Aren't spin dashes/attacks supposed to be for those who can curl into a ball?

[Mountaindewandsprite]

Sonic and Shadow, being hedgehogs, can do it, but it seems that almost every character can do it. I saw one for Tails (whose spin is really odd) and Knuckles. Hell, even Vector, Espio, and Blaze can do it. If there was an armadillo or a pangolin character, I would understand, but a crocodile, a chameleon, a fox, an echidna, and a cat? I think there was one for Cream the rabbit as well. Spin dashes and spin attacks went from a "species that naturally curls into a ball" thing to an "every Sonic character can do it"  thing. Aren't Sonic characters supposed to have enhanced physical abilities of their species? Why do a spin for everybody?

[Polkadi~☆]

Less frustrating and more consistent playstyles between each character.

Imagine spinning into bots as Sonic, and then switching to Tails, who can't. You wouldn't think about the character, you'd think about the gameplay, and get confused as to why it didn't work.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

2 minutes ago, Polkadi said:

Less frustrating and more consistent playstyles between each character.

Imagine spinning into bots as Sonic, and then switching to Tails, who can't. You wouldn't think about the character, you'd think about the gameplay, and get confused as to why it didn't work.

Fair point.

[Shadowlax]

My spindash is an ability for anyone who is born in sonic land? Like everyone on that planet has a predisposition to go fast

Then again, there are characters who can't actually go fast. 

So maybe no one at sega really cares. Because i'll be damned if I haven't sega sonic or shadow do a spin dash in a hot minute

[Diogenes]

It is (or rather was, and should be) a fundamental aspect of Sonic gameplay. It's true that the origins of the move were originally interconnected with Sonic's species, but rolling/spinning is so fundamental to how the games play(ed) that they couldn't just stop doing it with new characters. If you're a Mario, you jump good, even if you're a princess in a fancy dress or a stubby-legged mushroom boy. If you're a Sonic, you curl up into a spiky ball regardless of your flexibility or inherent spikiness. Obviously they could've tried limiting the series' cast to animals that could plausibly curl up and roll around, but that's not nearly as fun or interesting as having the entire animal kingdom to choose from, and if you're already buying into superfast hedgehogs and propeller-assed foxes having everyone curl up into a ball and roll around isn't much further a step.

Also cats can totally roll into balls anyway, so

[Razule]

18 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Aren't Sonic characters supposed to have enhanced physical abilities of their species?

Considering some of the examples you use are from the series' literal beginnings, no, it's never really been like that for characters besides Sonic. And even then.. hedgehogs can't run super fast and aren't very remarkable in that department.

[StaticMania]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Also cats can totally roll into balls anyway, so

Totally, but it's weird because that's not even how Blaze the cat spins anyway.

[Sega DogTagz]

1 hour ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

 Espio, and Blaze can do it.

 Axel Spin =/= Spindash

 

Seriously though, when you look back at the canon establishment of the spindash, it was Tails who first invented the move - so its been established right from the start that you don't need to be some sort of animal with a disposition to rolling to get the ball moving on that front so to speak. Clearly, they have always intended for any member of the cast to have access to the move that defined what the early games where for the most part. Its not surprising that later entries into the franchise would copy that formula. If a Fox can do it, I have no problem with a Croc or a Rabbit doing it too.

I take less offense to the action and more offense to the results tho. A Hedgehog spinning is theoretically a death ball made up of spikes. Cream and Tails should just bounce off things like a fluffy pillow lol.

[Multikaris]

31 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 Axel Spin =/= Spindash

 

Seriously though, when you look back at the canon establishment of the spindash, it was Tails who first invented the move - so its been established right from the start that you don't need to be some sort of animal with a disposition to rolling to get the ball moving on that front so to speak. Clearly, they have always intended for any member of the cast to have access to the move that defined what the early games where for the most part. Its not surprising that later entries into the franchise would copy that formula. If a Fox can do it, I have no problem with a Croc or a Rabbit doing it too.

