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What does Japan see in Forces?

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From what I can gather, Japanese players seem a lot more interested in Forces than they ever were for Mania. Why is that? From their perspective, what do they see in the game? Do they not see the same problems we're seeing? Do they not care? What about Forces' levels and gameplay appeals more so than Manias? I'm really curious.

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8 minutes ago, PKGaming said:

From what I can gather, Japanese players seem a lot more interested in Forces than they ever were for Mania. Why is that? From their perspective, what do they see in the game? Do they not see the same problems we're seeing? Do they not care? What about Forces' levels and gameplay appeals more so than Manias? I'm really curious.

Forces has the benefit of a very trendy marketing campaign to complement its darker aesthetic and tone. It also has giant mechs prominently featured in its ads. Let's be honest, that's a factor. 

Players in Japan are also more often conditioned to overachieve as much as possible. This means they'll feel more compelled to smash every robot, collect every ring, and shave off every millisecond. Replay value is fueled by compulsion rather than pure fun, something that Japanese games have always leaned towards. I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic Team introduced a slapdash higher difficulty later down the road. 

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Forces is pretty much Japan's Sonic Mania. Is the revival of their favorite Sonic, 2000s Sonic. You may not know but Sonic Adventure 2 is a very popular game in Japan. And people thought '06 was okay. (Here comes the affection they have for the the three S hedgehogs) Forces is a mix of everything they like, serious yet cheesy story, the more shonen vibe, Classic Sonic Gens version (the cute version) , Shadow playable, Silver is back, new edgy character, character customization.... That's what they like! They don't care about physics, automation, and other stuff as much as the west does.

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Something else to consider is that due to the lack of interest in Sonic over the years, much of the Japanese gaming market missed out on Colors/Unleashed/Gens ect.

Many of the problems we like to harp on around here are a direct result of playing those games and not seeing the improvements over time that we would like. We have an established baseline to compare Forces too, and call it out on its shortcomings, whereas a gamer who skipped those specific titles would not bear the same burden or fatigue when it comes to narrow corridors or over-reliance on 2D. Those things will be less offensive to the grand scheme for someone that doesn't go in with the expectation of the formula evolving past that.

Even further delving into Forces, it just seems to be a game that the Japanese market is probably more geared toward. Between the customization heavy avatar, the darker story tone, playable Shadow... I think its a heck of a lot more appealing to a market that never really got behind Classic Sonic to begin with,  even back in his 2D heyday.

 

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Simple. Japan loves modern sonic mich much more than classic sonic of the early 90s. I can't find the clip but the voice actor of sticks on stage screaming when shadow first appears shows their love of modern elements . It is a neat thing to look into

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25 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Simple. Japan loves modern sonic mich much more than classic sonic of the early 90s. I can't find the clip but the voice actor of sticks on stage screaming when shadow first appears shows their love of modern elements . It is a neat thing to look into

http://dizzydennis.tumblr.com/post/165726467107/one-of-my-favorite-things-to-come-out-of-sonic

This is the clip you seek.

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1 hour ago, JosepHenry said:

Forces is pretty much Japan's Sonic Mania. Is the revival of their favorite Sonic, 2000s Sonic. You may not know but Sonic Adventure 2 is a very popular game in Japan. And people thought '06 was okay. (Here comes the affection they have for the the three S hedgehogs) Forces is a mix of everything they like, serious yet cheesy story, the more shonen vibe, Classic Sonic Gens version (the cute version) , Shadow playable, Silver is back, new edgy character, character customization.... That's what they like! They don't care about physics, automation, and other stuff as much as the west does.

So funny how the west has been obsessed with 3(4 if counting S&K)Sonic games and has been for years. 

Both are just the opposites. Japan moves forward too fast and America stays back like the glory days.

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Just now, Jar Jar Analysis 1138 said:

So funny how the west has been obsessed with 3(4 if counting S&K)Sonic games and has been for years. 

Both are just the opposites. Japan moves forward too fast and America stays back like the glory days.

I don't think that's accurate, Think you are assuming way too much

The west also likes adventure and modern sonic, they also like classic sonic. Japan doesn't seem to like classic sonic that much. 

That's it, you seem to be over analyzing a situation and grouping folks together that might not want to be

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10 minutes ago, Sean said:

Are there any sources (actual research) to back up any of the claims made in this topic, or is this all speculation based on preconceived notions on Japanese gamers' tastes? Honest question.

There's nothing to "research" when it's all right there on their review sites, art websites and social media.

Heck,. have you ever tried just asking a Japanese gamer or watching one? Any of the ones I know or have followed for year have always preferred Adventure/Modern Sonic with little to no interest in Classic outside of the Generations version who's an exception only because he's so darn cute.

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5 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

There's nothing to "research" when it's all right there on their review sites, art websites and social media.

Heck,. have you ever tried just asking a Japanese gamer or watching one? Any of the ones I know or have followed for year have always preferred Adventure/Modern Sonic with little to no interest in Classic outside of the Generations version who's an exception only because he's so darn cute.

I'm just asking for sources on these claims because I have a genuine curiosity as to how people have garnered information about Japan's personal tastes in Sonic. I don't know how to go about finding this on my own because I don't know the first place to start. But it seems like a lot of people are either already aware of where such views can be seen, or this topic is simply full of a lot of rhetoric. Basically, I'd like someone to actually show me some links to this stuff so I can read for myself.

