-project for M3 or Sanzaru to handle. Maybe have it tie into this ala how Mania does into Forces. “Sonic Generations Reversed” would be a nice idea to try and get the modern era worked out. I can only imagine how the characters would work, and how a pixelated Windmill Isle, Tropical Resort,etc. would look. Also, we’d try and pick the best elements of each Adventure style and weld it together as one, using primarily SA1 as the glue.

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I for one would really love something like that. It could even be said that Modern Sonic really needs it right now.

Honestly, part of me kinda wishes Forces had been postponed/replaced for something like this.

 

With that said, I think/know some might be a little too literal-minded and/or specific about this. This type of thing should be more about regaining and refining that Adventure styled gameplay and some of it's themes than bringing back too many iconic locations for easy fanservice points. Just do a fun game with a neat story reminiscent, but not actively drawing from the Adventure era games, aka Sonic Mania for Modern Sonic.

We kinda need to actively draw from them to keep continuity around and re-assure people that canon still exists. 

44 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Pumpkin Hill and Sky Canyon weren't on Angel Island though. In fact, I'm pretty sure Angel Island isn't in SA2 period.

The map of Advance 2 makes it clear Sky Canyon was on Angel Island. And the Master Emerald’s role in SA2 is another indicator, as are the similarities to Red Mountain. 

[DabigRG]

18 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

We kinda need to actively draw from them to keep continuity around and re-assure people that canon still exists. 

 

Fair enough.

19 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

 

The map of Advance 2 makes it clear Sky Canyon was on Angel Island. And the Master Emerald’s role in SA2 is another indicator, as are the similarities to Red Mountain. 

Was it? Cause I'm pretty sure the desert area where Knuckles shattered the M E and where Eggman's Pyramid Base were was not Angel Island.

[Tailikku]

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Imagine a cel-shaded version of this, perhaps. With some slightly less-plastic textures.

You mean something like this?

[Multikaris]

6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Fair enough.

Was it? Cause I'm pretty sure the desert area where Knuckles shattered the M E and where Eggman's Pyramid Base were was not Angel Island.

Echidna statues and hieroglyphics everywhere say otherwise.