I take less offense to the action and more offense to the results tho. A Hedgehog spinning is theoretically a death ball made up of spikes. Cream and Tails should just bounce off things like a fluffy pillow lol.

That would be a nice idea. Somebody like Tails or Vector would just push enemies away when rolling into them with insufficient torque. Vector’s muscle mass and hard archosaur scales might do better damage than Tails’s therapsidian fur.

[Razule]

54 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Seriously though, when you look back at the canon establishment of the spindash, it was Tails who first invented the move

Well that was only in the American manual..

[Darth InVaders]

Most animals can curl into a ball. Echidnas are similar to hedgehogs (which are both similar to porcupines) and curl into balls for protection using their quills/spines. Foxes and cats do it to stay warm.

But in my opinion, the Spin Attack animation should be limited to certain characters - Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, and a few others. Other characters get a move that performs the same function but is animated slightly differently - for example, Classic Espio's and Blaze's axel version, or a forward flip kick version, Vector could spin like real crocodiles spin on their sides.

And the Spin Dash should just go to the supersonic characters who already have Spin Attack - which is really just Sonic and Shadow. Again other characters like Blaze could have similar moves but are animated differently and are slightly slower.

[Your Vest Friend]

3 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 Axel Spin =/= Spindash

Espio had an explicit spindash in Sonic Rivals 2. Everyone did in that game. I think the same applies to Runners. 

[Salamander]

This is why I can't take seriously the argument that Amy shouldn't have a spindash or spin attack just because she didn't in Advance.  It makes more sense for her to have it than for most other characters.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

1 hour ago, FFWF said:

This is why I can't take seriously the argument that Amy shouldn't have a spindash or spin attack just because she didn't in Advance.  It makes more sense for her to have it than for most other characters.

Well she DID in Advance 2 and 3 and could roll around and Homing Attack in Heroes, so~...

[DoubleXXCross]

9 hours ago, Razule said:

Considering some of the examples you use are from the series' literal beginnings, no, it's never really been like that for characters besides Sonic. And even then.. hedgehogs can't run super fast and aren't very remarkable in that department.

Excuse you! Look at this little one runnin' on extendo-legs.

 

[SpongicX]

14 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Sonic and Shadow, being hedgehogs, can do it, but it seems that almost every character can do it. I saw one for Tails (whose spin is really odd) and Knuckles. Hell, even Vector, Espio, and Blaze can do it. If there was an armadillo or a pangolin character, I would understand, but a crocodile, a chameleon, a fox, an echidna, and a cat? I think there was one for Cream the rabbit as well. Spin dashes and spin attacks went from a "species that naturally curls into a ball" thing to an "every Sonic character can do it"  thing. Aren't Sonic characters supposed to have enhanced physical abilities of their species? Why do a spin for everybody?

I agree, while the spin dash is fun, it doesn’t make much sense for so many characters to have the ability in certain games. The only characters who should do it are Sonic, Shadow, Amy, and Silver, since they are hedgehogs.

I was fine with how Adventure handled Tails and Knuckles, though. Instead of a spin dash, they were given a small roll attack for going down hills faster. It wasn’t a spin dash though. I liked how Tails and Knuckles were given there own attacks, like the tail whip for Tails, and punching for Knuckles. I wish we could see that in a modern Sonic game, except give each character the same level types as Sonic. 

[Dr. Egguman]

I always asked myself the same, then realized this is a standardized ability for everyone

[Detective Kaito]

Echidna's actually can curl into a ball.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna#Threats

[Mountaindewandsprite]

5 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

Echidna's actually can curl into a ball.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna#Threats

That I was unaware of.

[Salamander]

Tails is really the main odd one out.  I think I remember a western manual or something like that which had a story indicating that Tails's spin attack was accomplished specifically in imitation of Sonic's, though, so it's arguably a character-specific ability rather than something normal for Sonic-world foxes.  (How his tails remain stationary when the rest of his body is spinning around is better not thought about, much like the question of how they can possibly rotate around each other.  It's all cartoon physics, which is why anyone can spin attack, really.)