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13 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

There's nothing to "research" when it's all right there on their review sites, art websites and social media.

Heck,. have you ever tried just asking a Japanese gamer or watching one? Any of the ones I know or have followed for year have always preferred Adventure/Modern Sonic with little to no interest in Classic outside of the Generations version who's an exception only because he's so darn cute.

"a Japanese gamer"

"watching one"

That all sounds incredibly anecdotal, and does not really do much to establish a trend. I'm not saying your premise is even necessarily wrong, but that's not really a reliable method of proving it.

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@Sean

http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/fanart/#1711

The only proof that I have right now is the Sonic Channel fanart section. This is also fanart I see people people on various sites doing, and right now they are drawing the Custom Hero, Infinite, Classic Sonic, Shadow.... Is not just one person btw.

But there is also the art gallery from BK.

Look at the number of Classic/Modern arts in USA and Europe, and compare it too the JP arts 

3:02 The Japanese fan arts

To me that pretty much confirms that the JP fan ARTISTS are more into 2000s Sonic. Maybe is not the case, I dunno, I can't make a poll with every single Japanese fan to know what's their favorite game of the series.

And.... I guess this counts too? Sonic Adventure 2 got in 29th place in a Famitsu poll in 2017, which is not bad.

https://www.dualshockers.com/persona-5-best-game-time-famitsu/amp/

 

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1 minute ago, Sean said:

I don't think fan art selection is an accurate indicator of an entire people's consensus. The fan art you see on Sonic Channel and Black Knight is entirely up to whoever chose to include them in the first place.

Again, that's all I have. There is nothing else I can give to you besides fanart and some polls.

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Sonic as a whole is less popular in Japan than it is abroad as well.

It's not altogether unheard of there, but it doesn't sell nearly as many units in Japan as it does in America or Europe. 

Using just the 3D games, since Japan supposedly loves them way more than the west, see the  series' sales records, courtesy of VG Chartz:

 

Sonic Adventure:

(m = millions of units sold)

North America: 1.26m  
+ Europe: 0.61m  
+ Japan: 0.46m  
+ Rest of the World: 0.08m  

 

There's no sales history for the Dreamcast version of SA2 outside of Japan, but let's look at SA2:B for Gamecube:

North America: 1.70m  
+ Europe: 0.59m  
+ Japan: 0.21m  
+ Rest of the World: 0.07m  


How about Sonic Heroes? On all three platforms, Japan's sales were eclipsed by North America and Europe.

(note: forum formatting resizes the images, so you may need right-click them and open them in a new tab to see the numbers clearly)

qi6kWSs.png

In Japan, Heroes didn't even sell a million units across all platforms.

 

 

How about Sonic 06?

IQekRf2.png

Nope.

 

Unleashed?

YsH9yY4.png

Not even close.

 

Colors?

NQtp0dS.png

Did not perform well.

 

Generations?

lrNORTI.png

Low sales again.

 

Lost World?

V5hTPoU.png

Barely a blip on the radar.

 

Sonic is not a popular series in Japan. Most Sonic games don't even sell a million units there; Indeed, most don't even sell half that number. So marketing Sonic to supposed Japanese tastes hasn't worked in the past and doesn't make much sense from a business perspective now. 

If Japan "loves" modern Sonic, then I'd like to see sales figures for games they hate. 

guarantee you, Japan's Forces sales won't exceed half a million - across all platforms. (Of course, I don't think it'll perform super well anywhere else either, but it'll do especially poorly in Japan.)

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5 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Sonic as a whole is less popular in Japan than it is abroad as well.

It's not altogether unheard of there, but it doesn't sell nearly as many units in Japan as it does in America or Europe. 

Using just the 3D games, since Japan supposedly loves them way more than the west, see the  series' sales records, courtesy of VG Chartz:

 

Sonic Adventure:

(m = millions of units sold)

North America: 1.26m  
+ Europe: 0.61m  
+ Japan: 0.46m  
+ Rest of the World: 0.08m  

 

There's no sales history for the Dreamcast version of SA2 outside of Japan, but let's look at SA2:B for Gamecube:

North America: 1.70m  
+ Europe: 0.59m  
+ Japan: 0.21m  
+ Rest of the World: 0.07m  


How about Sonic Heroes? On all three platforms, Japan's sales were eclipsed by North America and Europe.

(note: forum formatting resizes the images, so you may need right-click them and open them in a new tab to see the numbers clearly)

qi6kWSs.png

In Japan, Heroes didn't even sell a million units across all platforms.

 

 

How about Sonic 06?

IQekRf2.png

Nope.

 

Unleashed?

YsH9yY4.png

Not even close.

 

Colors?

NQtp0dS.png

Did not perform well.

 

Generations?

lrNORTI.png

Low sales again.

 

Lost World?

V5hTPoU.png

Barely a blip on the radar.

 

Sonic is not a popular series in Japan. Most Sonic games don't even sell a million units there; Indeed, most don't even sell half that number. So marketing Sonic to supposed Japanese tastes hasn't worked in the past and doesn't make much sense from a business perspective now. 

If Japan "loves" modern Sonic, then I'd like to see sales figures for games they hate. 

Uh.... I'm not sure if people will take vgchartz numbers as valid claims. Welp.

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