[Razule]

27 minutes ago, FFWF said:

I think I remember a western manual or something like that which had a story indicating that Tails's spin attack was accomplished specifically in imitation of Sonic's, though, so it's arguably a character-specific ability

Murica, doesn't count

[Salamander]

I agree, or else I wouldn't have specified the origin of the material.  Doesn't mean it's not an idea worth adopting.

[Your Vest Friend]

With it being undermined by so many characters at this point, I don't think ST would see it as worth adopting.

[Darth InVaders]

On 10/31/2017 at 12:26 AM, Sega DogTagz said:

 ...Seriously though, when you look back at the canon establishment of the spindash, it was Tails who first invented the move...

 

On 10/31/2017 at 1:20 AM, Razule said:

Well that was only in the American manual..

I believe that was a typo in the American / English manual... to quote it:

"All the animals call Miles by his nickname, "Tails", because of his two special tails. And one day they saw an astonishing feat...

They were all together in the forest, watching Sonic perform. Sonic would run, spin and jump in his Super Spin Attack. Then "Tails" would whirl like a turbo engine and blast off in his Super Dash Attack. What a showoff!

Suddenly, "Tails" just couldn't help himself. He took a running start, curled up his tails, and - whoosh - he was spinning like Sonic!"

This does not really make any sense, first Tails shows off the Spin Dash (here called the "Super Dash Attack"), then he "suddenly" couldn't help himself and started spinning like Sonic for what seems like the first time by the way it is written - afterward. And who is the manual calling out as a "showoff"? Is the manual calling Tails a showoff when Sonic was the one everyone was watching perform?

So if it is a typo, how did the writer mistakenly type out an entire name for a character into a sentence where a different character's name was supposed to appear? Well, what if this was written using Macros? Macros are a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task, for example in a word processor, typing certain letters will instruct the computer to replace those letters with a certain word or words - like typing the letters ts would instruct the comp to replace ts with "Tails" complete with quotes like in the manual. Preprogrammed macros that many may be familiar with include hitting the space button twice at the end of a sentence to insert a period, or the first letter in a sentence being automatically capital without using the shift. Macros in word processors can be created with as simple as three, two, or heck even one letter. Having a macro type out "Tails" is a lot easier than having to keep going back to the quote keys every time to type it manually. But a simple typo could lead to the wrong character's name being placed somewhere. 

Now lets see what happens if we replace "Tails" with Sonic...

"They were all together in the forest, watching Sonic perform. Sonic would run, spin and jump in his Super Spin Attack. Then Sonic would whirl like a turbo engine and blast off in his Super Dash Attack. What a showoff!

Suddenly, "Tails" just couldn't help himself. He took a running start, curled up his tails, and - whoosh - he was spinning like Sonic!"

Does it not make more sense to have Sonic there? Sonic does all this showing off of his Super Spin Attack and his Super Dash Attack that inspires Tails to spin like Sonic for the first time.

So Tails did not invent the Spin Dash in the English manual, it was a typo, this was Sonic's move all along.

[DabigRG]

More or less.

In context, Tails learned it by watching Sonic, Metal Sonic is programmed to copy Sonic but seldom uses it, Omega may have had it programmed into him to help counter Shadow(the few times he used it at least), and Cream may have also learned it from Sonic/Amy. Otherwise, it's more of an acceptable break to allow the Classic-styled gameplay to be relatively uniform. Hell, even Zavok is apparently capable of it nowadays.

For what it's worth, Blaze and sometimes Espio have a different move where they twirl into a tornado/top. Vector and occasionally Amy also used to have a more explicitly distinct variants of it as well. And interestingly, Archie vaguely implies that the already rotund cat Big may have learned to do it by accident.

Personally, I don't mind it too much, but I'd prefer if they tried to remember that the other characters do in fact have their own variation of it.

 

On 11/1/2017 at 6:31 AM, FFWF said:

.  (How his tails remain stationary when the rest of his body is spinning around is better not thought about, much like the question of how they can possibly rotate around each other.  It's all cartoon physics, which is why anyone can spin attack, really.)

Same applies to Cream's ears, which literally makes less sense.